Backup QB

[dryheat44]

I like this scenario as well...although I wonder about Fiedler learning the play book and then being released....do the Pats really wish to do that???

It's a consideration. But we have Damon Huard, Jim Miller, Chris Redman, and Rohan Davey all out there. It doesn't seem to concern Belichick too much.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

He's a tough smaht experienced QB who can be successful in the Patriots "small ball system".

According to ESPN Insider anaylist, KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist...

NOTE: this is from Scientific Football: 2005 and is based on 2004 stats. SF:2006 is expected to be released sometime in June at the earliest. I don't expect much of a difference in the Pats 2005 pass distribution.

"The Patriots had the lowest percentage of short passes in the entire league, and there's a clear reason for this. Their short passing game is simply a tool to accomplish three things: 1) To keep defenses from putting eight defenders in the box; 2) To make sure the defense backs don't stay too far off the line to cheat for the deeper passes; and 3) As a checkoff in the event the deep pass isn't open. The Pats also run a very safe short passing game. Brady only had one poor decision on a short pass all year, and that was in the Miami Monday night game.

"The Patriots also ranked second in medium pass percentage and fourth in deep pass percentage. I haven't looked at the combined percentages for these metrics for the entire league, but I'd have to think that this probably makes them either No. 1 or a close No. 2.

"The disparity of short and vertical passes clearly illustrates the Patriots passing game philosophy. When the Pats pass short, they are going to be certain they don't make mistakes on it. They are more willing to make mistakes on vertical passes.

"What I mean by this is that the Patriots seem to have a risk/reward ratio in mind when they pass the ball. They won't take any chances on short passes because the risk far outweighs the reward. They are much more willing to take chances on deeper passes because the reward is higher. Again, they have a very clear idea of what their passing philosophy is. You'd be amazed how many teams don't have this philosophical clarity.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The ideal thing to do, IMO (and Fiedler will have to go for it), is to sign Fiedler and then put him on the PUP list. That would give us some time to see if Cassell can be #2 (I think he's ligit). If not, when the decision has to be made, we can activate Jay. If Cassell looks to be OK in practices or mop-up duty, then we'll release Fiedler, when he'd be free to sign with some other team with QB injury issues.

So in week 7 you activate a QB who has had no TC (can't and then go on PUP) and no opportunity to build any kind of rhythm or rapore with this offense - or you release a veteran QB who has had your 2006 playbook in his posession for 5 months? And you pay him $810,000 even at the veteran minimum for a player with 11 credited years (even though he only actually played in 6 or 7 if you count his 7 snap performance for the JETS last season) because veterans with 4 years have their salary vest if they are on the roster (including PUP) in week 1. That's not ideal it's foolish IMO.

Besides which Fiedler isn't going to be interested in any deal that doesn't give him a legitimate shot at being the #2 QB on a roster. And at age 34 after 3 injury plagued seasons and coming off an apparently severe shoulder injury I'm not sure he has a legit shot here unless Cassel has regressed dramatically in the off season. I think BB's calm is more likely a sign he believes that is not the case, and he's just mulling the best options and approach at #3.

I keep hearing what a cerebral QB Fiedler is. I assume that is because he was a former Ivy Leaguer. He makes an inordinate number of bad decisions as his stats underscore. And his record as a backup is sub .500 with more 1 more INT than TD's and roughly a fumble per appearance. He had two decent seasons for the 'phins at ages 28-29 the last of which was 4 years ago. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago he was worth a shot, but he's been a hard luck crap shoot QB pretty much since then.

PS Huard, Millar, Redman and Davey may be familiar with the system and the terminology but they haven't seen the current seasons playbook (only Rohan had in the season he was released) nor have any of them played in years if ever.

 

[dryheat44]

So in week 7 you activate a QB who has had no TC (can't and then go on PUP) and no opportunity to build any kind of rhythm or rapore with this offense - or you release a veteran QB who has had your 2006 playbook in his posession for 5 months? And you pay him $810,000 even at the veteran minimum for a player with 11 credited years (even though he only actually played in 6 or 7 if you count his 7 snap performance for the JETS last season) because veterans with 4 years have their salary vest if they are on the roster (including PUP) in week 1. That's not ideal it's foolish IMO.

Besides which Fiedler isn't going to be interested in any deal that doesn't give him a legitimate shot at being the #2 QB on a roster. And at age 34 after 3 injury plagued seasons and coming off an apparently severe shoulder injury I'm not sure he has a legit shot here unless Cassel has regressed dramatically in the off season. I think BB's calm is more likely a sign he believes that is not the case, and he's just mulling the best options and approach at #3.

I keep hearing what a cerebral QB Fiedler is. I assume that is because he was a former Ivy Leaguer. He makes an inordinate number of bad decisions as his stats underscore. And his record as a backup is sub .500 with more 1 more INT than TD's and roughly a fumble per appearance. He had two decent seasons for the 'phins at ages 28-29 the last of which was 4 years ago. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago he was worth a shot, but he's been a hard luck crap shoot QB pretty much since then.

PS Huard, Millar, Redman and Davey may be familiar with the system and the terminology but they haven't seen the current seasons playbook (only Rohan had in the season he was released) nor have any of them played in years if ever.

I'm not going to argue against anything you just said, but I don't see the problem. 810,000 is cheap for QB insurance. Hell, we made a 2.5 million option payment on Poole last year when it was unknown if he would make the team.

Yes, in week 7, depending on what BB's seen from Cassell in practice and any mop up duty, we either activate Fiedler or release him. I'm not assuming Brady gets hurt in week 7, and Fiedler has to ride in on his white horse to save the season. He might not even be the backup for the first couple of weeks. But if Brady (God forbid) gets hurt week 11, I think Fiedler would be a good option if Cassel looks shaky. How much time do you think he'll need to build up a rhythym with the offense? Two weeks, tops.

Or Cassell looks good, and there's no room on the roster to carry a fourth quarterback we release him. Honestly, I think BB could pass out the playbook to the league and it probably wouldn't hurt the offense much. Maybe his shoulder suffers a setback and goes on IR.

Like I said, the only way it works is if Fiedler agrees to the arrangement, so I'm already starting with an unlikely pre-requisite.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm not going to argue against anything you just said, but I don't see the problem. 810,000 is cheap for QB insurance. Hell, we made a 2.5 million option payment on Poole last year when it was unknown if he would make the team.

Yes, in week 7, depending on what BB's seen from Cassell in practice and any mop up duty, we either activate Fiedler or release him. I'm not assuming Brady gets hurt in week 7, and Fiedler has to ride in on his white horse to save the season. He might not even be the backup for the first couple of weeks. But if Brady (God forbid) gets hurt week 11, I think Fiedler would be a good option if Cassel looks shaky. How much time do you think he'll need to build up a rhythym with the offense? Two weeks, tops.

Or Cassell looks good, and there's no room on the roster to carry a fourth quarterback we release him. Honestly, I think BB could pass out the playbook to the league and it probably wouldn't hurt the offense much. Maybe his shoulder suffers a setback and goes on IR.

Like I said, the only way it works is if Fiedler agrees to the arrangement, so I'm already starting with an unlikely pre-requisite.

We made a $600,000 roster bonus payment to Poole on the assumption that if he was healthy he would start. $810,000 is veteran minimum for Fiedler, and if he can play he'll want more. That is not good value for a 3rd string QB. If we release Fiedler in week 7 and he is healthy he could easily go to a division rival with no viable QB - there may be three of those by then.

It would take a lot more than two weeks in the regular season for a QB on PUP with no organized practice time in 12 months to build any rapore or timing with a team he's never played with because in season the bulk of the practice snaps go to the starter. Maybe an exceptional QB could do it, but Fiedler isn't exceptional by any stretch. And at this stage in his career as the JETS discovered he's an injury waiting to happen the moment he takes the field.

 

[flutie2phelan]

This thought-provoking and topical thread
has been a help as i toy with my first mock roster.

Fiedler seems to have more support than anyone else ... for Number Three ... and elsewhere, earlier,
i mentioned that he was my fave, too.

But i've dropped that position.
Cassel is clearly BB's #2 - no need to propound that.
Perhaps we don't even need a third. But "keeping an extra roster player" -
which is the supposed advantage to having only 2 QBs - is an illusion. Any such extra roster player
likewise would have to be inactive on gameday ... and wouldn't be eligible for 4th quarter use
or emergency in-game activation.

So, we are very likely to carry 3. My guess is that BB takes one of Mortensen or Bramlet,
and carries the other on the p/s ... as insurance against having made the wrong choice.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Steve Grogan's still available, isn't he?

 

[Flying Fungi]

This thought-provoking and topical thread
has been a help as i toy with my first mock roster.

Fiedler seems to have more support than anyone else ... for Number Three ... and elsewhere, earlier,
i mentioned that he was my fave, too.

But i've dropped that position.
Cassel is clearly BB's #2 - no need to propound that.
Perhaps we don't even need a third. But "keeping an extra roster player" -
which is the supposed advantage to having only 2 QBs - is an illusion. Any such extra roster player
likewise would have to be inactive on gameday ... and wouldn't be eligible for 4th quarter use
or emergency in-game activation.

So, we are very likely to carry 3. My guess is that BB takes one of Mortensen or Bramlet,
and carries the other on the p/s ... as insurance against having made the wrong choice.

There simply have to be some TC cuts that have comparable miles as Fiedler but have an arm that actually works. That's one of the values of QB depth in preseason and camp isn't it? To save the #1 and to a degree the #2 QB from wearing their arms out? I think I'd take Frerotte over Fiedler right now. I'll take a look at depth around the league and try to come up with a few names of possible cuts for other suggestions as well.

 

[Flying Fungi]

let's add Shane Matthews and Jamie Martin to the discussion--both UFAs with 10+ yrs experience...

 

[edzo44]

. . . Cassel is clearly BB's #2 - no need to propound that. Perhaps we don't even need a third. But "keeping an extra roster player" - which is the supposed advantage to having only 2 QBs - is an illusion. Any such extra roster player likewise would have to be inactive on gameday ... and wouldn't be eligible for 4th quarter use or emergency in-game activation.

So, we are very likely to carry 3. My guess is that BB takes one of Mortensen or Bramlet, and carries the other on the p/s ... as insurance against having made the wrong choice.

You just caused me to have a curious thought. We always talk about BB always being prepared for "situational" football, so if the "situation" is all your Quarterbacks got hurt in the same game what does he do?

My curious thought raised the questions - "are there any players on the "active" roster that were Quarterbacks in high school or college"? And, "has BB had them taking an occasional snap or two in practice just in case the proposed injury scenario were to occur"? If so, who are the ex-quarterbacks, if any, on the team?