Belichick: 'Outburst' and plane incidents complete fabrications

[Deus Irae]

No one said there was and "Out Burst" on the plane. What was said was BB went to the back of the plane to talk to RM, and RM was unresponsive, he wouldn't talk to BB. Moss wouldn't talk/respond to team mates that went back to talk to him.

The "outburst" refers to the alleged incident with O'Brien, I believe.

 

[Bella*chick]

No one said there was and "Out Burst" on the plane. What was said was BB went to the back of the plane to talk to RM, and RM was unresponsive, he wouldn't talk to BB. Moss wouldn't talk/respond to team mates that went back to talk to him.

I didn't even read that, I only read the whole flight home was tense with Randy not talking to anyone.

Eh, there are about 1000 stories out there now, parts of some may be truth, maybe not. But there's certainly enough smoke for one to reasonably believe something happened and it hasn't been sunshine and lollipops with Randy for a little while now.

 

[Patsrock]

What are you suggesting, the Pats should have made Moss inactive for the game? Active but not see the field at all?

Yeah, that would have gone over really well - especially if the deal had fallen apart.

I would have made him inactive myself, If the reports are right about the trade being close I would have. If the deal falls apart could not be worse than it has been these past 2 days.

 

[reflexblue]

I didn't even read that, I only read the whole flight home was tense with Randy not talking to anyone.

Eh, there are about 1000 stories out there now, parts of some may be truth, maybe not. But there's certainly enough smoke for one to reasonably believe something happened and it hasn't been sunshine and lollipops with Randy for a little while now.

Its what ive read several times. That while he did get into it with BOB at half time on the plan it was just the opposite, he pouted. I thought it was common knowlage, and that it was twisted into outburst by the OP

 

[Rob0729]

Umm why not? Why on earth is that so out of the realm of possibility that it was part of the COMBINATION of reasons? Including Moss' impact this season being decreased due to a shift in strategy, his strong passion for his ideas which may conflict in some ways to O'Brien's, his not being part of future plans, the 3rd round pick which isn't as worthless as we believe and after re-thinking is more along the lines of expected value for a receiver for 12 games.

I also find it hilarious that some people are trying to accuse BB of lying just so they can stick with their pre-determined conclusion. Yep BB is just flat out lying that he never spoke to Moss on the plane, I mean he's known for direct lies like that.

If there's one thing I'm 99% confident in, is that there was no psychotic outburst that caused BB to grab the phone and rush him out.

First, I am very consistent with Belichick. I never believe what he says in a press conference. I doesn't matter if it has to do with Moss, injuries, what he feels about other teams or players, etc.

Second, it laughable to think that Moss' best interest had anything to do with this decision. Belichick doesn't work that way. Belichick always does what is best for the team and only the team. It is quite clear that Belichick felt Moss was or was going to be a problem with the team otherwise he would be here right now. If all he was the rest of the way was a decoy, he would still be here if his attitude wasn't an issue.

As for the O'Brien thing, that alone wouldn't be an issue, but there are other stories. Troy Brown said his sources had Randy blowing off Belichick on the plane ride back. Others have a blow up THE NEXT DAY. His attitude and actions at Kraft's charity dinner was disgraceful (who cares if it was a Kraft/Patriots sponsored event, it was to raise money for charity). Other reports have him being a problem for all season. His press conference after the first win was selfish and disrespectful.

I don't know what is true or not, but I am sure Belichick was sugar coating things. Some of what he said could be 100% true while other parts are bold faced lies. Obviously, he was not telling the truth because if Moss was never a problem as Belichick stated, he would be with the team today. Belichick gains nothing from telling the truth (in fact, if he bad mouthed Moss, it could backfire on him) and he would never do it.

I know you love the guy and thought he was going to retire a Patriot, but I saw a divorce coming. I did know if it was going to be messy or not, but Moss is the type of guy who has a shelf life with teams. He needs to be "appreciated" and tends to become a problem when he isn't. This is not all that uncommon with marquee WRs, but it is clear he shot his way out of town.

 

[Rob0729]

I didn't even read that, I only read the whole flight home was tense with Randy not talking to anyone.

Eh, there are about 1000 stories out there now, parts of some may be truth, maybe not. But there's certainly enough smoke for one to reasonably believe something happened and it hasn't been sunshine and lollipops with Randy for a little while now.

Here is what Troy Brown said:

"Apparently, Belichick came to the back of the plane to speak with Randy and Randy just pretty much ignored him and didn't respond to anything he had to say," said Brown.

But, Brown said, Belichick's were not the only words to fall on Moss' deaf ears.

"I guess there were a few other members of the team -- some front-office people and maybe some players -- that tried to talk to him, just talk to him in general, and he didn't respond to those guys, either," said Brown.

Brown: Moss ignored Belichick, others on flight

 

[IcyPatriot]

i think the people who are angry here need to discuss the real core issue here.

Bill had to make a choice between Bill O'Brien and Randy Moss.

Not that O'Brien could not work with Randy ... of course he could ... coaches don't have to personally like their players, all they need to do is have their attention and get the most out of them.

But now you have a player who needs production to get a new contract and you have coaching which sees it differently. So perhaps Moss was putting more and more pressure on O'Brien to get him the ball. So what happens if O'Brien caves in? he can't cave in ... not with a young team like this. A veteran team perhaps you get a few more balls Randy's way ... but not here and not now.

Perhaps the fans who are angry here are more mad about O'Brien and that he is still here.

Belichick made the right call here IMO ... everyone needs to be on board even when they are not personally happy. This is how you get players to step up ... by producing with their bodies and not with their mouths. Coaches who try to please players don't produce victories ... this is not the NBA.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Belichick: 'Outburst' and plane incidents complete frabrications

For a "variety of reasons".......

...to which no one who worked with or depended on Moss apparently had any input.

 

[Lampshade]

Here is what Troy Brown said:



Brown: Moss ignored Belichick, others on flight

"Apparently"

"I guess"

"Maybe"

I love Troy, but those 3 should be in neon warning lights.

 

[Rob0729]

i think the people who are angry here need to discuss the real core issue here.

Bill had to make a choice between Bill O'Brien and Randy Moss.

Not that O'Brien could not work with Randy ... of course he could ... coaches don't have to personally like their players, all they need to do is have their attention and get the most out of them.

But now you have a player who needs production to get a new contract and you have coaching which sees it differently. So perhaps Moss was putting more and more pressure on O'Brien to get him the ball. So what happens if O'Brien caves in? he can't cave in ... not with a young team like this. A veteran team perhaps you get a few more balls Randy's way ... but not here and not now.

Perhaps the fans who are angry here are more mad about O'Brien and that he is still here.

Belichick made the right call here IMO ... everyone needs to be on board even when they are not personally happy. This is how you get players to step up ... by producing with their bodies and not with their mouths. Coaches who try to please players don't produce victories ... this is not the NBA.

I don't think it was either Moss or O'Brien. I think Moss is just unhappy that he isn't getting a new deal combined with his role on offense diminishing in a contract year. If McDaniels or Weis were here and he was in the same situation, he would be a problem.

I will say that most premier WRs in a contract year would not be happy watching their role diminish to being a decoy.

 

[reflexblue]

i think the people who are angry here need to discuss the real core issue here.

Bill had to make a choice between Bill O'Brien and Randy Moss.

Not that O'Brien could not work with Randy ... of course he could ... coaches don't have to personally like their players, all they need to do is have their attention and get the most out of them.

But now you have a player who needs production to get a new contract and you have coaching which sees it differently. So perhaps Moss was putting more and more pressure on O'Brien to get him the ball. So what happens if O'Brien caves in? he can't cave in ... not with a young team like this. A veteran team perhaps you get a few more balls Randy's way ... but not here and not now.

Perhaps the fans who are angry here are more mad about O'Brien and that he is still here.

Belichick made the right call here IMO ... everyone needs to be on board even when they are not personally happy. This is how you get players to step up ... by producing with their bodies and not with their mouths. Coaches who try to please players don't produce victories ... this is not the NBA.

Players get into it with coaches all the time it wasn't an isolated incident that (OBrien blow up) that got moss traded. That being said i think BOB STINKS and an OC

 

[upstater1]

I have a question if the reports are true that this deal was talked about last week and was going to come down early this week. Why did the Pats even take the chance Moss gets hurt in the Miami game and there goes the trade.

Simple reply: they didn't want him near the team.

The draft choice is practically irrelevant. We're talking about the difference between a 3rd and a 5th for Moss. It's the difference between Wheatley and Wilhite.

So, he goes out and gets badly hurt, spends the rest of the season in Florida. Or, he gets traded. Either way, he's not around the team anymore.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I don't think it was either Moss or O'Brien. I think Moss is just unhappy that he isn't getting a new deal combined with his role on offense diminishing in a contract year. If McDaniels or Weis were here and he was in the same situation, he would be a problem.

I will say that most premier WRs in a contract year would not be happy watching their role diminish to being a decoy.

Belichick is smart enough to have known that this summer. Perhaps he gives it a few weeks to see if Gronk and Aaron are players ... perhaps. But if it's all about value then Bill would have traded Randy earlier IMO.

Bill knew what Randy's role was going to be. I said last year and i still say it ... no way Randy gets max production and lasts 16 games. he has broken down the last 2 years and he will break down for the Vikings also if he gets more than 6-8 catches a game.

 

[Rob0729]

"Apparently"

"I guess"

"Maybe"

I love Troy, but those 3 should be in neon warning lights.

I think you may be reading to much into it. Brown may just be uncomfortable talking negatively about another player especially one that he had a good relationship with. Brown basically is choosing his role as a media person over his friendship with Moss (whatever it was/is). Many former players in the media struggle with this.

 

[Ron Sellers]

I would have made him inactive myself, If the reports are right about the trade being close I would have. If the deal falls apart could not be worse than it has been these past 2 days.

With all due respect, if Moss had been inactive and the trade had fallen through, I think things in Foxboro would have been 100 times worse. In addition, the Pats would at that point have zero leverage in trying to work out another trade and would be fortunate to get a 2012 7th round pick for him at that point. Plus, Minnesota would see the circus after him being inactive and pull their offer of a 3rd and change it to something far less.

 

[SVN]

i think the people who are angry here need to discuss the real core issue here.

Bill had to make a choice between Bill O'Brien and Randy Moss.

Not that O'Brien could not work with Randy ... of course he could ... coaches don't have to personally like their players, all they need to do is have their attention and get the most out of them.

But now you have a player who needs production to get a new contract and you have coaching which sees it differently. So perhaps Moss was putting more and more pressure on O'Brien to get him the ball. So what happens if O'Brien caves in? he can't cave in ... not with a young team like this. A veteran team perhaps you get a few more balls Randy's way ... but not here and not now.

Perhaps the fans who are angry here are more mad about O'Brien and that he is still here.

Belichick made the right call here IMO ... everyone needs to be on board even when they are not personally happy. This is how you get players to step up ... by producing with their bodies and not with their mouths. Coaches who try to please players don't produce victories ... this is not the NBA.

iam not so sure that is the case about o'brien vs BB. seems more like the ownership and moss didnt get along seemingly had BB do this at least from what i read of cprice on weei

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I think the reasons for the move are simple if we just think about it for a minute:

- Moss is in a contract year and needs big numbers

- Pats don't want him beyond this season. He's 33 and his play is already starting the inevitable decline. Pats are young, have a boatload of picks next year, and feel they don't need an aging $8-10m/yr wide receiver

- the Pats are in the process of changing their offense back to the short passing game + running game featuring TE's. We all can see that the deep threat approach is too hit or miss for our team, we need to move the chains. 10-yd receptions and YAC are not Moss' strengths.

- therefore, he's not going to get the looks and numbers he wants, which could translate to a big drop in his market value (many millions)

- this puts his interests and the team's interests at odds, for the first time since he's been here. Everyone likes and respects each other, but that's the reality and it was causing a lot of tension

- thus more "incidents" in 3 months than the previous 3 years. Pats decide to pull the trigger, get some comp, avoid a deteriorating atmosphere in front of all the young kids, and free the coaches and Brady from worrying about this issue any more.

And also in fairness to Moss, send him to a place where he can get his needs met. I don't think it's by chance that the deal is with an NFC team with SB aspirations and a gunslinging QB.

And also it's the bye week, and the trading deadline's in 2 weeks.

As BB said, he's paid to make these tough decisions and he made a good judjment imo.

 

[IcyPatriot]

iam not so sure that is the case about o'brien vs BB. seems more like the ownership and moss didnt get along seemingly had BB do this at least from what i read of cprice on weei

You think ownership made him do this?

I heard that theory yesterday and it's a valid one ... as good as any other.

In the end I think the best solution was found albeit in an uncomfortable way.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't believe the media, and I don't believe Belichick's truthfulness to the media, either. All that we have to go on is the faith that Belichick must have had what he thought was a pretty compelling reason for trading Moss mid-season for a mid-round pick. Either there was some behind the scenes stuff, or he thinks that Moss' skills are rapidly diminishing and/or he can no longer help this team, or he effed up. It's apparently heresy to suggest that the third could be the case, and we'll know if it's the second soon enough, once Minny's taken him for a test drive.

More than likely, it's a combination of a few factors. If I had to guess, I'd say that they told Moss that he's not in their long term plans, and he requested a trade since he does NOT want to be a 35 y/o WR with no contract whose last 2 years have included a mediocre/subpar (by his standards) statistical season where he sacrificed for the good of the team, followed by a lockout. It would kill his value, and he has a lifetime after football and a family to think about. After last week's 0-catch, 1-target performance, I wouldn't be surprised if that request became a bit more urgent, and Belichick respectfully accommodated it.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I heard the entire BB conference. BB almost never talks about the past sucess of the Patriots. To me the telling remark from BB was when he said that the Patriots had won more games than any other team over the past 10 years.

Meaning: We won before Randy and we will win after Randy.No one player is bigger than the team.

If any of you ever had to give former employees references in this day in age, you never say anything negative. If you do, lawsuits could be flying. Moss was an employee of the NE Patriots, so don't expect to hear anything negative being said by any team official.