Affording Changes To The Defensive Front Seven

[One-If-By-Sea]

So, Dugger is our free safety?

The free safety thing is a bit troubling, agreed. No-one really knows the plan. I doubt Dugger or Philips is the free safety but I think Dugger has rotated back there more than Philips. I am hoping on Bledsoe (the Captain will kill me for saying that - but he hated on another 6th rounder called Onwenu too so I am not sure how good the Captain is at judging 6 rounders ). The Pats brought Bledsoe back in December for no real reason, so I am hopeful the coaches like Perkins, McGrone, and Bledsoe who were all active for a few weeks in December. I do not remember Mills rotating back to free safety unless I am remiss.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't understand. The general rule is that it is harder to find a top-quality big body the lower in the draft you go, for the simple reason that there are a lot fewer people who are over 6 foot 3 inches and weigh more than 300 pounds than there are guys the size of a typical cornerback. BB certainly has done better finding some free agent cornerback gems than he has picking up any free agent interior linemen.

Trey Flowers and Wise were both 4th rounders I think. But in general you are correct - after the 3rd round there is rarely a serviceable DL rookie.

 

[captain stone]

I don't understand. The general rule is that it is harder to find a top-quality big body the lower in the draft you go, for the simple reason that there are a lot fewer people who are over 6 foot 3 inches and weigh more than 300 pounds than there are guys the size of a typical cornerback. BB certainly has done better finding some free agent cornerback gems than he has picking up any free agent interior linemen.

I also agree with the adage that A good big man beats a good little man, but if JC isn't retained for 2022 then our CB situation will reach Critical Mass... Also, Bill hasn't drafted a CB since the catastrophic SloJuan Willies pick, so we're due almost regardless of the JC situation.

 

[captain stone]

The free safety thing is a bit troubling, agreed. No-one really knows the plan. I doubt Dugger or Philips is the free safety but I think Dugger has rotated back there more than Philips. I am hoping on Bledsoe (the Captain will kill me for saying that - but he hated on another 6th rounder called Onwenu too so I am not sure how good the Captain is at judging 6 rounders )...

In my defense, I did think that Brady provided good value at #199 a few years back...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

In my defense, I did think that Brady provided good value at #199 a few years back...

Nice try. I would have tried it too. But anything over 20 years old is a dead duck. Sorry Captain you have to do better than 20+ year old semi-endorsements. Life is flying by and everyone has to keep up with the times. You are not qualified to comment on 6th round picks. Just the way the it is. Sometimes life is tough.

 

[upstater1]

I don't understand. The general rule is that it is harder to find a top-quality big body the lower in the draft you go, for the simple reason that there are a lot fewer people who are over 6 foot 3 inches and weigh more than 300 pounds than there are guys the size of a typical cornerback. BB certainly has done better finding some free agent cornerback gems than he has picking up any free agent interior linemen.

It's not a position with as many 1st round draft choices.

Last year, 5 CBs went in the first. 0 DTs/NTs.
2020: 6 CBs, 2 DTs (Derrick Brown, Rod Kinlaw).

Then you look at the top CBs in the NFL (according to PFF):

1. Jalen Ramsey, Los Angeles Rams. ...
2. Jaire Alexander, Green Bay Packers. ...
3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills. ...
4. Trevon Diggs, Dallas Cowboys. ...
5. Marlon Humphrey, Baltimore Ravens. ...
6. Marshon Lattimore, New Orleans Saints. ...
7. Xavien Howard, Miami Dolphins. ...
8. Stephon Gilmore, Carolina Panthers.
9. Denzel Ward
10. JC Jackson

JC is an anomaly. All the others are 1st round picks.

Then I look at what are considered the top DT/NTs and you have players like Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Grady Jarrett, DJ Reader who are in the top but aren't 1st rounders:

It really seems like you need to spend a 1st if you want an All-Pro CB but the opposite is not true.

 

[Guts]

Is there any good DTs/NTs in the draft this year? @BaconGrundleCandy

 

[Sicilian]

I was watching just about every team start off by running the ball successfully, then stop after the other team's nitwit offensive coordinator decided to "open up the playbook." I never bought into the notion that it was a good defense just b/c they were near the top of the league in least points allowed.

For a game or two, I can get behind this. But if you're seeing something like this happen all season, at some point the answer isn't just "everyone they played is stupid".

 

[ashley]

Barmore, Dugger, Judon and Phillips are the only keepers who are currently on the roster. Everywhere else needs upgrades.

J Jones, Mills, Uche, McGrone, Guy, Wise, Godchaux are not keepers in your eyes,, ust to name a few, plus if we resign JC and McCourty like I expect us to...that's two more

 

[Ring 6]

It's not a position with as many 1st round draft choices.

Last year, 5 CBs went in the first. 0 DTs/NTs.
2020: 6 CBs, 2 DTs (Derrick Brown, Rod Kinlaw).

Then you look at the top CBs in the NFL (according to PFF):

1. Jalen Ramsey, Los Angeles Rams. ...
2. Jaire Alexander, Green Bay Packers. ...
3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills. ...
4. Trevon Diggs, Dallas Cowboys. ...
5. Marlon Humphrey, Baltimore Ravens. ...
6. Marshon Lattimore, New Orleans Saints. ...
7. Xavien Howard, Miami Dolphins. ...
8. Stephon Gilmore, Carolina Panthers.
9. Denzel Ward
10. JC Jackson

JC is an anomaly. All the others are 1st round picks.

Then I look at what are considered the top DT/NTs and you have players like Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Grady Jarrett, DJ Reader who are in the top but aren't 1st rounders:

It really seems like you need to spend a 1st if you want an All-Pro CB but the opposite is not true.

Why would you use PFF to list the best corners then not use it to list the best “NT/DT” then list a bunch of 3 techs or 34 DEs.
By the way in what works is Stephon Gilmore a top 10 corner in 2021?

That aside, the common belief that you place a premium on BIG exceptionally athletic players because there are few of them is entirely true.
However that refers to dominant players that play every down.
Behemoth plodding run stoppers that play in the nose are not considered premium players and will go later in the draft.
The difference is whether you are trying to get Aaron Donald or Tony Siragusa

 

[TheRainMaker]

J Jones, Mills, Uche, McGrone, Guy, Wise, Godchaux are not keepers in your eyes,, ust to name a few, plus if we resign JC and McCourty like I expect us to...that's two more

This D has needed a nuclear bomb dropped on it for years but it will never happen. Sure Jones can stay, but he sure seems to have a bad habit of getting injured late in seasons. No to Mills as he can not play man. Uche was awful this year. Can’t trust McGone since he’s never played. Guy is over the hill. Wise and Godsmack are pedestrian. Their D line has been weak for years now constantly getting pushed back, yet we see the same guys trotting out there.

 

[captain stone]

Is there any good DTs/NTs in the draft this year? @BaconGrundleCandy

Jordan Davis & Devonte Wyatt of UGA, Phidarian Mathis of Alabama, Travis Jones of UConn & John Ridgeway of Arkansas are exactly the type of DTs we need but who will all likely be gone before Day 2 is over...

 

[Ring 6]

This D has needed a nuclear bomb dropped on it for years but it will never happen. Sure Jones can stay, but he sure seems to have a bad habit of getting injured late in seasons. No to Mills as he can not play man. Uche was awful this year. Can’t trust McGone since he’s never played. Guy is over the hill. Wise and Godsmack are pedestrian. Their D line has been weak for years now constantly getting pushed back, yet we see the same guys trotting out there.

Here are the defenses rankings in points allowed starting with most recent.
2
7
1
7
5
1

They made the playoffs in 5 of those 6 years, went to the SB in 3 of those 6 and won the SB in 2 of the 6.
So when did you think drooping a bomb in the middle if a defense that produced those results would be a good thing?
And why?

 

[upstater1]

Why would you use PFF to list the best corners then not use it to list the best “NT/DT” then list a bunch of 3 techs or 34 DEs.
By the way in what works is Stephon Gilmore a top 10 corner in 2021?

That aside, the common belief that you place a premium on BIG exceptionally athletic players because there are few of them is entirely true.
However that refers to dominant players that play every down.
Behemoth plodding run stoppers that play in the nose are not considered premium players and will go later in the draft.
The difference is whether you are trying to get Aaron Donald or Tony Siragusa

That's what popped on the Google search. I'm not getting you.

top nfl corners - Google Search

www.google.com

Top 25 defensive tackles heading into the 2021 NFL Season

The top defensive tackles are incredibly fun to watch, and 2021 is no exception. There are many talented young interior defenders in the NFL.

www.profootballnetwork.com

They were listed as DTs. If you're telling me there are a lot of 3-4 DEs in that list, then wouldn't that make my point even more?

Because there'd be even fewer DTs taken in the first round if you take away the ones that can also play end.

 

[Ring 6]

That's what popped on the Google search. I'm not getting you.

top nfl corners - Google Search

www.google.com

Top 25 defensive tackles heading into the 2021 NFL Season

The top defensive tackles are incredibly fun to watch, and 2021 is no exception. There are many talented young interior defenders in the NFL.

www.profootballnetwork.com

They were listed as DTs. If you're telling me there are a lot of 3-4 DEs in that list, then wouldn't that make my point even more?

Because there'd be even fewer DTs taken in the first round if you take away the ones that can also play end.

I’m saying you aren’t consistent in that 1) you use PFF as your guide for one position but not the other and 2) the discussion was about DT/NT types specifically and you included different types of players.

 

[Guts]

Jordan Davis & Devonte Wyatt of UGA, Phidarian Mathis of Alabama, Travis Jones of UConn & John Ridgeway of Arkansas are exactly the type of DTs we need but who will all likely be gone before Day 2 is over...

Thanks man I appreciate it

 

[upstater1]

I’m saying you aren’t consistent in that 1) you use PFF as your guide for one position but not the other and 2) the discussion was about DT/NT types specifically and you included different types of players.

???

I used the same source.

And that source considered those guys DTs.

Some DTs are 3-4 DEs in one scheme, but interior DTs in a 4-3. But I wasn't the one doing the rankings. I mean, I did provide links to ProfootballNetworks rankings, both CBs and DTs.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Thanks man I appreciate it

I add Perrion Winfrey from Oklahoma to the list.

 

[Ring 6]

???

I used the same source.

And that source considered those guys DTs.

Some DTs are 3-4 DEs in one scheme, but interior DTs in a 4-3. But I wasn't the one doing the rankings. I mean, I did provide links to ProfootballNetworks rankings, both CBs and DTs.

You posted “the top 10 corners according to PFF” and then “those considered the best NT/DT”. I’m saying his good is your comparison if it’s 2 different sources? Why not use PFF rankings for both?

Secondly you said you were talking about NT/DT which I consider a different group of players that DT/DE.
I was under the impression you were talking about a space eating run stopped while plays between the Gs not a smaller more mobile type who plays outside the G. They are different players.
“It’s what I googled” didn’t cheat that you for me.

 

[NormZauchin]

It's not a position with as many 1st round draft choices.

Last year, 5 CBs went in the first. 0 DTs/NTs.
2020: 6 CBs, 2 DTs (Derrick Brown, Rod Kinlaw).

Then you look at the top CBs in the NFL (according to PFF):

1. Jalen Ramsey, Los Angeles Rams. ...
2. Jaire Alexander, Green Bay Packers. ...
3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills. ...
4. Trevon Diggs, Dallas Cowboys. ...
5. Marlon Humphrey, Baltimore Ravens. ...
6. Marshon Lattimore, New Orleans Saints. ...
7. Xavien Howard, Miami Dolphins. ...
8. Stephon Gilmore, Carolina Panthers.
9. Denzel Ward
10. JC Jackson

JC is an anomaly. All the others are 1st round picks.

Then I look at what are considered the top DT/NTs and you have players like Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Grady Jarrett, DJ Reader who are in the top but aren't 1st rounders:

It really seems like you need to spend a 1st if you want an All-Pro CB but the opposite is not true.

I don't want to get into a numbers game, but 14 members of the NFL Hall of Fame were defense backs, (cornerbacks or safeties) taken in the first round. Eighteen members of the NFL Hall of Fame were defensive linemen (tackles or ends) taken in the first round.