Brandon Graham

[mayoclinic]

Based on the Sr Bowl measurements, Graham only has 30.5 inch arms. That's pretty short. Arm length is a major factor for OLBs, so this has to be a red flag.

That's part of why I see him as a SILB more than an OLB. He's got a great motor, is very physical, is adept at taking on blockers, can stack and shed, can set the edge and play the run, and can generate terrific interior pressure. But he doesn't have fabulous outside speed, he's short (6'1") with very short arms (30.5"), and I haven't yet seen that he has loose enough hips to drop into coverage or particularly good ability to play in space. Put him inside at SILB and those weaknesses are minimized, and his strengths maximized. At 3-4 OLB, he brings a lot of plusses but also a lot of liabilities.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Based on the Sr Bowl measurements, Graham only has 30.5 inch arms. That's pretty short. Arm length is a major factor for OLBs, so this has to be a red flag.

A playeer who has power and uses his hands really well, can over come the disadvantage of short arms and it appears Graham may be that kind of player. But regarless, you have to know that once an NFL tackle gets his hands on Graham, it is game over, the most Graham can do at that point is resort to bull rushing and at 260 plus pounds, I wish hinm luck with that.

In a lot of ways Graham is like Thomas, but without the speed or coverage skills.

At the end of the day, can you see Graham setting a hard edge against former team mate Jake Long? I can't. Can you see Graham taking on a pulling Alan Faneca or setting a hard edge against Fergusion? I can't. How many TE's could Graham cover in space? What happens when San Diego isolates Gates on him? TD, we lose.

I think BB passes on Graham for the same reasons he passed on Woodley.

 

[alvinnf]

A playeer who has power and uses his hands really well, can over come the disadvantage of short arms and it appears Graham may be that kind of player. But regarless, you have to know that once an NFL tackle gets his hands on Graham, it is game over, the most Graham can do at that point is resort to bull rushing and at 260 plus pounds, I wish hinm luck with that.

In a lot of ways Graham is like Thomas, but without the speed or coverage skills.

At the end of the day, can you see Graham setting a hard edge against former team mate Jake Long? I can't. Can you see Graham taking on a pulling Alan Faneca or setting a hard edge against Fergusion? I can't. How many TE's could Graham cover in space? What happens when San Diego isolates Gates on him? TD, we lose.

I think BB passes on Graham for the same reasons he passed on Woodley.

James Harrison says Hi!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

James Harrison says Hi!

Last time I looked, Harrison played in Pittsburgh, however when Pittsburgh waived Harrison a few years ago, BB passed on him.

Harrsion is a great self made player in that defense, but teams have success runing at him and BB just won't stand for that in his defense.

 

[mayoclinic]

Last time I looked, Harrison played in Pittsburgh, however when Pittsburgh waived Harrison a few years ago, BB passed on him.

Harrsion is a great self made player in that defense, but teams have success runing at him and BB just won't stand for that in his defense.

And Pittsburgh waived Harrison more than once before he became a star, with no one being "smart" enough to pick him up.

 

[mayoclinic]

In a lot of ways Graham is like Thomas, but without the speed or coverage skills.

At the end of the day, can you see Graham setting a hard edge against former team mate Jake Long? I can't. Can you see Graham taking on a pulling Alan Faneca or setting a hard edge against Fergusion? I can't. How many TE's could Graham cover in space? What happens when San Diego isolates Gates on him? TD, we lose.

I think BB passes on Graham for the same reasons he passed on Woodley.

I agree, unless you can project Graham inside to SILB. I think he's a great DE with phenomenal intangibles who just doesn't project well to 3-4 OLB in our scheme.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Graham's my biggest binky in the draft. I'd have no problem if we took him in with our first pick. and if he's avaialbe in the 2nd there's no reason not to take him

 

[patsfan55]

But you don't know how they're going to turn out. That's the point. Meriweather was rated more highly as a prospect than Woodley by a good bit in 2007 - many considered him a top 10 talent who slipped because of character issues. Woodley was at best a borderline late 1st/early 2nd talent. Just because Woodley has done well for Pittsburgh doesn't mean that we "blew it" by not taking him over Meriweather. And we had a huge hole at safety in 2007.

If you go back to the archives you'll see MichiganDave (haven't seen him in a while) and myself to a lesser degree talk up Woodley to no end. I definitely felt Meriweather was the right pick at the point, but hoped we'd take Woodley with the second first rounder. Personally if I had been in charge of the Pats draft that year that's what I would have done at the time. This time last year it looked as though I would have been stupid to pass up on the chance of Mayo. Now, not so sure.

 

[alvinnf]

And Pittsburgh waived Harrison more than once before he became a star, with no one being "smart" enough to pick him up.

There wasn't any real tape on Harrison. He hadn't played yet. Once he did, he blew up. With his balance and low center of gravity. People are rethinking the prerequisites for OLB. The thing that is so intriguing about Graham is how good he is against the run. He plays with similar lean to Harrison and looks like he has great balance. I am not sure he is as explosive. But in our scheme you could line him up at end on passing downs. He comes down the line so well, he would be great against the draw in sub packages.

 

[bucky]

That's part of why I see him as a SILB more than an OLB. He's got a great motor, is very physical, is adept at taking on blockers, can stack and shed, can set the edge and play the run, and can generate terrific interior pressure. But he doesn't have fabulous outside speed, he's short (6'1") with very short arms (30.5"), and I haven't yet seen that he has loose enough hips to drop into coverage or particularly good ability to play in space. Put him inside at SILB and those weaknesses are minimized, and his strengths maximized. At 3-4 OLB, he brings a lot of plusses but also a lot of liabilities.

If that's what you're drafting him for, how early do you take him? You're basically talking about converting a DE to ILB with the hopes that he'll become a 2 down player for you. That's like 6th-7th round material.

 

[mayoclinic]

If that's what you're drafting him for, how early do you take him? You're basically talking about converting a DE to ILB with the hopes that he'll become a 2 down player for you. That's like 6th-7th round material.

I'd take him 2nd round if I thought he could make that conversion. I thought Robert Ayers and Larry English would also have made good SILBs and would have considered either in that range as well. But it all depends how confident the Pats are that he could make the switch.

Do I suspect someone will take him higher as a 4-3 DE? Yes. Would I take him higher as a 3-4 OLB? No.

 

[BlackFrancis]

I'd take him 2nd round if I thought he could make that conversion. I thought Robert Ayers and Larry English would also have made good SILBs and would have considered either in that range as well. But it all depends how confident the Pats are that he could make the switch.

Do I suspect someone will take him higher as a 4-3 DE? Yes. Would I take him higher as a 3-4 OLB? No.

I really like Graham as a 3-4 OLB and even after his impressive showing at the Senior Bowl, I have to agree with you. He might be a holy terror as a pro but you just do not take conversion projects in the first round of the draft.

 

[alvinnf]

I really like Graham as a 3-4 OLB and even after his impressive showing at the Senior Bowl, I have to agree with you. He might be a holy terror as a pro but you just do not take conversion projects in the first round of the draft.

I think if you start him off as a 43 end and transition him upright he would be great. In sub packages he's got his hand on the ground in the 34. We don't have a 5 tech. on weakside, so you reduce the front on that side and let him play with his hand down. I think the major concern people have with an end his height is getting swallowed up in the run game. This guy does such a good job turning everything inside. He's aggressive and relentless. We could find work for that. Personnel wise we are as close to a 43 team as a 34 team at this point. So I don't see it as a project. I see it as getting a player.

 

[The_Riddler]

This kid is Dwight Freeney Part 2. Edge talent like this cannot be projected as any kind of an NFL project. Let's drop the "project" tag right now. He showed the world that he has a motor that won't stop now and won't stop at the next level. He is Mr. Freeney and we all know what Freeney means to that Colt defense.

Here's the problem though: He has just played himself right out of our area code at 22. He is now in the 12-17 range and he would literally have to roll over, suck his thumb, hug his Pooh blankie and take a nap at the combine during the cone drills for that to go any lower.

We have to do whatever it takes (and yes that means parting with the top of the 2's) to get this talent into our young defense, he is the missing piece.

On another note: Mayoclinic, I think everyone on the site is pretty thankful for your unbelievable insight on the draft, college talent and the Pats. I'm serious when I say this, the Pats have been losing scouts left and right, you might want to consider a career change at some point under the BB apple tree. We all know alot of the media (radio and tv) come to this site for print ideas, radio topics (on the ride home - wink,wink and late night Sports shows), but I truly believe a couple of the apples that I just mentioned come to the site also and it's insight like yours that makes this a desired "check point" for many. Thanks !

 

[mayoclinic]

This kid is Dwight Freeney Part 2. Edge talent like this cannot be projected as any kind of an NFL project. Let's drop the "project" tag right now. He showed the world that he has a motor that won't stop now and won't stop at the next level. He is Mr. Freeney and we all know what Freeney means to that Colt defense.

Here's the problem though: He has just played himself right out of our area code at 22. He is now in the 12-17 range and he would literally have to roll over, suck his thumb, hug his Pooh blankie and take a nap at the combine during the cone drills for that to go any lower.

We have to do whatever it takes (and yes that means parting with the top of the 2's) to get this talent into our young defense, he is the missing piece.

That's not a problem. We let him go 12-17 or wherever else he goes. I wouldn't take him at 22.

Graham doesn't have Freeney's elite speed or 1st step, and he just doesn't project well to our system. He's a nice pass rushing DE, and will probably go top 20, but I wouldn't take him for the Pats before #42. I certainly don't think he's the "missing piece", and I think he's worth more to other teams than to the Pats. If I were Tampa Bay, for example, I'd try to trade my 2nd and 3rd to move up and get him.

 

[MaineMan]

I think if you start him off as a 43 end and transition him upright he would be great. In sub packages he's got his hand on the ground in the 34. We don't have a 5 tech. on weakside, so you reduce the front on that side and let him play with his hand down. I think the major concern people have with an end his height is getting swallowed up in the run game. This guy does such a good job turning everything inside. He's aggressive and relentless. We could find work for that. Personnel wise we are as close to a 43 team as a 34 team at this point. So I don't see it as a project. I see it as getting a player.

Absolutely agree. Well stated!

 

[DaBruinz]

One of the things that impressed me about Graham is that he seemed to be in position for the plays on his side and he never gave up backside pursuit on plays away from him.

He also seemed to diagnose the plays well so he was in the position he needed to be in.

 

[MaineMan]

That's not a problem. We let him go 12-17 or wherever else he goes. I wouldn't take him at 22.

Graham doesn't have Freeney's elite speed or 1st step, and he just doesn't project well to our system. He's a nice pass rushing DE, and will probably go top 20, but I wouldn't take him for the Pats before #42. I certainly don't think he's the "missing piece", and I think he's worth more to other teams than to the Pats. If I were Tampa Bay, for example, I'd try to trade my 2nd and 3rd to move up and get him.

FWIW, I've been following seven different guys reporting independently from Senior Bowl practices and each has remarked on Graham's "phenomenal, tremendous, explosive" first step.

Secondly, I'm no longer certain "our system" is what it used to be. I genuinely feel that 2009 represents BB "tinkering" and moving the defense much closer to a 43/34 hybrid that will feature DE/OLB tweeners like TBC, for example - or Brandon Graham.

 

[chris66]

I dont know if you guys watched any of the senior bowl practices, but Graham beat every olineman in the one on one drills this week. The guy has a motor and can flat out play. With all the 3-4 teams in the back of the draft. I dont think he makes it to the second round.

 

[cstjohn17]

That's not a problem. We let him go 12-17 or wherever else he goes. I wouldn't take him at 22.

Graham doesn't have Freeney's elite speed or 1st step, and he just doesn't project well to our system. He's a nice pass rushing DE, and will probably go top 20, but I wouldn't take him for the Pats before #42. I certainly don't think he's the "missing piece", and I think he's worth more to other teams than to the Pats. If I were Tampa Bay, for example, I'd try to trade my 2nd and 3rd to move up and get him.

That is part of the problem, the Pats system needs adjusting. This is the same bs we have been hearing forever. Back to Woodley / Merriweather / Mayo, all have been good picks:
Mayo - Defensive Rookie of the year
Merriweather - probowl
Woodley - probow

Of the three only Woodley has been a game changer, but this is related to his position. OLB/DEs are impact players, game changers. Safeties and ILBs rarely are. That is why I would have drafted Woodley ahead of Mayo / Merriweather, all things being equal some positions Safety, ILB, TE, Guard have less value than premium positions QB, OT, OLB/DE, CB. The premium positions cost more in free agency and if players are about equal it is better to take the player at the premium position.