Big Ben accused of sexual assault

[LearningToFly]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

So were you personally posting how Moss might be innocent?

Sorry to ask something real in response to your wild hypotheticals.

Wild hypotheticals? It was a story reported on both TMZ and PFT. If you want to blame anyone blame them.

And no, I wasn't on here defending Moss, I'm not a regular poster here. I've never had anything against Moss, always wanted the Steelers to sign him when they had a chance, the Patriots made one of the biggest trades in NFL history in retrospect to get him at such a low cost.

 

[apple strudel]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

And I responded that it's not par for the course there's a story that comes out that the woman making these claims was supposedly under psychiatric care for some failed internet relationship. Rumors of being under psychiatric care isn't a common tactic or a common attempt at a smear job.

:ugh: Really? Painting the woman as crazy/unstable, a slut, or a gold-digger is all de rigueur in these cases. If you don't understand that then you're beyond help. But I'm a nice guy, so I'll re-iterate what has already been said:

Indeed, it's a standard part of the playbook for anyone who is sued in civil court. The plaintiff almost always is attacked, and a female plaintiff claiming sexual misconduct invites a healthy dose of what became known as the "nuts and sluts" defense whenever someone directed allegations of sexual misbehavior at a certain former President who eventually had no choice but to admit his deeds, as to at least one former partner.

Questions arise regarding McNulty's psychiatric care | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[JDSal45]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Do hotels really have cameras in every room? Jeez.

Only Erin Andrews' room

J D Sal

 

[LearningToFly]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

You should just stop. First, no where does it say she never went to the cops. The article says that they don't have info on that. You can go to the cops, and they don't have to do anything about it. Secondly, most rape victims don't go to the cops.

READ AGAIN: Most rape victims don't go to the cops.

I know most rape victims don't go to the cops, it still doesn't somehow automatically validate her claims, which is all I've been arguing. Most people that have been raped don't file a civil suit a year after the fact either. So what?

Next, you're taking someone's claim about her getting psychiatric help verbatim! Here's why I doubt what you're claiming. Why a psychiatrist? You're saying she was mentally unstable from interaction with a phony internet acquaintance? Or was she simply seeing a psychoanalyst? Which many Americans tend to do.

I was just reporting what was posted at both TMZ and PFT, who originally broke the story. They're reporting that sources say she was under psychiatric care at the time. Take it up with Florio if you don't believe that to be the case.

The other stuff about Lemieux and Bettis is simply irrelevant, unless you want me to mention that athletes who have raped (Mike Tyson) must mean that all athletes accused of this are rapists.

Not necessarily. My main point here was to counter someone and I was saying at this point she's likely not seen as being credible or a sympathetic figure. Those past cases against major sports stars, most of which have been proven to be false accusations, support that claim that she won't be seen as credible until more evidence comes out other than just her word. The public usually doesn't buy these stories when they first come out.

 

[LearningToFly]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

:ugh: Really? Painting the woman as crazy/unstable, a slut, or a gold-digger is all de rigueur in these cases. If you don't understand that then you're beyond help. But I'm a nice guy, so I'll re-iterate what has already been said:



Questions arise regarding McNulty's psychiatric care | ProFootballTalk.com

So are you claiming that both PFT and TMZ are trying to attack McNulty by supposedly making up and running with a story that she was under psychiatric care at the time?

Name me ONE instance where someone has been accused of being under psychiatric care in a situation like this one.

They didn't just make it up. PFT and TMZ aren't Big Ben's defense counsel, they have no interest either way.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

TMZ gets all of its info by paying people for tips, and its network of informants is almost entirely in Los Angeles (TMZ stands for the Thirty Mile Zone around LA), with some presence in NYC too, I believe. It would be a mistake to claim much in the way of journalistic integrity/factchecking for TMZ, which gets its scoops almost entirely because it ignores journalistic standards that exist to ensure the validity of information (confirming with a second source, never paying for tips). Just because TMZ routinely breaks celebrity gossip news does not make it a credible source.

Just remember that TMZ is currently reshaping entertainment news because it was essentially the first to figure out that, in today's culture, speed of information matters more than credibility (I would love to make some social commentary on Los Angeles in general based on this, but I'll refrain since this really isn't the place for it). Great for getting site traffic, but doesn't really hold up when you're talking about its validity as a source of information.

 

[apple strudel]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

So are you claiming that both PFT and TMZ are trying to attack McNulty by supposedly making up and running with a story that she was under psychiatric care at the time?

Name me ONE instance where someone has been accused of being under psychiatric care in a situation like this one.

They didn't just make it up. PFT and TMZ aren't Big Ben's defense counsel, they have no interest either way.

Yeah, you're not getting it. It's not the reporting of the issue, it's using the information in any way as either a defense of Ben or an attack on the credibility of the accuser. :ugh: Of course, depending on the source, the reporting of the issue potentially becomes a proactive PR defense, as well.

 

[LearningToFly]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

TMZ gets all of its info by paying people for tips, and its network of informants is almost entirely in Los Angeles (TMZ stands for the Thirty Mile Zone around LA), with some presence in NYC too, I believe. It would be a mistake to claim much in the way of journalistic integrity/factchecking for TMZ, which gets its scoops almost entirely because it ignores journalistic standards that exist to ensure the validity of information (confirming with a second source, never paying for tips). Just because TMZ routinely breaks celebrity gossip news does not make it a credible source.

Just remember that TMZ is currently reshaping entertainment news because it was essentially the first to figure out that, in today's culture, speed of information matters more than credibility. Great for getting site traffic, but doesn't really hold up when you're talking about its validity as a source of information.

Oh no doubt about that take, I can't argue that. At the same time, I hold PFT in the same light... if I remember right, they once reported Terry Bradshaw had been killed in a car wreck and have had various other shining journalism moments like that hehe. They're definitely in a completely different universe than the CNN's of the world.

But if we're going to take everything we've heard so far at face value, her claims and her story about him leading her into his hotel room and raping her and then asking about the cameras, we might as well hold the follow up news about her mental health and those around her questioning it in the same light.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Well her being under psychiatric care for a made up relationship with a fictitious American soldier over the internet seems pretty damn specific and not just some random "nuts and sluts" slur campaign. If true it kills a lot of her credibility, which she didn't have much to begin with.

First of all, its unlikely that the psychiatric information will be allowed into court because it would be heresay evidence. And if its one of the co-defendants in the suit making the claim, then it actually supports the "nuts and sluts" slur campaighn. Also, I am fairly certain that neither McNulty or her psychiatrist would have to testify regarding that information as it is protected under doctor/patient privilege.

Now, why do you claim she didn't have much credibility to begin with? Because she didn't file criminal charges? 60% (or more) of all rapes go unreported. And only 6% of the defendants in a criminal rape case actually spend time behind bars. Not to mention that there is all the ridicule and scrutiny that women are subjected to when they do report them.

In a civil case, there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty. Its the defendant vs. the plaintiff and which one is likely to be more believable.

 

[JDSal45]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Actually, I think the psychiatric care is actually PART of her case. Lets say, for the sake of argument, she is (based on the pictures) 30-32 y.o. Otherwise stable. Normal mom, no issues, no medications, 7 year employment history, good education. Lots of friends. Plenty of people to say she is a great person, normal, etc.

Suddenly she needs psyciatric care 2 months after a very traumatic event. It actually SUPPORTS her case. She had never needed it before. That is why she put it in her complaint and acknowledged it in her complaint. It probably, in her lawyer's estimation, actually supports her allegations.

Which is why you see the counter-claim now.....no, it wasn't because of Big Ben, it was this other situation that caused her to breakdown.

We just have to wait and see.

J D Sal

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

So are you claiming that both PFT and TMZ are trying to attack McNulty by supposedly making up and running with a story that she was under psychiatric care at the time?

Name me ONE instance where someone has been accused of being under psychiatric care in a situation like this one.

They didn't just make it up. PFT and TMZ aren't Big Ben's defense counsel, they have no interest either way.

First off, All PFT did was report what TMZ was reporting. Secondly, TMZ makes its money on Gossip mongering. So, they DO have an interest in this case because its a celebrity and reporting on it gets them notoriety.

As for the psychiatric care. That could hurt Big Ben as much as help. Why? Because it could be seen as the celebrity picking on someone who is already mentally unstable knowning that no one would believe her if she went and cried rape.

 

[LearningToFly]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Yeah, you're not getting it. It's not the reporting of the issue, it's using the information in any way as either a defense of Ben or an attack on the credibility of the accuser. :ugh: Of course, depending on the source, the reporting of the issue potentially becomes a proactive PR defense, as well.

Listen, I know that often the defendants in these cases will try and slander the accuser, go through their backgrounds and dig what they can, ect... anything to discredit them.

But c'mon, how often is it that it's being reported that the accuser in a case like this was under actual psychiatric care at the time and that her fellow co-workers questioned her mental health which is why some of them are being named in the suit as well? I've never heard of such a thing. That's not just some common slanderous talk, if true it would severely damage her already shaky credibility.

 

[JDSal45]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

First off, All PFT did was report what TMZ was reporting. Secondly, TMZ makes its money on Gossip mongering. So, they DO have an interest in this case because its a celebrity and reporting on it gets them notoriety.

As for the psychiatric care. That could hurt Big Ben as much as help. Why? Because it could be seen as the celebrity picking on someone who is already mentally unstable knowning that no one would believe her if she went and cried rape.

Or maybe she wasn't mentally unstable before. I'd imagine rape is pretty traumatic. She had worked at Harrah's for 7 years. So I assume she was a pretty decent employee, stable, at the least.

Going to a psychiatric hospital could be just depression. Which plenty of people suffer, including probably current members of the Steelers. Its a ridiculous, old, and pretty much uneducated opinion to conlude she is thus "crazy or psychotic" or a "loon" as LTF stated. It could have been just depression. And I believe she is claiming the rape caused it.

J D Sal

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

All this he said she said BS. Could Ben have raped her maybe. Could she be lying just to get money maybe!! The courts will decide. If he really did do it then he might be suspended from the NFL(where would the steelers be then?). I am taking the wait and see aproach to see if these allegations are true or not!! But, until then, to piss off steeler fans and for the smack talk the steeler fans been talking about "spygate" we should call Ben, Ben Rapistberger just to piss off those steeler fans!! Give them a taste of their own medicine!!

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Listen, I know that often the defendants in these cases will try and slander the accuser, go through their backgrounds and dig what they can, ect... anything to discredit them.

But c'mon, how often is it that it's being reported that the accuser in a case like this was under actual psychiatric care at the time and that her fellow co-workers questioned her mental health which is why some of them are being named in the suit as well? I've never heard of such a thing. That's not just some common slanderous talk, if true it would severely damage her already shaky credibility.

Are you a civil attorney? Do you realize just how many civil lawsuits there are that never get to trial because the parties settle?

And, in almost every high profile civil case, the accuser's credibility immediately starts being slandered by the defense. And they use many different outlets for it. It doesn't have to be just her supposed mental state at the time.

Personally, its all too neat that TMZ was able to get this out as quickly as they did.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Or maybe she wasn't mentally unstable before. I'd imagine rape is pretty traumatic. She had worked at Harrah's for 7 years. So I assume she was a pretty decent employee, stable, at the least.

Going to a psychiatric hospital could be just depression. Which plenty of people suffer, including probably current members of the Steelers. Its a ridiculous, old, and pretty much uneducated opinion to conlude she is thus "crazy or psychotic" or a "loon" as LTF stated. It could have been just depression. And I believe she is claiming the rape caused it.

J D Sal

Exactly, JD. What stinks is how TMZ so readily had their information available.

Hell, for all we know, the co-workers who are claiming about her psychiatric care were responsible for it. They could have very easily been taunting her during her time there.. We don't know THEIR history. I find it amazing that people automatically assume they are telling the truth. Hell, they could even be lying about her because she turned them down when they hit on her. We don't know.

For people to say her credibility was nearly non-existent from the get go is just laughable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Or maybe she wasn't mentally unstable before. I'd imagine rape is pretty traumatic. She had worked at Harrah's for 7 years. So I assume she was a pretty decent employee, stable, at the least.

Going to a psychiatric hospital could be just depression. Which plenty of people suffer, including probably current members of the Steelers. Its a ridiculous, old, and pretty much uneducated opinion to conlude she is thus "crazy or psychotic" or a "loon" as LTF stated. It could have been just depression. And I believe she is claiming the rape caused it.

J D Sal

Let me just state what should have been obvious: One need not be "stable" to be an employee.

 

[JDSal45]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

Let me just state what should have been obvious: One need not be "stable" to be an employee.

I meant as an employee. Maybe not, but the 7 years at the joint would be probably the only indication we have as to that issue one way or the other. And that she was apparently allowed to interract, even be the main go between for Harrahs, with celebrity penthouse guests.

J D Sal

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

For someone that is supposedly against it, you're doing a good deal of assuming and speculating here.

I've never said Ben didn't do it. I've never claimed that he's 100% not guilty here. This may have happened, he may have raped her, I'm not denying that completely.

But to act like I'm just being some fanboy because I'm skeptical of this woman's claim given she's only filing civil charges a year after the fact and the same sites that broke the story are reporting there are sources who say the woman was under psychiatric care from some made up internet relationship is being a bit biased as well on your part. Logically, it's hard to give much credibility to this AT THIS POINT. That's all I'm saying. On the surface, this just looks like a money grab from some crazy woman. Until there's more evidence that he did this, other than her saying she was raped a year ago and she wants to be financially reimbursed for it, I'm going to be skeptical.

The fact that you believe the stories coming from TMZ and not casting ANY doubt on what their claiming just supports you being a fanboy Big Ben Ball washer. Sorry..

The fact that you are already making a judgement that this lacks credibility shows you aren't open minded and that you're talking out your arse claiming you are.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Big Ben Accused of Sexual Assault

I understand I'm going to get dragged through the mud considering I had posted a grand total of once before joining in on this thread, that's just how it goes.

You are "getting dragged through the mud" because of the dumb posts you are making, not because of the number of posts you've made.

But my only point here was to pass on what I'd read at TMZ about this woman being under psychiatric care for some failed internet relationship that was with someone who didn't even exist. Say what you want about TMZ, but they often get the scoop on news stories like this, just recently they were the ones who broke the Michael Jackson story and gave the details on that.

This isn't Men in Black where the tabloids have the best ivestigative reporters on earth. This is reality where TMZ has credibility issues. BTW, TMZ did NOT break the Michael Jackson story. They picked it up from the local LA CBS affiliate.

I just take the info for what it is, and was only passing on something I hadn't seen posted on this thread at the time. I thought it was an interesting development in this story, and I wasn't looking to get into some argument over me being some crazed fanboy defending my hero's honor. I understand this is a Patriots message board and there's naturally going to be a different reaction on here than some Steelers message board, it doesn't really bother or concern me that much, it's just the way it is.

You clearly didn't just take the information for what it is and you certainly didn't bother to consider the source. In fact, you made it a point to offer up opinions claiming that this woman's credibility wasn't great to begin with, but with nothing to support your claim.