Article: New England Patriots' Randy Moss still great when he wants to be

[Deus Irae]

See the line I bolded above. SO what you are saying is that Moss is a scumbag for dogging it when everyone in NFL history has dogged it.

I'm not claiming that Moss is a scumbag. I'm not claiming that Moss doesn't care. I'm not claiming that Moss has been a cancer. You're jumping in to something without understanding the issue.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'm not claiming that Moss is a scumbag. I'm not claiming that Moss doesn't care. I'm not claiming that Moss has been a cancer. You're jumping in to something without understanding the issue.

OK maybe my saying your calling him a scumbag was overstating it but you still didnt respond to the crux of that argument.


plain as day you admit that no NFL player has ever played 100% effort 100% of the time but that is exactly what you are criticizing Moss for.


let me rephrase with a less harsh descriptive word.

You're being absolutely silly. First of all, we KNOW that Moss doesn't go all out 100% of the time in 100% of the games. We know this because, if he did, he'd be the first player to do it in history: it would run contrary to human nature. We also know because Brady told us so, in very diplomatic fashion, even as he was defending Moss:

See the line I bolded above. So what you are saying is that Moss is in your doghouse for dogging it when everyone in NFL history has dogged it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yup my points are silliness and I'm a homer who is just as bad as NSA, B2M etc...

Forget facts, forget football, your argument is now "Unless you jump for the ball you are not giving full effort". Awesome. There is no more to playing WR in the NFL than jumping for the ball. Let's throw out facts and football discussion. Deus wants you to f'ing jump for the ball, Randy... SO JUMP!

What "facts"? You keep confusing your opinion with facts.

Fact: Moss has not caught several balls thrown his way
Fact: Not all of those throws have been bad throws
Fact: Not all of the 'bad' throws were uncatchable
Fact: Moss is taller than Jammer
Fact: Moss had position on Jammer, by NFL definitions
Fact: Moss is famous for both his speed and his leaping ability
Fact: Moss has jumped for balls during his NFL career
Fact: The drop in the endzone against the Rams had nothing to do with your leaping argument
Fact: The ball that he had bounce off of him and become a Rams interception had nothing to do with your leaping argument

Your opinion is that Moss is giving 100% on every one of those plays.

My opinion is that he's not, be the issue a deliberate slacking or, more likely, just not being in the proper mental frame of mind post-Brady, or some other reason.

I defend Patriots players from what I think are unfair attacks all the time. I just don't think it's unfair to wonder about Moss' attitude, state of mind, and game effort so far this season, particularly in that San Diego game.

 

[Deus Irae]

See the line I bolded above. So what you are saying is that Moss is in your doghouse for dogging it when everyone in NFL history has dogged it.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Moss is not in my doghouse. I'm not bashing Moss because I'm angry with him. I don't hate Moss. I don't think Moss is deliberately giving less than his best effort. I don't think Moss is a team problem. I don't think people should be criticizing Moss because of his past issues, although for the record, it's clear that one of those past issues is, indeed, a failure to give 100% in Oakland.

Moss, like almost every player on the team this season, has put forth an inconsistent effort so far, and the results have shown both individually for him and for the team. No player can play at 100% all the time but, when you blow a play because of a lack of 100% effort, you deserve the criticism.

To point to Brady's quote:

"We had 54 pass attempts in a game, and you go out and tell a world-class sprinter to run 50, 50-yard dashes, the idea is 'you better have it when you need it.' And Randy is a smart player and he knows when he needs it,"

Randy hasn't had it when he needed it on too many occasions this season.

 

[emoney_33]

What "facts"? You keep confusing your opinion with facts.

Fact: Moss has not caught several balls thrown his way
Fact: Not all of those throws have been bad throws

Stop! "Not all" could mean 1. Don't generalize your "facts" to fit your "opinions".

Fact: Not all of the 'bad' throws were uncatchable
Fact: Moss is taller than Jammer
Fact: Moss had position on Jammer, by NFL definitions
Fact: Moss is famous for both his speed and his leaping ability
Fact: Moss has jumped for balls during his NFL career

Moss has slowed down and put his hands up at the last second when the situation calls for it to. But only lists "facts" that support YOUR "opinions". Your opinion is that the plays in question are "jump ball" plays, and my position is WRONG. You really need to go study those plays again because you have created a twisted version of them in your mind.

Fact: The drop in the endzone against the Rams had nothing to do with your leaping argument

And I have never said it did lol. It was a catch Randy SHOULD have made and a catch he will probably 99% of the time. That doesn't mean he dropped it due to effort. Nor would you attribute that to lack of effort if the same pass was dropped by Reggie Wayne or Jerry Rice.

Fact: The ball that he had bounce off of him and become a Rams interception had nothing to do with your leaping argument

Again when did I claim it did? WTF that is YOUR argument. I have to review this play because I barely remember it, so I don't want to comment too much on it. But worst case scenario is an easy catch that he screwed up. You demand it has to be due to "effort", because you demand Moss be perfect as long as he tries.

Your opinion is that Moss is giving 100% on every one of those plays.

My opinion is that he's not, be the issue a deliberate slacking or, more likely, just not being in the proper mental frame of mind post-Brady.

I defend Patriots players from what I think are unfair attacks all the time. I just don't think it's unfair to wonder about Moss' attitude, state of mind, and game effort so far this season, particularly in that San Diego game.

I don't believe anyone is trully giving 100% except for very rarely. I do believe that Moss has given what we can classify as full or good effort on all of those plays, as much as Welker and the rest of the league's WRs give.

Again, the SD game is the PERFECT example of a DB making plays. How you continuously argue this makes me believe that you do not recall the plays in question properly or do not understand why a WR would play a ball like that.


FACT: Welker dropped an easier catch

Tell me Welker didn't give good effort on that play and this issue is dead, because your idea of failure equates to lack of effort.

 

[emoney_33]

Randy hasn't had it when he needed it on too many occasions this season.

Quit acting like you are the proper judge of effort based on results. You give those exact plays you claim lack of effort on an inch more space and it's a TD, with the exact same "effort".

Not succeeding does not mean you are not giving full effort. My goodness. Rodney gave full effort trying to break up the Tyree pass, but Tyree's helmet became stubborn.

Quit accusing Moss of not giving effort for each and every failure and then claiming you are not biased. You clearly are.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Horrible article, I'll give him the ****ty blocking on the screen but Moss isn't a great blocker to begin with, but to criticize him for some great plays by the defenders and dropping a pass (an extreme rarity)? C'mon

 

[Deus Irae]

Stop! "Not all" could mean 1. Don't generalize your "facts" to fit your "opinions".

Thanks for posting this idiocy. It shows me that you're completely irrational on this topic, and I have no need to continue further with someone this irrational.

 

[emoney_33]

Thanks for posting this idiocy. It shows me that you're completely irrational on this topic, and I have no need to continue further with someone this irrational.

Instead of attempting to argue your logic that not jumping for the balls in the SD game means lack of effort, you nitpick one post, attack and leave?

Did Welker not display 100% effort when he dropped an easy catch? YES OR NO?

 

[Deus Irae]

Instead of attempting to argue your logic that not jumping for the balls in the SD game means lack of effort, you nitpick one post, attack and leave?

Did Welker not display 100% effort when he dropped an easy catch? YES OR NO?

1.) There has clearly been more than 1 post at issue

2.) The SD game was gone over very thoroughly in a different thread, where you made the same silly arguments

3.) Your post about generalized "facts" was nonsensical and now you go back to Welker

As I said, I have no need to continue this with someone being so irrational. Have a nice day.

 

[emoney_33]

1.) There has clearly been more than 1 post at issue

2.) The SD game was gone over very thoroughly in a different thread, where you made the same silly arguments

3.) Your post about generalized "facts" was nonsensical and now you go back to Welker

As I said, I have no need to continue this with someone being so irrational. Have a nice day.

Why is it so hard to answer the question? Was Welker giving full effort or not when he dropped an easy catch??

 

[lorijean]

Could someone who is far more knowledgeable than I please take the top five WR's in the NFL today and go over their moves play by play for an entire game? I am curious as to how they would hold up.

I personally think Randy may be distracted a bit. I read a story from a WV paper about his oldest daughter and it mentioned that Randy and Libby's fifth child is due around now. I know his family lives in Kentucky and I think it can be hard to be so far away from them at this time. Here's the link to the story in case someone is interested.

Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports - Rich Stevens - Randy Moss's daughter making her own name on basketball court*

GO PATS!

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Could someone who is far more knowledgeable than I please take the top five WR's in the NFL today and go over their moves play by play for an entire game? I am curious as to how they would hold up.

I personally think Randy may be distracted a bit. I read a story from a WV paper about his oldest daughter and it mentioned that Randy and Libby's fifth child is due around now. I know his family lives in Kentucky and I think it can be hard to be so far away from them at this time. Here's the link to the story in case someone is interested.

Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports - Rich Stevens - Randy Moss's daughter making her own name on basketball court*

GO PATS!

if moss had been traded to green bay or indy this would be the first thing john clayton would bring up.

 

[lorijean]

Just wanted to add the Randy was limited in practice today with an ankle injury. Reiss has said recently he would not be surprised to find that Randy has an injury. I admit to not reading all the posts on this thread. Did anyone mention that maybe he is hurt? Or did everyone who was critical just assume he was dogging it?

 

[D-Money]

I would love to see Moss have a breakout game against the colts.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

"I have never, ever felt he has taken plays off. Are you kidding me?"

-Tom Brady on the accusation that Randy Moss is "taking plays off."​

"Randy's been one of our most consistent players since the day he got here last year. At practice, games, long routes, short routes, running game, you name it. He's been very consistent for us. As far as his play, I think that he's played at a good consistent level."

"Are there plays everybody would like to do a little bit better? Of course. We all have those though. I'm not saying anybody's perfect or you can't find a play where a player didn't make a mistake or could have played it better but he's been a very consistent player for us."

-Bill Belichick on the accusation that Randy Moss is "taking plays off."​

No, I've seen him take plays off. Sorry, I have.

-Deus Irae on the accusation that Randy Moss is "taking plays off."​

The eye sees what the mind looks for Deus. IMO, you're letting Randy's reputation (an unfair reputation in many people's judgment) cloud your perception. People have tried to point it out to you but you seem not to want to listen. You excoriate others for not giving our back-up QB the benefit of the doubt, yet you won't give our HOF wide out and team captain the same courtesy? What's up with that?

 

[Absurdly Metro]

MO, the answer could be... he's not perfect. I mean yea he's the best, but that doesn't mean we should expect him to come up with the ball 100% of the time. Hell the greatest hitter ever in baseball failed 60% of the time.

Last year there wasn't as much focus on Moss early on, there wasn't as many DBs making really good plays, there wasn't a young QB trying to learn, there weren't as many inaccurate throws. I mean aside from the drop in the last game in the endzone, he hasn't really been at fault for the unsuccessful attempts. No one is accusing Welker of ANYTHING but he dropped an easy catch and fell down without contact last game.

If Moss didn't carry the reputation he has, this would not be an issue at all IMO.

Right on the money EMoney!

 

[Deus Irae]

The eye sees what the mind looks for Deus. IMO, you're letting Randy's reputation (an unfair reputation in many people's judgment) cloud your perception. People have tried to point it out to you but you seem not to want to listen. You excoriate others for not giving our back-up QB the benefit of the doubt, yet you won't give our HOF wide out and team captain the same courtesy? What's up with that?

I don't recall Cassel's effort being in question. I recall his ability being in question. The comparison, therefore, fails. As for the Moss aspect, Brady pointed out that Moss doesn't give the same level of effort on every play, albeit in diplomatic fashion. If you have a problem with the effort issue, take it up with him.

Y'all are splitting hairs. To me, giving a fair portion less than 100% effort is taking a play off. To Brady, it's not. He's using different words to say the same thing.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Did anyone mention that maybe he is hurt? Or did everyone who was critical just assume he was dogging it?

It came up in the speculation but was overwhelmed by the tide of chest thumping we great apes need to prove our points.

Speaking of chest thumping: I'll concede to those arguing some great effort by defenders has affected the results of Cassel to Moss plays, but not being a big fan of Quinton Jammer or the kid who actually held the ball up for Moss in the Rams game, I'm not excited about their great effort against the best active WR in the NFL. I'm disappointed by what appeared to be miscalculations or some other error in execution by Randy that allowed those DBs to be in position to affect the play.

I've got a simple rule of thumb here: if Cassel throws a ball to Logan Mankins and he gets two hands on it, I'm not surprised or disappointed when he drops it; if Cassel throws a ball to Randy Moss (or Wes Welker or Jabar Gaffney or Kevin Faulk, etc.) and he gets two hands on it, I'm going to expect him to catch the ball 99% of the time, defender or no. One "incompletion" in a game where the defender didn't immediately decleat him is forgivable, more than one - as in the San Diego game - and I'm asking myself what's wrong here?

I expect Billy Yates to miss a block on occasion, when he misses more than one in a game I'm looking closer and wondering if he's just outclassed or if he's not executing correctly. Randy is getting the same treatment, Brady has gotten this treatment from me. It is just a little less likely, or maybe a whole lot less likely, that Randy or Tommy are going to be outclassed compared to Billy. It is what it is.

 

[Captain Cliche]

How many players have an article written about them eluding to them "doggin-it" when they have a sub-par performance?