Belichick: 'Outburst' and plane incidents complete fabrications

[kkpat]

Re: Belichick: 'Outburst' and plane incidents complete frabrications

For a "variety of reasons".......

No. That is mis-characterization of coach's words.

It is actually for " a combination of reasons"

 

[emoney_33]

Sure, you go with it not being fair to Randy to make him just a decoy and it was the right thing to do to make sure Randy played in a place where they can best use him in his contract year. They don't trade Randy if they don't think he is more of detriment to this team than a third round pick next year.

So Seymour was more of a detriment to the team than a 1st round pick in 2 years? Or maybe the 1st round pick was determined to be better for the team long term enough so to suffer a year without a guy they decided they wouldn't/couldn't re-sign. Seriously, you are arguing everything with your pre-determined assumption that Moss was a 'problem'. Your evidence for this is pretty weak, and mainly 3rd-party hearsay.

LOL! And the meter maid he hit just imagined it. Everyone who watched him moon the Packer fans were just imagining that too. Don't go to ludicrious lengths to defend the guy. Burton was there and he saw it. You didn't. He wasn't the only one who reported it.

Thanks for showing your true colors and proving you have a longstanding bias against Moss.

It takes two to tango in a trade. Someone has to give them what they want to trade him. Glenn shot himself in the foot because of that because he did, D-I-D, did make an arse of himself both by leaving the stadium before the game and stop to get a hot dog followed by making a bigger arse of himself on Sport Final. All of which happened AFTER THE TRADING DEADLINE. Both the him leaving the stadium and his Sports Final interview happened October 21, 2001 which was about a week after the trade deadline.

So the 3rd round pick is actually worth something?

Ok, you got me. It is clear the Patriots had to take care of Randy. Who cares what it will do for the Pats season as long as Randy gets his long term deal somewhere else. Admit it, you were wrong about the guy. He shoots his way out of town when isn't happy. He isn't the first diva WR and won't be the last.

I never claimed the Patriots were trying to do all they could for Randy, it is YOU who is claiming that there is 0 chance it had anything whatsoever to do with the decision. I am simply saying there is A LOT to this and it's not just "trade malcontent ASAP".

How was I wrong about the guy, he never stopped working hard and helping the team. I was wrong about what I thought BB/Pats would value him at (i.e. I thought they'd extend him).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I can't.

If something had happened on the plane, BB wouldn't have said "That story is a complete fabrication. I never spoke to Randy on the plane."

He would have said the story wasn't accurate, but not that it was a complete fabrication.

Brady's 3 broken ribs was a complete fabrication... They were hairline fractures...

We know he never spoke to Randy on the plane because Randy declined to speak with him. I doubt in his 30 odd years of coaching that constitutes a confrontation in Bill's book. Chilly said yesterday he spoke with ownership on MONDAY about acquiring Moss. So the deal was already in the works before the team took the field for MNF. Randy didn't anticipate that. Randy was in denial when he got the call from Bill on Tuesday.

Former players with few exceptions will tell you that one of the great things about Bill is you always know where you stand with him - even though the media may be clueless. That is of course unless you are in denial. Randy wants to believe that he and Tom and Bill and the staff - they were all okey dokey... His issue is with the owner who won't let Bill extend him. BS... Bill can extend anyone he wants to. He consults ownership as a courtesy and to sign off on financials on a mega deal like Tommy's. Or on acquiring a former cancer... Moss needs to believe that Kraft didn't want him because if it was BB and Brady was onboard then the myth of the trancendant misunderstood talent who is also a good teamate and team leader who loves football and hasn't lost a step starts to evaporate...

 

[Ron Sellers]

I meant fake moon. Or similate moon. Or whatever. Still it was one of his lowlights.

i think at that time it was a response to what green bay fans usually do when the vikings bus comes into lambeau or something - i heard dungy say...

Yep, apparently it is a tradition in Green Bay for Packer fans to moon the bus carrying the opposing team in and/or out of Lambeau. Moss was having a little fun with what was essentially a private joke between him and the Packer fans. Not surprisingly the national media made a mountain out of a molehill over the 'incident'. The result, in my opinion, is that it was made out to be a far bigger deal than it really was. In addition, I bet if you polled the rest of the nation with the exclusion of Minnesota and Wisconsin, probably about 20% of the people would tell you that Moss literally did moon the crowd, due to the way that story has been beaten to death.

 

[Rob0729]

So Seymour was more of a detriment to the team than a 1st round pick in 2 years? Or maybe the 1st round pick was determined to be better for the team long term enough so to suffer a year without a guy they decided they wouldn't/couldn't re-sign. Seriously, you are arguing everything with your pre-determined assumption that Moss was a 'problem'. Your evidence for this is pretty weak, and mainly 3rd-party hearsay.

Seymour was traded for a number of reasons different from Moss. First, the Pats were getting back a first round pick for a guy not likely to be around past that season. It isn't like the Pats unloaded Seymour and a seventh for a third a month into the season. Bad analogy.

Thanks for showing your true colors and proving you have a longstanding bias against Moss.

I don't like the guy, but I appreciated what he did. You shouldn't be talking about biases since you clearly have a bigger bias FOR the guy than I have against him.

So the 3rd round pick is actually worth something?

So you are saying that the Pats made the right move? The Pats got value for Moss. You support the trade? C'mon! Stop it. You hated this trade and thought the Pats got too little.

I never claimed the Patriots were trying to do all they could for Randy, it is YOU who is claiming that there is 0 chance it had anything whatsoever to do with the decision. I am simply saying there is A LOT to this and it's not just "trade malcontent ASAP".

How was I wrong about the guy, he never stopped working hard and helping the team. I was wrong about what I thought BB/Pats would value him at (i.e. I thought they'd extend him).

It may have been what is best for Randy, but it wasn't the Pats' motivation. You cannot show me one instance where the Pats made a roster move looking out for the best interest of the players getting traded or cut. The Pats don't work that way. In fact, most of the teams don't work that way. GMs do what is best for the team and will do so even if it isn't in the best interest of the player involved in the transaction. Please show me one instance where a team traded away a player and made the decision based even partially on the best interest of the player. It doesn't happen in sports. Future HOFers are unceremoniously dumped when their value diminishes. Give a call to the Jets and ask several of their players (Jason Taylor and LaDanian Tomlinson).

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, this is typical BB spin. BB may have forgotten "LateGate", but the fans haven't. And while it may not have been an "discipline issue", Moss was disciplined.

And Burton has brought out what happened during the Kick-off Dinner, the Week 1 Anthem Antics and the Week 1 Special Teams Huddle Antics. None of which BB acknowledged.

And, in all honesty, I think the Pats dealt Randy before they discipline became a bigger issue.

This pretty much nails it on the head. He probably also saw what Revis and a few others have seen as well, which is Moss (apparently) not giving 100% effort on plays. He was obviously unhappy with the way he was used in the offense, so the trade happened before it became a bigger issue. I just can't help but think that all of this could have been avoided, though. Oh well. Sh!t happens.

 

[Synovia]

Seymour was traded for a number of reasons different from Moss. First, the Pats were getting back a first round pick for a guy not likely to be around past that season. It isn't like the Pats unloaded Seymour and a seventh for a third a month into the season. Bad analogy.

Richard Seymour is younger than Randy Moss, and hence, worth more if a team is looking long term, which surely the Raiders are.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is the most sensible post I've read regarding the whole situation.

Minnesota was the one team they knew they could trade him to absent a new deal...and they weren't waiting around for the new deal.

 

[blackglass3]

Yep, apparently it is a tradition in Green Bay for Packer fans to moon the bus carrying the opposing team in and/or out of Lambeau. Moss was having a little fun with what was essentially a private joke between him and the Packer fans. Not surprisingly the national media made a mountain out of a molehill over the 'incident'. The result, in my opinion, is that it was made out to be a far bigger deal than it really was. In addition, I bet if you polled the rest of the nation with the exclusion of Minnesota and Wisconsin, probably about 20% of the people would tell you that Moss literally did moon the crowd, due to the way that story has been beaten to death.

In Philly last year, I did security for the Eagles/Giants game. The Eagles won big and afterwards the fans spit on and flipped off the bus carrying the Giants.

Call me crazy, but what Packer fans do and what Moss did are A-OK. Joe Buck is the one to blame for being a self righteous blowhard who doesn't like calling football games and dislikes Moss for Moss never kissing his ass. That was so NOT a big deal until Joe Buck wouldn't shut up about it.

 

[Kontradiction]

LOL! And the meter maid he hit just imagined it. Everyone who watched him moon the Packer fans were just imagining that too. Don't go to ludicrious lengths to defend the guy. Burton was there and he saw it. You didn't. He wasn't the only one who reported it.

FWIW, I was at the game, and I saw what Moss did during the Star Spangled Banner. I remember being pretty confused about it at the time, but I didn't have a bird's eye view of the situation. All I saw was his back turned. It makes pretty good sense now. If that situation was, indeed, correct, then I can't imagine the Raytheon situation being a fabrication.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Wait, you believe the media is telling the truth?

:bricks:

best line I have seen today......

 

[Rob0729]

Richard Seymour is younger than Randy Moss, and hence, worth more if a team is looking long term, which surely the Raiders are.

Not saying he wasn't. But the Pats were looking at a potential top 5 pick in this year's draft for Seymour. That is a steal for him. The Pats got a third for Moss and a seventh which isn't exactly a great deal if Randy isn't severely declining in talent or being too big of a problem to keep. The guy was a top WRs last year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I meant fake moon. Or similate moon. Or whatever. Still it was one of his lowlights.

I thought it was hilarious, in light of how it prompted Joe Buck to have a heart attack on the air. To each their own, I guess.

 

[Bella*chick]

FWIW, I was at the game, and I saw what Moss did during the Star Spangled Banner. I remember being pretty confused about it at the time, but I didn't have a bird's eye view of the situation. All I saw was his back turned. It makes pretty good sense now. If that situation was, indeed, correct, then I can't imagine the Raytheon situation being a fabrication.

So what exactly did he do during the Star Spangled Banner?

 

[TB=TD]

i think the people who are angry here need to discuss the real core issue here.

Bill had to make a choice between Bill O'Brien and Randy Moss.

Not that O'Brien could not work with Randy ... of course he could ... coaches don't have to personally like their players, all they need to do is have their attention and get the most out of them.

But now you have a player who needs production to get a new contract and you have coaching which sees it differently. So perhaps Moss was putting more and more pressure on O'Brien to get him the ball. So what happens if O'Brien caves in? he can't cave in ... not with a young team like this. A veteran team perhaps you get a few more balls Randy's way ... but not here and not now.

Perhaps the fans who are angry here are more mad about O'Brien and that he is still here.

Belichick made the right call here IMO ... everyone needs to be on board even when they are not personally happy. This is how you get players to step up ... by producing with their bodies and not with their mouths. Coaches who try to please players don't produce victories ... this is not the NBA.

Great points.........

 

[emoney_33]

Seymour was traded for a number of reasons different from Moss. First, the Pats were getting back a first round pick for a guy not likely to be around past that season. It isn't like the Pats unloaded Seymour and a seventh for a third a month into the season. Bad analogy.

A 1st 2 years down the road is roughly equivalent to a 2nd 1 year down the road. So 2nd vs. 3rd... really not an enormous difference there, for 4 more games for a guy they use the franchise tag on.

I don't like the guy, but I appreciated what he did. You shouldn't be talking about biases since you clearly have a bigger bias FOR the guy than I have against him.

I really don't, I just understand how to separate what I KNOW from what other people are TELLING me I should believe.

So you are saying that the Pats made the right move? The Pats got value for Moss. You support the trade? C'mon! Stop it. You hated this trade and thought the Pats got too little.

I never once dissed the trade, but thanks for telling me that I hated it...

I have always maintained that BB will always have much more information than me and I trust his decision to at the very least be UNDERSTANDABLE (if I had all the information). I am 100% confident that BB does what he -believes- is in the best interest of the team short term AND LONG term.

However just like the 2009 defense didn't get better by trading Seymour, the 2010 offense isn't getting better by trading Moss. Although with Brady leading the way and all the extra talent, I still feel confident that the team can compete just fine.

It may have been what is best for Randy, but it wasn't the Pats' motivation. You cannot show me one instance where the Pats made a roster move looking out for the best interest of the players getting traded or cut.

Patten, Vrabel, Seau, Bruschi... BB will not sacrifice the team's goals for a player but he sure as hell isn't the cold hearted emotionless robot that you want him to be.

The Pats don't work that way. In fact, most of the teams don't work that way. GMs do what is best for the team and will do so even if it isn't in the best interest of the player involved in the transaction. Please show me one instance where a team traded away a player and made the decision based even partially on the best interest of the player.

The Moss deal was a difficult decision according to BB. If the Lions were making the exact offer I think the scale tips in favor of BB declining. Since it were the Vikings I think it HELPED the scale tip the other way. Never said it was even a MAJOR factor in the decision. Why do you feel that BB doesn't suffer from the same human condition as the rest of the world?

Anyway, let's get away from a minor detail that is moot since by all accounts the Vikings are the only team that were offering anything and this wasn't a case of the Patriots shopping Moss around to the league. Why didn't BB use the Vikes offer as leverage to shop Moss around the league for a potentially better deal.

 

[Kontradiction]

So what exactly did he do during the Star Spangled Banner?

Again, I didn't exactly have a bird's eye view of the situation, so I can't speak to whether or not he was screaming and trying to gather his teammates, but he did turn his back and walk away from them DURING the Star Spangled Banner. I remember being confused (and a little offended) about that at the time, but I chalked it up to just not understanding what specifically was going on and moved on. Not to mention, they put on the "Monday Night Football" song on the video board immediately after that and got the crowd fired up.

 

[upstater1]

Yes I do and your logic was that they played him WITH the team because they wanted him AWAY FROM the team... If they wanted him away from the team no matter what, they send him home.

You don't get it.

I was saying they weren't risking much by having him play. They would risk losing a 3rd instead of a 5th if he got hurt.

Since Randy was acting up, I have no doubt they would have Glenn'd him.

 

[blackglass3]

Vince Wilfork just called Randy Moss "One of the best people I've ever met in my life".

Just saying.

 

[emoney_33]

You don't get it.

I was saying they weren't risking much by having him play. They would risk losing a 3rd instead of a 5th if he got hurt.

Since Randy was acting up, I have no doubt they would have Glenn'd him.

Well I disagree with everything you just said.