Brainstorming......Ryan Mallet.

[IllegalContact]

That, and people's fixation with suits. I believe if Hoyer had a name that sounded like a General, had great hair, dated a model, etc, teams would have a much higher opinion of him.

LOL........yeh, maybe

 

[Off The Grid]

A few observations...

1 ~ It goes without saying that trading Mallett now would be "Selling Low."

2 ~ It also goes without saying that it's highly unlikely that Coach Bill will do so.

3 ~ That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him in an instant, for whatever the Market bears.

4 ~ Mallett's only realistic destination ~ due to the bad judgment of the team's leadership ~ is Miami, as I pointed out, several pages ago. Those who suggest that he would be an awful match for CleveLand are obviously 100% correct, and it's a little bizarre that that had to be pointed out in the first place.

5 ~ Seems to me that CleveLand is, conversely, Hoyer's most feasible destination, should we trade'm, this offseason, for much the same reason that it isn't for Mallett.

6 ~ Hoyer, himself, is the proof ~ see: 2009 ~ that Mad Bill has the guts to go with only a Rookie QB behind Brady...and Hoyer was far less of a Field General than I believe Kellen Moore to be. So the notion that Mad Bill isn't willing to take that route has already been proven to be 100% false.

7 ~ The fact that Hoyer didn't get a commitment at a 2nd Round Tender by NO means means he wouldn't fetch a 3rd Rounder on the Trade Market, a popular Myth. When the top QB's go off the board in a couple days, it is only then that his Trade Value will manifest itself.

8 ~ As I've already pointed out, Hoyer's Maximum Comp Value is a 2014 3rd Rounder, which equals a 2012 5th Rounder. I'd listen to offers.

 

[Coach42]

I'm really surprised how many people think we can trade Mallet for anything. What has he done in the last 12 months that makes him anymore attractive than last year? I think he needs to show something, against another teams 1st string D, before anyone would even entertain offers. The same thing goes for Hoyer. While we all like him he hasn't shown anything in a meaningful NFL game. Both of these situations are nothing like the Cassel situation. Cassel was coming off of a season of 15 starts and 11 wins neither Hoyer or Mallet having anything remotely close to that.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I'm really surprised how many people think we can trade Mallet for anything. What has he done in the last 12 months that makes him anymore attractive than last year? I think he needs to show something, against another teams 1st string D, before anyone would even entertain offers. The same thing goes for Hoyer. While we all like him he hasn't shown anything in a meaningful NFL game. Both of these situations are nothing like the Cassel situation. Cassel was coming off of a season of 15 starts and 11 wins neither Hoyer or Mallet having anything remotely close to that.

Yet again, it's what Mallett hasn't done that's important. He was a 1st round talent that fell because of character concerns, have there been any indications that he's a problem? Any drug or strip club arrests?

As far as Cassel goes, you do know he was owed a bunch of money to whoever traded for him, which lowered his value. Mallett has another 3yrs on his deal at a sweatheart rate. That should make him very affordable to an interested suitor.

 

[Off The Grid]

I'm really surprised how many people think we can trade Mallet for anything. What has he done in the last 12 months that makes him anymore attractive than last year? I think he needs to show something, against another teams 1st string D, before anyone would even entertain offers. The same thing goes for Hoyer. While we all like him he hasn't shown anything in a meaningful NFL game. Both of these situations are nothing like the Cassel situation. Cassel was coming off of a season of 15 starts and 11 wins neither Hoyer or Mallet having anything remotely close to that.

Charlie WhiteHurst says "Hi."

Charlie Whitehurst NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[patfanken]

.

1 ~ It goes without saying that trading Mallett now would be "Selling Low."

I would disagree (I'm sure you are shocked) Right now is the best time to trade Mallet for the following reasons.

1. He only one year away from the draft reports that had him rated as a first round talent with "character issues". His one year here, despite not getting on the field, answered most of those character issues. So right now he's a young QB with first round talent who no longer has "character issues"

2. My fear is that another year as the #3 will erode his value, as that 2011 draft evaluation becomes less relevant

3. A team that trades for him now will have him under a great contract for 3 more years. The longer they wait the more he will cost.

4. I still haven't seen much in draft reports that makes me think that Weeden and Osweiler are better prospects than Mallet. And for that matter I'd say you can throw in Tannihill as well.

2 ~ It also goes without saying that it's highly unlikely that Coach Bill will do so.
I'd be shocked if Cleveland offered him the #37 pick in this draft for Mallet and BB didn't take it.

3 ~ That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him in an instant, for whatever the Market bears.
Mallet is worth more than the 74th pick the Pats used to get him

4 ~ Mallett's only realistic destination ~ due to the bad judgment of the team's leadership ~ is Miami, as I pointed out, several pages ago. Those who suggest that he would be an awful match for CleveLand are obviously 100% correct, and it's a little bizarre that that had to be pointed out in the first place.
I get it, you don't like the pick. If you remember I didn't either. But it was made by a guy a lot smarter than either of us. Now we can only make the best of it....and that means getting a better pick than the one we used

5 ~ Seems to me that CleveLand is, conversely, Hoyer's most feasible destination, should we trade'm, this offseason, for much the same reason that it isn't for Mallett.

I agree that Hoyer would fit well in Cleveland but he wouldn't bring nearly as much as Mallet. Mallet is still that "first round talent", but now without the questions. Hoyer is still the over achieving UDFA, who has 43 passing attempts in THREE years, and not one in a meaningful situation.

And this crap about Cleveland's offense not fitting Mallet's skills is exactly that....crap. Lets see hasn't he just spent a year learning how to throw short passes, make quick decisions, He also had a 64% completion rate at Arkansas playing against the best D's in college. BTW- What ever Cleveland's offense was last season, WC or whatever.....it sucked. Maybe its time for a change.

6 ~ Hoyer, himself, is the proof ~ see: 2009 ~ that Mad Bill has the guts to go with only a Rookie QB behind Brady...and Hoyer was far less of a Field General than I believe Kellen Moore to be. So the notion that Mad Bill isn't willing to take that route has already been proven to be 100% false.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Clearly the Pats like Hoyer, and hopefully he can bring some value when/if he leaves. Perhaps he's destined to be Brady's long term back and the transition QB after he leaves I have no idea

7 ~ The fact that Hoyer didn't get a commitment at a 2nd Round Tender by NO means means he wouldn't fetch a 3rd Rounder on the Trade Market, a popular Myth. When the top QB's go off the board in a couple days, it is only then that his Trade Value will manifest itself.

Again you lost me, or you are responding to someone else and I can't infer your point.

8 ~ As I've already pointed out, Hoyer's Maximum Comp Value is a 2014 3rd Rounder, which equals a 2012 5th Rounder. I'd listen to offers.

I think you are right about Hoyer's value. He may be under rated as a QB, but perception rules. Getting Mallet off the books for a 2nd round pick allows us to trade up into the low teens for Barron or whomever and still have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds

 

[patfanken]

I'm really surprised how many people think we can trade Mallet for anything. What has he done in the last 12 months that makes him anymore attractive than last year?

He has shown that many of the "character issues" that dropped him from the first round down to the 74th pick were unfounded. Today he is the QB who was a "first round talent" but without all the question marks.

If you weight the 2nd tier QB prospects (Weeden, Osweiler, and even Tannihill), Mallet looks awfully good, plus has a year in one of the better NFL programs. So its easy to say Mallet hasn't done anything in the NFL. Well neither has any of those guys either. Tannihill has only something like 15 starts in College and is extremely raw

Understand I'm basing my value of Mallet in a comparison with QB's who will be taken in the 2nd round. Mallet is a much better choice than those players

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Clearly the Pats like Hoyer, and hopefully he can bring some value when/if he leaves. Perhaps he's destined to be Brady's long term back and the transition QB after he leaves I have no idea

If he's content just to be the long-term backup, I don't think he belongs here in Foxboro.

One of the reasons the Patriots were comfortable starting 2006 with Cassel as TFB's only backup was that he approached practice every day with the idea of trying to be better than Brady. And some days he was.

 

[supafly]

I'm really surprised how many people think we can trade Mallet for anything. What has he done in the last 12 months that makes him anymore attractive than last year? I think he needs to show something, against another teams 1st string D, before anyone would even entertain offers. The same thing goes for Hoyer. While we all like him he hasn't shown anything in a meaningful NFL game. Both of these situations are nothing like the Cassel situation. Cassel was coming off of a season of 15 starts and 11 wins neither Hoyer or Mallet having anything remotely close to that.

I also agree that many here seem to be overvaluing the potential trade value of the backups right now. Not quite sure why..

I believe that Hoyer offers much more value to us, since he has been here and he knows the system etc.

Mallett will at least be looked at and evaluated. That has not happened too much since he came in with no knowledge of anything NEP related in a shortened offseason and got pretty much zero playing time in the preseason so far.

 

[Avenger]

Could probably move Hoyer to Cleveland for picks 100, 139 and 211. Cleveland had multiple picks in rounds 4, 5 and 6, so they might be more inclined to spring that than an earlier round pick.

 

[Off The Grid]

.

And this crap about Cleveland's offense not fitting Mallet's skills is exactly that....crap.

Just because you can't grasp a concept doesn't make it "crap", Ken.

Insulting someone because their conversation is beyond your capacity is what a 4 year old does.

Good luck with that.

 

[VrabelJr]

I'm really shocked that everyone is so eager to move Mallett. We've seen how important it is to have back ups in this league. A couple years ago we went the entire year with 2 QBs on the roster. BB keeping Mallett says a lot about the kid.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm really shocked that everyone is so eager to move Mallett. We've seen how important it is to have back ups in this league. A couple years ago we went the entire year with 2 QBs on the roster. BB keeping Mallett says a lot about the kid.

To be fair to all involved, him keeping Mallett simply says "We don't want to waste a third-round draft pick."

Keeping him and Hoyer, though, says a lot about both of them.

 

[UK_Pat37]

To be fair to all involved, him keeping Mallett simply says "We don't want to waste a third-round draft pick."

Keeping him and Hoyer, though, says a lot about both of them.

We don't really know who's getting kept because the final cuts haven't been made and there's still plenty of time to trade whether it be in the draft or before the deadline.

I thought it spoke volumes that the Pats didn't tender Hoyer with a first round pick. The difference in cost between a first and second round tender is nothing...if they were that desperate to keep Hoyer they'd have first round tendered him.

As said before, Hoyer is a nice success story bu they picked up a QB in Mallett whom Belichick described as an NFL starter in his rookie year. Ken has this weird belief they wasted a 3rd round pi ck on Mallett with the sole aim to trade him...which is utter BS because no team wastes a pick that high believing they can get more for him down the line when no one has any idea how he's going to pan out. You pick a player with the aim of fitting him into your scheme somewhere down the line.

You don't get rid of a 3rd round pick after his first year. It's just not good business. Ken, you aren't going to get more than what you paid for a guy with less than a game's Preseason experience...simple fact. You're going to struggle to get the second round tender for Hoyer who has proven himself on much more of a level than Mallett has.

Anyone who thinks Mallett being traded is good football logic just doesn't know football. I'm sorry.

 

[Snake Eyes]

You don't get rid of a 3rd round pick after his first year. It's just not good business. Ken, you aren't going to get more than what you paid for a guy with less than a game's Preseason experience...simple fact. You're going to struggle to get the second round tender for Hoyer who has proven himself on much more of a level than Mallett has.

Anyone who thinks Mallett being traded is good football logic just doesn't know football. I'm sorry.

Ok, and this is because every other team out there always makes good football decisions? Never underestimate a team that is stupid and desperate. How much did the Raiders pay for a washed up Carson Palmer?

 

[UK_Pat37]

Ok, and this is because every other team out there always makes good football decisions? Never underestimate a team that is stupid and desperate. How much did the Raiders pay for a washed up Carson Palmer?

But he had thrown an NFL regular season pass. I'm saying I don't think it;'s good business to give up a player you spent a 3rd round pick on and who projects to pan out for you.

If Mallett pans out the way we wish, then we could have lucked right out. It's hard to find top range NFL passers and you'd be stupid to let this guy slip. Hoyer hasn't got the arm for a McDaniels system IMO...he's best suited for a west coast style of offense which the Pats will not be doing under McD. We have seen uncanny similarities in our system to a west coast style since he left before and that's why Hoyer has excelled. He makes quick decisions and precision throws. He has the ability to air it out a few times a game but not the arm to play a vertical scheme which is where we're headed again under McD I believe. Mallett does have the arm IMO and more than enough football IQ.

A team may well be willing to give up a 2nd round pick but I wouldn't listen to any offers for Mallett...Hoyer definitely. I think Miami should be pushing for Hoyer...he'd be a better fit than Tannehill.

It's not good business on the Pats side of things IMO...regardless of what the other team is offering and I'm just not sold that a team would be stupid enough if they let him slip all the way to the third round last year!

 

[IllegalContact]

To be fair to all involved, him keeping Mallett simply says "We don't want to waste a third-round draft pick."

Keeping him and Hoyer, though, says a lot about both of them.

or, more likely, that there is not enough to be said....which is expected for mallett since there was a lockout during his rookie camp, and OTA's

but hoyer has been around for awhile......so he knows how to execute the scheme a little better, but especially in his case, experience will only get you so far

 

[IllegalContact]

Ok, and this is because every other team out there always makes good football decisions? Never underestimate a team that is stupid and desperate. How much did the Raiders pay for a washed up Carson Palmer?

yes, but they also got a perennial all-pro for a late 1st round pick

 

[Snake Eyes]

yes, but they also got a perennial all-pro for a late 1st round pick

A Perennial all-pro?

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

Palmer was a good but also very inconsistent player, damaged goods after the Steelers caved in his knee. The Raiders paid a ton for a guy whose career was behind him rather than in front of him.

Mallett would have been perfect for them, they speed guys to facilitate the downfield pass, which Mallett is very good at throwing, and I doubt him being a 6'7 Eminem would bother tham.

Their selection of Palmer, especially considering their other options, was a terrible waste of resources.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Most insightful post in this thread... Bumped the repeated misfit for Cleveland's system posts the OP fails to acknowledge not to mention the increasing value of a veteran system backup given Brady's value and age posts. It's as if some here slept through 2008... And for those seeking value for Hoyer, his presence represents value and if he does walk away and get a nice deal to start for some other franchise in 2013 we will get a comp pick for him that is probably close to what you could trade him for at this juncture anyway.

Thanks, man.