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Brandon Lloyd's unsportsmanlike conduct penalty


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Lloyd threw the ball too hard given the situation . . . anyone that does not see that, well just doesn't get it . . . coupled with the fact that he looked at the official and then just shuffle away without even an apology got the ire of the ref . . . perhaps the ref could of went up to him and gave him a warning given the place on the field and the importance of the game . . .

but, out of respect and shall i say sportmanship, you lightly toss the ball to the ref, you guys have seen it a 1000 times the balls has some kind of loft to it, or you throw it underhand so it has a loft too, whatever . .. but there never a line drive, at least that close to the ref, you seen line drives maybe when there are like 10 yards apart, but not that close . . or if they have already made eye contact . . . .

What are you talking about? You are the one who just doesn't get it. Lloyd flipped the ball, giving it some backspin, to the ref. There was no line drive. The issue is that the Official clearly wasn't ready for the ball and misjudged it. Watch the replay again. It's plain as day.

also too the ref was not ready for that kind of throw and had to track down the ball . . . a simple little i am sorry would of solved the problem . . .

If the ref wasn't ready, how is that Lloyd's problem? It's not.

Do i think the ref should of thrown the flag, probably not as i can't really recall a penatly in that situation, but then again the never seen a guy line drive a ball to a ref 8 feet away who was not really ready for it, can't handle it and the player walks away like nothing happened . . . outof respect you hold teh ball look for an official, make eye contact and then lightly toss it to him . . . you don't zing the ball without eyecontact then walk away like you are the bees knees . . .

EDIT: i think Troy Brown got a similar penalty, and interestingly got it went he broke the record for most receptions as a Pats, and it was less harmless and really a mistake, if i remember right he looked at the ref as he was walking in from the side lines then look back and walked to the huddle and toss the ball to the ref and either hit him on the head or it went over his head or something and it drew a flag . . .

What "line drive"? Again, you are acting like Lloyd went into a wind-up and threw the ball the way Brady does to Welker on a short crossing route. That just didn't happen. Again, you clearly aren't able to judge the speed that Lloyd flipped the ball because it wasn't that quick at all..

EDIT: Troy Brown got an unsportsmanlike penalty when he broke the record because of a "group celebration" Not because he flipped the ball back to the ref.
 
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If the ref wasn't ready, how is that Lloyd's problem? It's not.

It's only his problem because a sensitive ref can throw a flag. I'd guess if he said "Oops, sorry bout that man" he probably wouldn't have been penalized. The ref threw it just as Lloyd walked past him, not immediately after the throw
 
Apparently this is the ref who threw the flag at BL. Can anyone put this pic in context?

x2_107dec42
Referee Tackles NFL Player (Great Quality) - YouTube
 
What are you talking about? You are the one who just doesn't get it. Lloyd flipped the ball, giving it some backspin, to the ref. There was no line drive. The issue is that the Official clearly wasn't ready for the ball and misjudged it. Watch the replay again. It's plain as day.



If the ref wasn't ready, how is that Lloyd's problem? It's not.



What "line drive"? Again, you are acting like Lloyd went into a wind-up and threw the ball the way Brady does to Welker on a short crossing route. That just didn't happen. Again, you clearly aren't able to judge the speed that Lloyd flipped the ball because it wasn't that quick at all..

EDIT: Troy Brown got an unsportsmanlike penalty when he broke the record because of a "group celebration" Not because he flipped the ball back to the ref.

i see you missed the point . . . Lloyd got up and was 9 feet from the ref and let me phrase it this way transferred the ball to the ref such that it moved parallel to the ground as opposed to an arc that started whilst it left his hand went up and then came down again when it reach the ref . . . now i would of thought it be easier to simply say threes words "line drive" and "arc" to desribe the movement of the ball, buti guess i was wrong . . . and please dont confuse line drive with a 80 mph movement of the ball . . . the ball went straight at the ref regardless of what label we want to put on the particular type of movement . . .

the problem is that the ref was not ready for this kind of movement, 95 times out fo 100 the players will arc the ball, flip it with a back spin so it floats into the refs has . . . and the refs are expecting this and therefore will gauge his catch accordingly . . . however if teh ball comes at him quicker the ref will misplay it, but it is not his fault as he was not expected it to come at him that fast and that is why it hit him on his left shoulder as opposed to floating down into his expecting hands . . .

now think logically for a moment . . . you and I are in your back yard 9 feet apart and I float 19 footballs to you that have an arc to them . . . then on 20th one i transferred the ball to you in staight line and you miss play it, is it your fault? ? ? Most people who either have play football or a basically understanding of physics will agree that the 20th ball will get to you quicker than the first 19 for two reasons, 1) the shortest distance between two points is a line and 2) if a ball is moving horizontally as oppose to along a arc, the former is moving faster . . . and given these teo is that too difficult to understand why one, in close proximaty to the other, could misjudge an unexpected throw and not be able to carrol it . . .

now the above is a hell lot of words that I did not think was necessary to get my point accross that Lloyd transferred the ball quicker that what is normally done and as such if one does something not normal it not the fault of the recipient . . .

could the ref had looked away, sure, but the combination of the unexpectd throw, teh ball landing behind the ref and no apology from from Lloyd drew a flag . . . had lloyd simply raised his hand in apology there would of been no flag . . .

and again for me, a stern talking too was the right call and not a flag, but at the same time I can understand where the ref was coming from . . .

and getting to Troy Brown, i remember it as a flipped back to the ref . . . basically it was innocent, when troy threw the ball he had turned his head away from the side judge and ball either went over his head or hit him in the haead . . . for a year so after the incident Troy Brown would always get ribbed about the penalty . . .

and as for the ref not being ready, the player has to do one of two things, wait for him to be ready and/or float the ball to the ref like is done 95 times out of 100 . . . bottom line the ref is ready for a certain transfer and it is the responibility of player to conduct that kind of transfer . . . and if in the excitment/adrenilin/anger of the moment you can't do that, than a simply rasing of the hand is in order . . .
 
Leave the ball on the ground , unless we are in the gimmick offense. The ref made a bad call. Loyd did nothing wrong. It was a horse **** call.
 
i see you missed the point . . . Lloyd got up and was 9 feet from the ref and let me phrase it this way transferred the ball to the ref such that it moved parallel to the ground as opposed to an arc that started whilst it left his hand went up and then came down again when it reach the ref . . . now i would of thought it be easier to simply say threes words "line drive" and "arc" to desribe the movement of the ball, buti guess i was wrong . . . and please dont confuse line drive with a 80 mph movement of the ball . . . the ball went straight at the ref regardless of what label we want to put on the particular type of movement . . .

the problem is that the ref was not ready for this kind of movement, 95 times out fo 100 the players will arc the ball, flip it with a back spin so it floats into the refs has . . . and the refs are expecting this and therefore will gauge his catch accordingly . . . however if teh ball comes at him quicker the ref will misplay it, but it is not his fault as he was not expected it to come at him that fast and that is why it hit him on his left shoulder as opposed to floating down into his expecting hands . . .

now think logically for a moment . . . you and I are in your back yard 9 feet apart and I float 19 footballs to you that have an arc to them . . . then on 20th one i transferred the ball to you in staight line and you miss play it, is it your fault? ? ? Most people who either have play football or a basically understanding of physics will agree that the 20th ball will get to you quicker than the first 19 for two reasons, 1) the shortest distance between two points is a line and 2) if a ball is moving horizontally as oppose to along a arc, the former is moving faster . . . and given these teo is that too difficult to understand why one, in close proximaty to the other, could misjudge an unexpected throw and not be able to carrol it . . .

now the above is a hell lot of words that I did not think was necessary to get my point accross that Lloyd transferred the ball quicker that what is normally done and as such if one does something not normal it not the fault of the recipient . . .

could the ref had looked away, sure, but the combination of the unexpectd throw, teh ball landing behind the ref and no apology from from Lloyd drew a flag . . . had lloyd simply raised his hand in apology there would of been no flag . . .

and again for me, a stern talking too was the right call and not a flag, but at the same time I can understand where the ref was coming from . . .

and getting to Troy Brown, i remember it as a flipped back to the ref . . . basically it was innocent, when troy threw the ball he had turned his head away from the side judge and ball either went over his head or hit him in the haead . . . for a year so after the incident Troy Brown would always get ribbed about the penalty . . .

and as for the ref not being ready, the player has to do one of two things, wait for him to be ready and/or float the ball to the ref like is done 95 times out of 100 . . . bottom line the ref is ready for a certain transfer and it is the responibility of player to conduct that kind of transfer . . . and if in the excitment/adrenilin/anger of the moment you can't do that, than a simply rasing of the hand is in order . . .

lmao what the hell. Are you serious? You just wrote an essay over something so tiny.
 
i see you missed the point . . . Lloyd got up and was 9 feet from the ref and let me phrase it this way transferred the ball to the ref such that it moved parallel to the ground as opposed to an arc that started whilst it left his hand went up and then came down again when it reach the ref . . . now i would of thought it be easier to simply say threes words "line drive" and "arc" to desribe the movement of the ball, buti guess i was wrong . . . and please dont confuse line drive with a 80 mph movement of the ball . . . the ball went straight at the ref regardless of what label we want to put on the particular type of movement . . .

the problem is that the ref was not ready for this kind of movement, 95 times out fo 100 the players will arc the ball, flip it with a back spin so it floats into the refs has . . . and the refs are expecting this and therefore will gauge his catch accordingly . . . however if teh ball comes at him quicker the ref will misplay it, but it is not his fault as he was not expected it to come at him that fast and that is why it hit him on his left shoulder as opposed to floating down into his expecting hands . . .

now think logically for a moment . . . you and I are in your back yard 9 feet apart and I float 19 footballs to you that have an arc to them . . . then on 20th one i transferred the ball to you in staight line and you miss play it, is it your fault? ? ? Most people who either have play football or a basically understanding of physics will agree that the 20th ball will get to you quicker than the first 19 for two reasons, 1) the shortest distance between two points is a line and 2) if a ball is moving horizontally as oppose to along a arc, the former is moving faster . . . and given these teo is that too difficult to understand why one, in close proximaty to the other, could misjudge an unexpected throw and not be able to carrol it . . .

now the above is a hell lot of words that I did not think was necessary to get my point accross that Lloyd transferred the ball quicker that what is normally done and as such if one does something not normal it not the fault of the recipient . . .

could the ref had looked away, sure, but the combination of the unexpectd throw, teh ball landing behind the ref and no apology from from Lloyd drew a flag . . . had lloyd simply raised his hand in apology there would of been no flag . . .

and again for me, a stern talking too was the right call and not a flag, but at the same time I can understand where the ref was coming from . . .

and getting to Troy Brown, i remember it as a flipped back to the ref . . . basically it was innocent, when troy threw the ball he had turned his head away from the side judge and ball either went over his head or hit him in the haead . . . for a year so after the incident Troy Brown would always get ribbed about the penalty . . .

and as for the ref not being ready, the player has to do one of two things, wait for him to be ready and/or float the ball to the ref like is done 95 times out of 100 . . . bottom line the ref is ready for a certain transfer and it is the responibility of player to conduct that kind of transfer . . . and if in the excitment/adrenilin/anger of the moment you can't do that, than a simply rasing of the hand is in order . . .

Responsibility of the player to conduct a transfer? That's going a bit overboard don't you think? This isn't a surgeon performing open heart surgery expecting the metzenbaum scissors to be gently placed in his hand by the surgical assistant, it's a ref on a field of collisions and bodies smashing.
Facts:BL threw the ball to the Ref. It was not a hard throw but was harder than a toss. Players commonly throw the ball to the ref after a play is over. The Ref was not ready and/or could not react quickly enough to catch the throw and the ball hit him. The ref didn't like that and threw a flag for USC.

Yet CLEARLY there was not an unsportsman like intention at all. BL was not throwing the ball at the ref because he wanted to ring his bell for being a lousy ref (despite the fact he was a lousy ref). To the contrary, the intention was sportsman like. The player is attempting to help the ref not have to track the ball down on the ground somewhere.

Lastly, take a look at the USC penalties that are commonly called......then compare that to the call on BL. Guess what, not even comparable. Further, take a look at the game and how soooo much was obviously being let go by the Refs. Now go back to BL's call and see how a ticky tack call in a game like that had NO business being called.....period!
 
lmao what the hell. Are you serious? You just wrote an essay over something so tiny.

I made my point concisely earlier in post #59 and then a poster responded to my post going to each on of my points in detial and i respond in detail . . . what is the problem?

And if it is so tiny as you say why is there a thread at all on this forum, if is was so tiny and irrelevant why would there be a thread with over 60 posts in less than a week . . . certainly it is big enough for fans to pay attention to, no?
 
I made my point concisely earlier in post #59 and then a poster responded to my post going to each on of my points in detial and i respond in detail . . . what is the problem?

And if it is so tiny as you say why is there a thread at all on this forum, if is was so tiny and irrelevant why would there be a thread with over 60 posts in less than a week . . . certainly it is big enough for fans to pay attention to, no?

I agree, it was disrespectful. Whether it deserved a call, I don't know, but you shouldn't flick the ball at a ref without looking.

The ref is not going out for a pass, it's not his responsibility to be ready to have something flicked at him.
 
. . . you and I are in your back yard 9 feet apart and I float 19 footballs to you that have an arc to them . . . then on 20th one i transferred the ball to you in staight line and you miss play it, is it your fault? ? ?

Absolutely.
 
I agree, it was disrespectful. Whether it deserved a call, I don't know, but you shouldn't flick the ball at a ref without looking.

The ref is not going out for a pass, it's not his responsibility to be ready to have something flicked at him.

No, but it is his responsibility to spot the ball. It's reasonable to assume the ball's coming at some point. There's no way that deserved 15 yards, because there was clearly no intent.
 
No, but it is his responsibility to spot the ball. It's reasonable to assume the ball's coming at some point. There's no way that deserved 15 yards, because there was clearly no intent.

So you're saying the ref should have turned his head toward the quarterback and caught the pass? That's silly. He's not playing.

If Lloyd wants to flick the ball in the direction of the ref and hope he's ready for it, he's going to take the chance it hits him on the head and he decides to call a penalty.

Are you arguing there isn't a penalty called unsportsmanlike conduct, or that our receivers should just flick balls towards the ref without concern about whether it might hit them on the head, risking a penalty at a crucial time, instead of courteously handing the ball over?

If there's a reason this is a great thing to do, I'm listening.
 
Responsibility of the player to conduct a transfer? That's going a bit overboard don't you think? This isn't a surgeon performing open heart surgery expecting the metzenbaum scissors to be gently placed in his hand by the surgical assistant, it's a ref on a field of collisions and bodies smashing.
Facts:BL threw the ball to the Ref. It was not a hard throw but was harder than a toss. Players commonly throw the ball to the ref after a play is over. The Ref was not ready and/or could not react quickly enough to catch the throw and the ball hit him. The ref didn't like that and threw a flag for USC.

Yet CLEARLY there was not an unsportsman like intention at all. BL was not throwing the ball at the ref because he wanted to ring his bell for being a lousy ref (despite the fact he was a lousy ref). To the contrary, the intention was sportsman like. The player is attempting to help the ref not have to track the ball down on the ground somewhere.

Lastly, take a look at the USC penalties that are commonly called......then compare that to the call on BL. Guess what, not even comparable. Further, take a look at the game and how soooo much was obviously being let go by the Refs. Now go back to BL's call and see how a ticky tack call in a game like that had NO business being called.....period!

First off, this is a ref we are talking about in a professional sport and that is how we need to view this issue . . . and refs are not on the same level as the players . . . plain and simple . . . there is a certain protocol that needs to be followed between the ref and players . . .

There are two things that we know about in the NFL, 1) you can not touch an official in any capacity and 2) there is penalty for placing the ball on the ground such that is moves away and the ref has to run down the ball . . . but even without that it basic human dignity and respect that when you transfer something to another and it is drop and whether its 25%, 50% or 75% your fault you make an apology . . . and given the respect and protocol between a player and official if it is even partially your fault you apologize . . .

now many times i have seen refs drop balls, but all occur when ball is floated to him and or is on target . . . the ref has his hand in front of him and missed the ball and it drops at his feet or it might float high over his head and he and has to reach up for it, and so on . . . okay it happens . . .

but in BL case the ref hands in front of him waiting for the ball to be tossed with his hands (which are in front of him at the numbers if you will) and BL who is only like 9 feet from him delievers a ball to the refs left shoulder, BL who is a professional football player can't hit his the numbers of a person 9 feet from him? ? ? really ? ? ? so yes the ball was off line and yes the ball came to the ref faster than expected and yes the ball landed behind the ref and yes that same ref now has to chase down the ball and yes BL walked away with indifferent body language . . . so was the throw 100% on BL no, but the miss was not 100% on the ref either . . .

but we must understand in a sport in which you can't touch the ref, there is a penalty assessed when a ball is dropped in a manner in which the refs have to track teh ball down, that when you throw the ball to the official who is not expecting that type of throw and it is also off target and due the this the ref is able to corral it, you dont walk way indifferent . . .

now was BL being mean, no . . . did he intend the ball to be missed no, but he cant walk away indifferent when a mishap happens . . .

it is kind of like baseball and the plate umpire and there is a bad call . . .now you yell, swear, ***** and maon all you want if you are looking at your bat and making normal preswing motions in the batter box (btw Ricky Henderson made a science out of this) but if you look at the ump and stomp your foot once or wave you hand in the air, which is a normal innocent act, it going to draw the ire of the ump (cause you are embarrasing the ump in front of the crowd) you might get tossed even if you say more innocent things than the other way . . .

and like with BL, innocent as he is, when you get up (after a frustrating drop i mght add) and throw the ball at the refs left shoulder and not in the direction of his open waiting hands and ref can't corrall it, you don't walk away indifferent, its just gives an impression that it your problem ref not mine . . .

and again, i repeat i think that a stern talking to was in order and not a 15 yard drive kller in the red zone . . .but at the same time what BL did was on the bubble and sometimes refs wont give you the benefit of the doubt

even though a lot of rough stuff was going on in the game, the penatly was, like the player and the ump, one of respect and not one of force . . . and hence one of sportsmanship . . .
 
If Lloyd wants to flick the ball in the direction of the ref and hope he's ready for it, he's going to take the chance it hits him on the head and he decides to call a penalty.

The ref was ready. He had his hands up for the ball, and just missed it.

brandon-lloyd.gif


Any ref who would throw a flag on this ... in the redzone in a home playoff game, no less ... is extraordinarily sensitive.
 
First off, this is a ref we are talking about in a professional sport and that is how we need to view this issue . . . and refs are not on the same level as the players . . . plain and simple . . . there is a certain protocol that needs to be followed between the ref and players . . .

There are two things that we know about in the NFL, 1) you can not touch an official in any capacity and 2) there is penalty for placing the ball on the ground such that is moves away and the ref has to run down the ball . . . but even without that it basic human dignity and respect that when you transfer something to another and it is drop and whether its 25%, 50% or 75% your fault you make an apology . . . and given the respect and protocol between a player and official if it is even partially your fault you apologize . . .

now many times i have seen refs drop balls, but all occur when ball is floated to him and or is on target . . . the ref has his hand in front of him and missed the ball and it drops at his feet or it might float high over his head and he and has to reach up for it, and so on . . . okay it happens . . .

but in BL case the ref hands in front of him waiting for the ball to be tossed with his hands (which are in front of him at the numbers if you will) and BL who is only like 9 feet from him delievers a ball to the refs left shoulder, BL who is a professional football player can't hit his the numbers of a person 9 feet from him? ? ? really ? ? ? so yes the ball was off line and yes the ball came to the ref faster than expected and yes the ball landed behind the ref and yes that same ref now has to chase down the ball and yes BL walked away with indifferent body language . . . so was the throw 100% on BL no, but the miss was not 100% on the ref either . . .

but we must understand in a sport in which you can't touch the ref, there is a penalty assessed when a ball is dropped in a manner in which the refs have to track teh ball down, that when you throw the ball to the official who is not expecting that type of throw and it is also off target and due the this the ref is able to corral it, you dont walk way indifferent . . .

now was BL being mean, no . . . did he intend the ball to be missed no, but he cant walk away indifferent when a mishap happens . . .

it is kind of like baseball and the plate umpire and there is a bad call . . .now you yell, swear, ***** and maon all you want if you are looking at your bat and making normal preswing motions in the batter box (btw Ricky Henderson made a science out of this) but if you look at the ump and stomp your foot once or wave you hand in the air, which is a normal innocent act, it going to draw the ire of the ump (cause you are embarrasing the ump in front of the crowd) you might get tossed even if you say more innocent things than the other way . . .

and like with BL, innocent as he is, when you get up (after a frustrating drop i mght add) and throw the ball at the refs left shoulder and not in the direction of his open waiting hands and ref can't corrall it, you don't walk away indifferent, its just gives an impression that it your problem ref not mine . . .

and again, i repeat i think that a stern talking to was in order and not a 15 yard drive kller in the red zone . . .but at the same time what BL did was on the bubble and sometimes refs wont give you the benefit of the doubt

even though a lot of rough stuff was going on in the game, the penatly was, like the player and the ump, one of respect and not one of force . . . and hence one of sportsmanship . . .

Holy ******* ****.
 
The ref was ready. He had his hands up for the ball, and just missed it.

brandon-lloyd.gif


Any ref who would throw a flag on this ... in the redzone in a home playoff game, no less ... is extraordinarily sensitive.

Maybe they should make him a defensive back then.

The bottom line is...he isn't playing. He is in charge, an authority figure. He can call penalties and he did. If you want our players to just have a flippant attitude toward refs the whole game, they are going to draw stupid penalties that might cost us games, is that what you want?

Of course, the only thing players can do to prevent this is to walk over to the refs and hand the ball over, or as close to that as possible, maintaining a courteous demeanor.

I don't like stupid penalties myself, and rather than hoping the people in charge of the game will overlook these things, I would instruct my players to just not be ****s to the referees because they are in a mood.

It's like you're sitting in jail going, gee that cop was unduly sensitive. Well, maybe you ran into the most sensitive cop on the force, maybe not. Bottom line is, you're in jail. Maybe you didn't need to be, but it's too late now, isn't it?:bricks:
 
Maybe they should make him a defensive back then.

The bottom line is...he isn't playing. He is in charge, an authority figure. He can call penalties and he did. If you want our players to just have a flippant attitude toward refs the whole game, they are going to draw stupid penalties that might cost us games, is that what you want?

Of course, the only thing players can do to prevent this is to walk over to the refs and hand the ball over, or as close to that as possible, maintaining a courteous demeanor.

I don't like stupid penalties myself, and rather than hoping the people in charge of the game will overlook these things, I would instruct my players to just not be ****s to the referees because they are in a mood.

It's like you're sitting in jail going, gee that cop was unduly sensitive. Well, maybe you ran into the most sensitive cop on the force, maybe not. Bottom line is, you're in jail. Maybe you didn't need to be, but it's too late now, isn't it?:bricks:

Jesus, you keep going on and on like Lloyd fired an overhand laser at the guy and continued to glare at him. You actually said he was being a **** to the ref. He flipped the freakin' ball and headed back to the line. That happens dozens of times per game. The penalty was an absolute overreaction, especially given the circumstances.
 
Jesus, you keep going on and on like Lloyd fired an overhand laser at the guy and continued to glare at him. You actually said he was being a **** to the ref. He flipped the freakin' ball and headed back to the line. That happens dozens of times per game. The penalty was an absolute overreaction, especially given the circumstances.

He's supposed to hand the ball to the ref. He was discourteous and drew a penalty deservedly.

If you think it's worth getting penalties because your players can't be bothered to courteously hand the ball over that's fine.

A little underhand toss from a couple feet away is probably considered the same as handing the ball over.
 
The ref was ready. He had his hands up for the ball, and just missed it.

Yes, he was ready. I think he was expecting a lighter toss that you normally see from players. He muffed it and then looked at Lloyd who didn't seem to care. Then he decided to toss the flag. Pereira twitted about BL walking away with disdain, which I got a kick out of. Mr. Mindreader from afar. But it goes to the idea of the ref taking into account the player's attitude and not just the toss itself.

The Troy Brown penalty being mentioned was not when he broke the receiving record. I think it was during a Denver game where Brown caught a pass and was walking away from the ref near the sidelines. Brown tossed the ball back and an opposing player walked into the path. The ball hit the player and the ref called a USC penalty. Later in the game, the ref commented to Brown about getting that one wrong. BB later said the call was by the book and intent didn't matter.

Some advice dealing with refs from Coach Esterhaus, "Let's be careful out there."

I think we all get frustrated by inconsistencies in these things. Gronk (or Gonk) getting flagged for his spike close to another player, while Marvin Harrison spiking a ball into Vrabel's face is ok.
 
He's supposed to hand the ball to the ref. He was discourteous and drew a penalty deservedly.

If you think it's worth getting penalties because your players can't be bothered to courteously hand the ball over that's fine.

A little underhand toss from a couple feet away is probably considered the same as handing the ball over.

So, if he tossed it underhand and walked away with some imagined disdain, it'd be okay.

I look forward to the additional JUGS-toting ref that Goodell apparently needs to put on the field to measure velocity and determine if it's above the acceptable speed. They can work with the on-field body language expert to assess the player's unvoiced level of animosity toward the ref to determine the penalty. 15 yards for disdain, but only 10 for a general brush-off.

Say you're the ref ... you would've thrown the flag?
 
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