Barwin: positives and negatives

[RayClay]

Vrabel wasn't an OLB for the Steelers. He was a DE and they were running a 4-3 at the time, not a 3-4. Vrabel didn't move to 3-4 OLB until he got to the Patriots. And that was in 2002. After spending a year at the starting RDE. Colvin was trained to be a 4-3 OLB. So the switch was a bit easier.

But lets not forget that Bruschi actually went from DE to 4-3 OLB to 3-4 ILB. And, according to him, it took him 3 years to fully grasp his job as a 3-4 ILB.

As Belichick has said players making a position switch are less certain others. He doesn't gamble in Round One.
That is why he drafts DE-->OLBs later, and not in the first round.

To be fair, I added starters to AZs post. We have drafted Low round DEs, with limited success.

We didn't draft any low round or UDFA DEs and convert them to OLB starters in the Belichick (not Parcells) era. That's what I said.

Nothing you said refuted that.

You can argue with the guy who wrote this WIKI if you'd like, about Vrabel.

At the end of Vrabel's tenure with the Steelers, it had mostly been an issue with the numbers game at linebacker, as the Steelers had veterans Jason Gildon and Earl Holmes firmly in as the starters as well as the emergence of Joey Porter at the position. Before leaving for New England, Steelers head coach Bill Cowher told Vrabel that while he believed Vrabel would be a starter in the NFL, he wouldn't be a starter with the Steelers.

Mike Vrabel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess you want to argue with this guy about Colvin

LINEBACKER ROSEVELT COLVIN started his career in 1999 as an anonymous fourth-round pick of the Chicago Bears. The next season, he was overshadowed by rookie sensation Brian Urlacher.

This year, however, he's starting to make a name for himself as part of one of the NFL's best young linebacking crews.

Meet Urlacher's trusty sidekick. (Rising Star: Rosevelt Colvin). | Article from Football Digest | HighBeam Research

Urlacher, from the pocket-sized city of Lovington, N.M., (population 9,471), may also have the perspective of the humble; he was drafted out of New Mexico in the first round, as the ninth pick over all in the 2000 draft, but the Bears slotted him as a strongside linebacker.

He had played that position in college, as well as safety, and was also a receiver and return specialist. But outside linebacker didn't work for him with the Bears.

''Rosie Colvin beat me out,'' Urlacher said, referring to linebacker Rosevelt Colvin.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...6A25752C0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Bruschi is irrelevant to anything I said, he was drafted way back by Parcells.

 

[mayoclinic]

The question in my mind is can Barwin beat out Woods (unlikely) or Redd (more likely) on ST??

If he can then BB is afforded the luxury of developing Barwin and maybe using him a bit as a goal line TE, while NFL calibre players are manning the OLB starter spots.

At this point I see Barwin as more potential than ability. But BB once drafted Bethel Johnson in the second round based ebntirely on speed with very little production to backup using that high a draft pick.

I'm not sure I understand this. First, I think Barwin could be extremely productive as a situational pass rusher in addition to ST work while learning the intricacies of the OLB (or maybe even eventually SILB) position. Second, I don't understand the Bethel Johnson "entirely on speed with very little production comparison". Barwin's not a workout warrior with off the chart numbers and no production. He had 10 sacks through 11 games in his first season at DE, and was extremely productive in other regards. It may take him a while to learn LB in BB's system (it takes almost everyone a while to learn LB in BB's system, anyway; even AD admitted it was a big adjustment; Mayo and Guyton are the exceptions rather than the rule) but I don't see him being unproductive and I certainly don't see him as a Bethel Johnson type risk.

I would argue that with his versatility, intelligence, high motor and experience changing positions it may take Barwin less time to adapt to BB's system than an experienced LB succh as Maualuga who has not shown any instincts or any of the characteristics that would suggest he is likely to be able to grasp the nuances of BB's complex schemes.

 

[MetalBleachers]

I'm not sure I understand this. First, I think Barwin could be extremely productive as a situational pass rusher in addition to ST work while learning the intricacies of the OLB (or maybe even eventually SILB) position. Second, I don't understand the Bethel Johnson "entirely on speed with very little production comparison". Barwin's not a workout warrior with off the chart numbers and no production. He had 10 sacks through 11 games in his first season at DE, and was extremely productive in other regards. It may take him a while to learn LB in BB's system (it takes almost everyone a while to learn LB in BB's system, anyway; even AD admitted it was a big adjustment; Mayo and Guyton are the exceptions rather than the rule) but I don't see him being unproductive and I certainly don't see him as a Bethel Johnson type risk.

I would argue that with his versatility, intelligence, high motor and experience changing positions it may take Barwin less time to adapt to BB's system than an experienced LB succh as Maualuga who has not shown any instincts or any of the characteristics that would suggest he is likely to be able to grasp the nuances of BB's complex schemes.

So where do you draft him? 2a or 2b?

 

[mayoclinic]

So where do you draft him? 2a or 2b?

It's a little hard to say right now where he will fit on the Pats draft board, and also who else might be available around 2a, but that's where I've been tentatively putting him on my list. I could see if a top OL (such as William Beatty or Alex Mack) or DB fell to #47 holding off in the hope that he would still be available. But right now I think he would be a realistic option at #47 and if no one obviously much higher were available I'd hate to lose out on him merely on the hope that he might slip another 11 picks.

I do think that there's a much stronger possibility that the Pats trade up in the 2nd round than in the 1st. The cost is much lower, and there is likely to be near-1st round talent available through the mid-2nd round. We traded up from 52 to 36 in 2006 for our first 3rd round pick (#75, I think). I could see us trading up from around 58 to 50 (or from around 48 to 42) for our 4th round pick, particularly if we get a compensatory 4th for Randall Gay, if someone we wanted was available who we didn't think would last.

 

[patchick]

New NFP ranking lists Barwin as the #9 DE...and #4 TE!

The National Football Post | NFP Prospect Position Rankings

 

[MetalBleachers]

New NFP ranking lists Barwin as the #9 DE...and #4 TE!

The National Football Post | NFP Prospect Position Rankings

I think this says more about finding college players for the 3-4 system than about Barwin.

I mentioned his bench press before and got grief, but I wasn't saying that his bench means everything (hello: Mike Kudla Bench Press), but that, in context, it can help determine his ability to set the edge.

Guyton, for example, had a weak bench (15) and proved in his play that he wasn't able to shed blocks when he started at OLB vs. the Seahawks (got replaced by Colvin). This thread is about Barwin's positives and negatives. A good showing at the combine would be a positive. That's alls I'm sayin.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

NFL Smackdown - Versatile Barwin Helps To Keep Going

Versatile Barwin Helps To Keep Going

It's not that Connor Barwin didn't care about previous Senior Bowls. It's just that Barwin is used to having bigger things to worry about in January.

Much bigger. Like 7-foot-2 Roy Hibbert, then of Georgetown and now of the Indiana Pacers. And 7-foot-3 Hasheem Thabeet of UConn, coming soon to an NBA lottery team near you.

Barwin -- far from a giant at 6-foot-4 -- became a University of Cincinnati basketball player out of necessity in the winter of 2006. The Bearcats were short on bodies, and Barwin was a former high school basketball player who was asked to come in and be a linebacker-type player on the block.
-----
"I did play a little linebacker in high school, but that would in no way prepare me to do it in the NFL. I'm fast enough to do it, so we'll see. I just want to play."
-----
"I thought I learned a little pass-rush technique this year," Barwin said. "But then I spent three days earlier this month working with (longtime college and NFL coach) Rex Norris, and I came away thinking I have zero technique.

"Basically, I just run hard and try to get around the guy. The effort is there, but I have a lot to learn."

It's that type of effort -- and flexibility -- that's pushed Barwin to this point. During his high school days at Detroit Jesuit, he played lacrosse and hoped to be a scholarship basketball player before realizing there's no real demand for 6-foot-4 power forwards in big-time college basketball. So he chose to head down I-75 South and play football.

He was a backup and special teams player "who just went 100 miles an hour and hit whoever was in a different jersey" his first two football season at UC until he picked up a roughing the punter call in a nationally-televised game against Syracuse and proceeded to get a nationally-televised sideline lecture from then-head coach Mark Dantonio.

He didn't slow down, but he started playing smarter.

 

[dryheat44]

DB.....I dont believe this is true......the last time the steelers played 4-3, jack lambert was in the middle

Yep...the Steelers had him as a backup 3-4 DE. Basically, he was their Jarvis Green.

It's possible that the OLB position is already rebuilt, but it doesn't seem likely. Woods showed competence but no flashes of brilliance last year. Redd is still raw. And Crable didn't get enough playing time to show us much for certain.

Come on.....I realize that once players make the NFL draft status is irrelevant, but Pierre Woods and Vince Redd went undrafted for a reason....are we going to pass up on OLBs from now on because of the presence of Woods and Redd (and Crable) on the roster? They can definitely be improved on.

 

[DaBruinz]

To be fair, I added starters to AZs post. We have drafted Low round DEs, with limited success.

We didn't draft any low round or UDFA DEs and convert them to OLB starters in the Belichick (not Parcells) era. That's what I said.

Nothing you said refuted that.

Who said I was REFUTING anything that you posted other than Vrabel. I think that is an ignorant assumption on your part.

You can argue with the guy who wrote this WIKI if you'd like, about Vrabel.

Mike Vrabel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess you want to argue with this guy about Colvin

Meet Urlacher's trusty sidekick. (Rising Star: Rosevelt Colvin). | Article from Football Digest | HighBeam Research

Why would I argue with the guy about Colvin. Colvin was a reserve DE to start while learning to play the OLB position.


PRO FOOTBALL; Urlacher Plays Key Role in the Bears' Turnaround - New York Times

Bruschi is irrelevant to anything I said, he was drafted way back by Parcells.

Actually, the mention of Bruschi isn't irrelevant. It was mentioned as information about the transitioning of players from one position to another and the time it takes to do so. Now, its clear you think I was some how attacking you. I wasn't. But then, you must have a guilt complex or something, because you clearly thought otherwise.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Yep...the Steelers had him as a backup 3-4 DE. Basically, he was their Jarvis Green.

in vrabel's last year with the steelers, they were a 3-4 team with:

DL: aaron smith, kimo von oelhoffen, kevin henry
LB: gildon, kirkland, holmes, porter

their backups on the DL were chris sullivan, kedrick clancy, jeremy staat
their backups at LB were fiala, haggans, thompson, and vrabel

the steelers have been playing 3-4 longer than anyone

 

[VJCPatriot]

Is Barwin's hearing issues going to be a problem in terms of him being able to communicate with his teammates either on D or O? Just wondering. Obviously he has some nice physical attributes, but I wonder how that affects his football?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Is Barwin's hearing issues going to be a problem in terms of him being able to communicate with his teammates either on D or O? Just wondering. Obviously he has some nice physical attributes, but I wonder how that affects his football?

NE deals with noisy situations in every game, I'd be shocked if that was a deal breaker with Barwin.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

NE deals with noisy situations in every game, I'd be shocked if that was a deal breaker with Barwin.

My understanding is that the only time it ever poses an issue is if he's lined up to the right of the QB and can't hear audibles; on defense, he gets his cues from the O-line anyways.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My understanding is that the only time it ever poses an issue is if he's lined up to the right of the QB and can't hear audibles; on defense, he gets his cues from the O-line anyways.

He'll be playing up on his feet at OLB and will be able to see hand signals, besides he'll probably line up next to Sey to start with anyway.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

NFL Draft Prospect Interview: Connor Barwin, DE/TE, Cincinnati

NFL Draft Prospect Interview: Connor Barwin, DE/TE, Cincinnati
by Paul Eide
Senior Writer
2/17/09


Connor Barwin oozes confidence. And not the confidence that could easily be dismissed or categorized as arrogance, but a confidence borne of hard work and dedication, a self assuredness acquired thru discipline and performance. Confidence is a very powerful thing and has propelled Barwin to the enviable position he know finds himself in.
He may be the most versatile player available in the entire draft but the amazing thing is where he was a year ago at this time.

The 6-4, 255 pound Barwin came to the University Cincinnati as a tight end and also appeared in 41 games with the Bearcat basketball team. On the football field, he spent his first two years backing up future Philadelphia Eagles tight end Brent Celek. In 2007 he finally got the chance to start and responded with a respectful junior campaign racking up 31 receptions and two touchdowns on the season. But prior to his senior season in 2008, head coach Brian Kelly called Barwin into his office for an unexpected meeting that drastically altered his future.

“Just after winter conditioning Coach Kelly called me into his office. I thought he was calling me into his office because I was going to be a senior, to be a team leader, something along those lines,” Barwin continued. “But then he just threw it on me; “What do you think about playing defensive end?” And I said “I’ve never really thought if it.” He then told me they were ‘going to try it out in the spring but were not really trying it out, because I know you’re going to be good at it.’ And ever since first couple days of spring ball I felt natural doing it and it worked out.”

Worked out indeed. Barwin went from solid yet unspectacular tight end to the best defensive end in the Big East in less than a year, leading the conference in sacks and being named all conference. In 14 games, he had 11 sacks, 53 tackles and16 tackles for loss. To get an idea of how athletic and how much of a disruptor he is in all facets, Barwin had eight passes defended and blocked three punts adding steam to the idea of him being an ideal fit for an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. So, how does a guy go from playing tight end to leading the Big East in sacks in less than a year?

 

[fgssand]

NFL Draft Prospect Interview: Connor Barwin, DE/TE, Cincinnati

My goodness, lookie what I found....real information that only serves to raise our hopes of landing this guy.

I am not sure if round two is too high, but , hell what do we know about the value of what rounds these guys should go anyway?? Even the experts and NFL executives that do this for a living are wrong more often then they are right.

He just seems to be the kind of player we are looking for, talented, smart, versatile and confident.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My goodness, lookie what I found....real information that only serves to raise our hopes of landing this guy.

I am not sure if round two is too high, but , hell what do we know about the value of what rounds these guys should go anyway?? Even the experts and NFL executives that do this for a living are wrong more often then they are right.

He just seems to be the kind of player we are looking for, talented, smart, versatile and confident.

I like to think of him as a potential cross between Vrabel and Demarcus Ware. He's raw, no technique, but he's got a nose for the ball and he's played up on his feet some. I'd really like to see what he can do with a diet of football 24/7 and NE coaching...can you just picture this guy under "coach" Vrabel's wing?

 

[reflexblue]

His beaing deaf may actually be a positive. It means he has to be more aware of everything around him. He may be more intune with all the little movements qbs running backs te's etc. make before the snap and giv him an edge.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I like to think of him as a potential cross between Vrabel and Demarcus Ware. He's raw, no technique, but he's got a nose for the ball and he's played up on his feet some. I'd really like to see what he can do with a diet of football 24/7 and NE coaching...can you just picture this guy under "coach" Vrabel's wing?

That might actually be a frightening thing:

 

[Ochmed Jones]

That might actually be a frightening thing:

The resemblance is scary!

Barwin needs to put on a few pounds of muscle.

Does the signing of TBC provide enough depth at OLB that we do not need to draft one?