Agents' Rebuttal to Kraft's Interview

[robbomango]

Using Reggie Wayne's contract as a comparable template the offers aren't as bad as perceived, 3 year 17.5 mil deal signed at age 33 for a hard working, consistent, highly productive, loyal receiver with 11 years tenure with the team. Just trying to make sense out of the numbers, sucks he's playing with Mr Potato head that's for sure...

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Welker's Agent: "It was take it or leave it" from Patriots

You're just spouting Pats PR messaging.

1. There is a newspaper report that Amendola's deal was done first; the Pats had moved on before Welker ever came back to give them a chance to match. Amendola was Option #1, he was not the backup plan. Playing earmuffs doesn't change the reported facts.

2. The Welker offer was 2 years at 10 million, which was LOWER than what Denver offered. It was also a 'take it or leave it' according to his agents.

You are confusing the "take it or leave it" offer to Wes with the lowered offer made to Wes when he came BACK to them with the Denver offer and asked them to match (and indeed an Amendola agreement had been reached by then)

This is the timeline, according to everybody (even Welker's agent):

1) Pats make "take it or leave it" offer to Wes

2) Wes says "I'll leave it"

3a) Wes starts legally exploring his options, while
3b) Pats contact Amendola and strike a deal

4) Wes only has one offer he likes, from Denver, and it was for less than he expected and less than the Pats had even offered.

5) Wes contacts Kraft and asks them to match Denver.

6) Kraft says "sorry Wes, take it or leave it meant take it or leave it, and we have moved on. We don't have much room left, but the best we could go is 2 years/10 million now".

7) Welker becomes a Bronco

 

[jays52]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, more so the forum in general, but here it is. Stop it. Wes Welker is gone. Whether you want to admit it or not, the offense is moving in a different direction and will not need him to be an elite unit at the highest level. He's on Denver and no amount of crying, finger pointing, cyclical discussions, or any other 16 year old girl type behavior is going to change that. The Patriots will move on and compete for a championship in 2013 like they have done in nearly every season under this head coach/ownership combination. They will spend up to the cap like they do every year under this head coach/ownership combination. They will start an all-pro at many positions like they do every year under this head coach/ownership combination. Eat a piece of meat, do some squats, and calm down.


Love, Jay

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You are aware that the billionaire Kraft signed a contract limiting the total amount of money he can spend on players, right? So the fact that he's a billionaire is completely irrelevant, and in fact detracts from the big picture.

If the Pats never spent to the cap (like Cincinnati and usually Buffalo), I would complain. Billionaire Kraft instead spends to the cap (top quarter in league payroll last year), he just spends more on the Arringtons of the world and less on the stars. You may not like it, but that's his philosophy, and they've only had two losing seasons since he bought the team so it seems like it's working to me.

Sadly the glittery Big Name FAs and the pervasive MLB culture of the Boston area has infused and destroyed the minds of too many casual Pats fans. They've forgotten last decade's articles referring to the perennial SB winning NE Patriots as a "lunch pail" team of blue collar workman like players without Big NFL Names, the names that the fantasy obsessed love to stroke wood over.

BTW, nice job on History Channel's "Vikings" Thor.

 

[grux]

So the agent:

1. Lied about there not being an offer. He was probably thinking the Pats would be tight lipped about the negotiation. Woops.

2. Never denies the Pats offer wasn't better than Denver's.

3. Settled for an offer that could possibly put Welker back on the market next year because of a flat cap. So, his client has to risk getting hurt and needs to put up great numbers in an offense that already has two very good receivers. I am pulling for Wes to have a great year and hope he stays healthy. If he doesn't, the market for a 33 year old slot receiver coming off a mediocre season isn't going to be good. Looks like Dunn is better at Russian Roulette than Poker.


Dunn misrepresented the slot receiver market and dragged his feet a little to long. The Pats had no choice but to move on or else no Welker or DA. Also sounds like Wes should have picked up the phone and called Mr. Kraft a little sooner. To bad because I wanted Wes to finish up his career with Brady.

 

[Captain Cliche]

To me it boils down to Amendola. If he is not available, Wes is still a Pat.

Welker/his agent miscalculated:

1. Wes's indespensibility.

2. His market value.

As far as he said/she said....I wouldn't piss on a sports agent if he was on fire.

 

[Fencer]

Evidently:

• Welker's agent requested an offer within a certain financial range.
• The Pats never made such an offer.
• Neither did any other team, including the Broncos.

 

[Ivan]

Using Reggie Wayne's contract as a comparable template the offers aren't as bad as perceived, 3 year 17.5 mil deal signed at age 33 for a hard working, consistent, highly productive, loyal receiver with 11 years tenure with the team. Just trying to make sense out of the numbers, sucks he's playing with Mr Potato head that's for sure...

The sad thing about that is that the Patriots could have had him and a deal like that, which is completely reasonable, could well have put them over the top, and there is enough waste to cut out enough to have made that a done deal. The Patriots are really well run financially but sometimes they really do need to push the envelope on certain deals to get them done and the team over the top.

 

[jsull87]

Agents: Pats' offer was 'take it or leave it' - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I'm glad they are taking the high road.

Seems clear to me that what was being communicated to the agents, and what has the actual margin for negotiation differed, at least from what is being said here.

Interesting that they claim an offer was made with the same money and same term length that was rejected. So much for Kraft's comments about how the $2 million wouldn't have been a stumbling block.

The agent conveniently doesn't address the timing of the call between Wes and Kraft.

From all reports Wes called Kraft with the Denver deal after they had already decided to move on to Amendola once FA had begun and their offer wasn't accepted.

Also the guy was caught in a lie as he went from on the day of the signing "pats never made an offer" to "the pats only made one offer". Also when he said that the pats and the agent were "miles apart" the agent ended up accepting a deal that was 2/12 instead of the pats offer 2/10 plus incentives that (according to Reiss) would have realistically probably been bang on 12.

I know this could have probably been handled better from both sides but it seems that this is a pretty clear case of the agent over estimated the market for Wes at a wining franchise (apparently the Titans offered him more)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

It was widely reported that Welker had 1 offer from the Patriots this week, a lowball offer.
The agent said the Patriots never made the 2 year $16 offer reported in 2010. It's being twisted that they say there was never a Pats offer this week. Everyone is in agreement there was 1 Pats offer this week.

Also, it's Pats' spin to say the Pats lowered their offer to 2 years $10M. It was the only offer from the beginning, the take it or leave it offer. It was 2 years $10M and an unattainable $16M with out of reach goals just to pump up the dollar amount for perception and PR.

Amendola was Option #1 from the beginning. The Pats gave Welker a lowball knowing he would never accept it, then when he predictably turned it down, they went with Option #1.

 

[bagwell368]

It was widely reported that Welker had 1 offer from the Patriots this week, a lowball offer.

"lowball" by whose standards? Nobody topped the Denver offer which wasn't even better than the Pats offer in all dimensions. Sounds like a reasonable offer to me - and BTW, the Pats were under no obligation to make any offer.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Jonathan weighs in, BTW he blames blames both sides.
I know its hard for some to grasp but its possible WW was the Pats 1st choice and the Pats was WW's 1st choice and for a deal not to get done, its business, it happens everyday.

It Is What It Is » Jonathan Kraft discusses where Patriots’ negotiations with Wes Welker went awry

 

[Hardboiled]

Amendola was Option #1 from the beginning. The Pats gave Welker a lowball knowing he would never accept it, then when he predictably turned it down, they went with Option #1.

It seems like the Denver offer could have been considered low ball if the Patriots had offered it first. The agent makes it seem like it was some great decision to take the Denver offer. WW's demeanor says otherwise.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Originally Posted by DropKickFlutie

Amendola was Option #1 from the beginning. The Pats gave Welker a lowball knowing he would never accept it, then when he predictably turned it down, they went with Option #1.

The Patriots goal is to get as many good players as they can and stay within the salary cap, not to pay a guy what he wants because hes a good player, who knows what plans they have down the road, they have a one year, two year, three year plan etc..

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The Patriots goal is to get as many good players as they can and stay within the salary cap, not to pay a guy what he wants because hes a good player, who knows what plans they have down the road, they have a one year, two year, three year plan etc..

Welker wasn't asking to break the bank. He went back to the Patriots to see if they would match the 2 year $12M offer, they said no. They had already moved on when he wouldn't sign their 2 year $10M offer. They then gave Amendola a 5 year deal at more money, or very similar money.

So it had nothing to do with the cap, which is the usual reason they let good players go.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Welker wasn't asking to break the bank. He went back to the Patriots to see if they would match the 2 year $12M offer, they said no. They had already moved on when he wouldn't sign their 2 year $10M offer. They then gave Amendola a 5 year deal at more money, or very similar money.

So it had nothing to do with the cap, which is the usual reason they let good players go.

can you not comprehend the actual sequence of events? They have been explained to you many, many times and yet you spread bad info.

1) Pats make Wes a final take it or leave it offer
2) Wes decides "leave it"
3a) Wes looks for a better offer & simultaneously
3b) Pats talk to Amendola, an in-demand "plan B"
4) Pats come to an agreement with Amendola
5) Wes decides his only good offer is Denver, but it's less than he wanted and, with incentives, less than the Pats take it or leave it offer
6) Wes contacts Kraft hoping for a re-do of that take it or leave it offer
7) Kraft tells him that some of his money is already spent, due to the timing, and he cannot even come up to the earlier take it or leave it offer. 2 years, 10 million is the most he can go (investing over 10 million in two slot receivers)
8) Wes becomes a Bronco



it's business, unfortunately.

Sometimes a take it or leave it offer means a take it or leave it offer, because you cannot wait for plan A to come through and put plan B at risk.

^^read this, S-L-O-W-L-Y,

It contains the basic facts that nobody disputes on either side.

 

[Nunchucks]

can you not comprehend the actual sequence of events? They have been explained to you many, many times and yet you spread bad info.

1) Pats make Wes a final take it or leave it offer
2) Wes decides "leave it"
3a) Wes looks for a better offer & simultaneously
3b) Pats talk to Amendola, an in-demand "plan B"
4) Pats come to an agreement with Amendola
5) Wes decides his only good offer is Denver, but it's less than he wanted and, with incentives, less than the Pats take it or leave it offer
6) Wes contacts Kraft hoping for a re-do of that take it or leave it offer
7) Kraft tells him that some of his money is already spent, due to the timing, and he cannot even come up to the earlier take it or leave it offer. 2 years, 10 million is the most he can go (investing over 10 million in two slot receivers)
8) Wes becomes a Bronco



it's business, unfortunately.

Sometimes a take it or leave it offer means a take it or leave it offer, because you cannot wait for plan A to come through and put plan B at risk.

^^read this, S-L-O-W-L-Y,

It contains the basic facts that nobody disputes on either side.

The one thing you are missing is that Welker had the entire "tampering period" to go and find offers and then come back to the Patriots and see if a deal could be done. Instead, he did not do that...Welker basically stated what he wanted and then went off to FA, only to find out that what he wanted did not exist.

 

[borg]

Was there ever a 2/15 Titans offer or was this just an internet legend

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The sad thing about that is that the Patriots could have had him and a deal like that, which is completely reasonable, could well have put them over the top, and there is enough waste to cut out enough to have made that a done deal. The Patriots are really well run financially but sometimes they really do need to push the envelope on certain deals to get them done and the team over the top.

It does appear to me from all I've read that in some instances like this the Pats org does fail to take the initiative for that last incremental step to facilitate a deal, possibly because they're so entrenched in their established negotiating position. Perhaps there was too much going on and they took their eye off the Welker ball in their haste to lock up DA to insure that they had somebody.

 

[Ivan]

It does appear to me from all I've read that in some instances like this the Pats org does fail to take the initiative for that last incremental step to facilitate a deal, possibly because they're so entrenched in their established negotiating position. Perhaps there was too much going on and they took their eye off the Welker ball in their haste to lock up DA to insure that they had somebody.

If they really didn't care that much whether he returned or not then that would be a likely scenario, however nothing supports Kraft's claim that they really wanted him back. It is blatantly obvious that is a lie and if it isn't then this team is in big trouble because if that is an example of the Patriots doing their best then they have really fallen off as an organization. They could have had him back easily but didn't make any effort whatsoever. To see them try and put the blame on Welker is as weak as it gets, he was the most productive receiver in football while he was here and they had the most productive offense in history with him as the go to guy, that they wouldn't pay him more than they gave Ochocinco demonstrates that they had absolutely no respect for him at all.


Honestly I would have much more respect for them if they had just come out and said they were really concerned about the beating he has taken and saw an opportunity to get a good young slot receiver that Brady could finish his career with, rather than this garbage that they tried their very best but Welker wanted too much, which is clearly a lie. Anyone who believes that must also believe they are completely incompetent as an organization.