Adios, Donald Brown

[BradyFTW!]

Sorry for the personal comment, but you can really be as stubborn as your avatar picture.
Here are Forte's numbers: 2015Chicago Bears 13 13 218 898 4.1 27 4 44 389 8.8 38 3 2 1
And you are still going on and on about “in-decline“ Forte. The only “decline“ there was at receiving from his NFL record breaking 2014. Its on the same level from previous years.

Comparing Forte to White is just absurd and not even fair to White. The expectations about Forte were made in relation to Lewis ACL. Most here agreed 9m$ guaranteed is excessive. You can make this point and don't need to go ad absurdum.

Miguel made a point several times already that Patriots can easily take care of not only High, Collins and Butler but also Sheard and some other starting FAs. The Forte millions would not change that. I do agree though that 9m$ guaranteed for a 30y RB is not the Patriot way.

Sorry for the personal comment, but you clearly don't have your facts straight re: Forte's career arc, which is something you may want to handle before criticizing others. Stones, glass houses, etc.

For starters, there was nothing record-breaking about Forte's 2014 season as a runner. He was and still is an extremely good receiving back--though not record-breaking--but that's not the point of contention here by any means. White actually matched Forte's 2014 production as a receiver in the time he had as the main back in that role.

The point of contention is Forte as a runner. Far from being record-breaking, 2014 was the start of a clear a downward trend from his 2010-2013 peak. I'm going to assume you've watched a lot of football, since you probably wouldn't be posting here otherwise. As such, I'm sure you're well aware of what happens to over-30 RBs with north of 2,500+ career touches. Every over-30 RB with multiple thousand career touches is in decline, zero exceptions, and in Forte's case the stats clearly bear it out.

You seem to be okay with paying a RB who is already in decline significant guaranteed money 3 years from now, but the Patriots simply aren't. And the fact that they're not is precisely the reason why they have enough cap room to take care of Hightower, Collins, Butler and potentially Sheard. And they're in a case where they should optimistically be able to do so, but it won't by any means be easy, provided that they're good this year. Butler and Collins, in particular, are likely to be the most valuable CB and LB on the market, and with the cap rising as it has it should be expected that they'll receive pretty much unheard of offers. If the Pats want to be in a position to match that, they're going to have to have as much cap space as reasonably possible.

To claim that they can reasonably guarantee Forte $10m because they haven't guaranteed money to guys like him in the past makes about as much sense as saying that because you've never blown your savings on scratch tickets now you have a bunch of money to blow on scratch tickets.

 

[hovis]

If a serious RB upgrade is needed, trading may be the way. I'd like to see maybe a 4th or 5th rounder go to CIN in exchange for Burkhead. He's in the final year of his rookie contract and buried down the depth chart. Could be an every down back IMHO.

 

[long distance]

Sorry for the personal comment, but you clearly don't have your facts straight re: Forte's career arc, which is something you may want to handle before criticizing others. Stones, glass houses, etc.

For starters, there was nothing record-breaking about Forte's 2014 season as a runner.

The point of contention is Forte as a runner. Far from being record-breaking, 2014 was the start of a clear a downward trend from his 2010-2013 peak. I'm going to assume you've watched a lot of football, since you probably wouldn't be posting here otherwise.

Nobody was talking about runner. We were talking about RB “in-decline“:
Bears' Forte sets record for receptions by RB

Normally I would stop here but it was a nice reply from your part so let me just say that I actually didn't watch a lot of football (preferred other sports) and I am posting here because its a great board about a great story (BB and the Patriots way) that goes beyond football and sport. Of course with time you get drawn into things that you actually shouldn't care about (like some statistics ...). But its true that I am learning a lot from all of you. My insight is coming from other walks of life and I hope its sometimes useful.

In this particular case it was partly a minor reaction to stubbornness-ad-absurdum (not only from your part) which is really not necessary and sometimes takes over the point (and the threads) - and partly a note from my part about unbearable lightness in using the word decline.

Regarding the value of NE players you must know that this board loves them a little bit more than other GMs. In this sense I prefer to trust Miguel and I believe that if BB wants to keep High, Collins, Sheard, Butler plus some others - he can. Forte or no Forte.

 

[Ross12]

If a serious RB upgrade is needed, trading may be the way. I'd like to see maybe a 4th or 5th rounder go to CIN in exchange for Burkhead. He's in the final year of his rookie contract and buried down the depth chart. Could be an every down back IMHO.

Nice find... hadn't thought of Burkhead. He's not bad.

 

[DaBruinz]

The last thing I want to do here is argue with you. You can have it.
(Selective reading of statistics is a highway to nonsense)
I wonder though if people have the same standards for decline in their lives.

The other argument about him being injured at the end of the season is a valid one.
But Pats were still considering him although according to Forte with “minor interest“.

Selective reading of stats? You're the one guilty of that since you looked at just his receptions from 2014.
I took 3 of the major categories for RBs. Carries. Yards. Yards Per carry. You can't argue with facts. His numbers were down from 2013 to 2014 and again from 2014 to 2015. That's a downward trend.

He's also going to be 31 in December. 30 is the age that RBs tend to go down hill.

And, it was just that he was injured at the end of the season. Forte has missed most of Jets TC with a hamstring injury.

 

[DaBruinz]

If a serious RB upgrade is needed, trading may be the way. I'd like to see maybe a 4th or 5th rounder go to CIN in exchange for Burkhead. He's in the final year of his rookie contract and buried down the depth chart. Could be an every down back IMHO.

What has Burkhead shown that says every down back to you? I'm curious because I know nothing about him other than his college scouting report.

Also, wouldn't a 4th or 5th round pick be over-paying for a guy buried deep on the Bengals depth chart? Especially one that was a 6th rounder?

 

[RayClay]

If a serious RB upgrade is needed, trading may be the way. I'd like to see maybe a 4th or 5th rounder go to CIN in exchange for Burkhead. He's in the final year of his rookie contract and buried down the depth chart. Could be an every down back IMHO.

You are very generous. A fourth rounder for a sixth rounder who's hardly played in 3 years.

 

[DaBruinz]

so what about DJ Spiller ? .... Saints may be in search for a new DT

Knile Davis probably still best option .... Kansas City is in search at DE and CB

Tennessee would like to get something for Sankey ...

BTW, pretty sure you meant CJ Spiller. Also, why would the Saints let him go over say Tim Hightower or Travaris Cadet?

 

[Jackson 2]

Hm... Maybe you guys bring in Karlos Williams or Hillman if Denver lets him go?

Though Karlos is meeting with the Jets as I type this.

How did his fat ass fit over the Tappan Zee Bridge?

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Maybe we've been feeding DJ Foster while he's been out if we could add 20 pounds of muscle to that frame he would be elite.

 

[JetFan79]

I like Hillman, he could be a useful addition. Williams not so much. I don't want anything to do with any RB who needs to lose 30 pounds to get down to his playing weight. Maybe next year if he spends the next ~9 months training like a professional athlete should and getting his body prepared for an NFL season.

Yup, I like Hillman too. Especially for the Pats. He'd kill it up in NE.

So as a Jet fan, sure hope it doesn't happen. You guys have enough weapons as it is. Besides, White is pretty darn good himself. In fact, I think there's a possibility he plays well enough to win the job over Lewis.

As a Fantasy player, I really hope Hillman doesn’t go to NE. The second I heard the Lewis news, I dropped my IDP for White. May have just gotten a PPR RB2 for nothing.

Karlos though is another story. Think you guys need someone who can contribute right away, and obviously that's not Karlos. Given the suspension and weight issue.

The Jets on the other hand, are pretty much set at RB for now (knock on wood since injuries can easily change that). So I wouldn't mind taking Karlos for cheap with no expectations. We don't need anything from him right away, and he's definitely young n talented.

Sure there are some issues with him, but there are plenty of things worse than weed and being overweight. If this wakes him up and he turns things around?... some team will have a very good young RB. Or worst case, a cheap roster spot wasted.

I don't mind the gamble for a guy who could come in the second half of the season ready to roll.

 

[hovis]

Ya maybe a 4th is too much, but if they can move him with mid to late round pick it could be worth a shot. His regular season stats don't show much; but they won't over there - he's buried. My opinion is based on observing him in limited action in the playoffs and preseason. Yes, I know his '14 game was against the Colts, but you can tell he has good vision, agility, and balance. Plus he's a decent receiver.

He got a ton of work last week and performed well. I wouldn't be shocked if they were showcasing him.

 

[long distance]

Maybe we've been feeding DJ Foster while he's been out if we could add 20 pounds of muscle to that frame he would be elite.

He does look like they were feeding him ...

 

[Ross12]

It's my binky Foster's time to shine!

 

[supafly]

Yup, I like Hillman too. Especially for the Pats. He'd kill it up in NE.

So as a Jet fan, sure hope it doesn't happen. You guys have enough weapons as it is. Besides, White is pretty darn good himself. In fact, I think there's a possibility he plays well enough to win the job over Lewis.

As a Fantasy player, I really hope Hillman doesn’t go to NE. The second I heard the Lewis news, I dropped my IDP for White. May have just gotten a PPR RB2 for nothing.

Karlos though is another story. Think you guys need someone who can contribute right away, and obviously that's not Karlos. Given the suspension and weight issue.

The Jets on the other hand, are pretty much set at RB for now (knock on wood since injuries can easily change that). So I wouldn't mind taking Karlos for cheap with no expectations. We don't need anything from him right away, and he's definitely young n talented.

Sure there are some issues with him, but there are plenty of things worse than weed and being overweight. If this wakes him up and he turns things around?... some team will have a very good young RB. Or worst case, a cheap roster spot wasted.

I don't mind the gamble for a guy who could come in the second half of the season ready to roll.

I think you made a decent move in terms of dropping your individual defensive player for James White, particularly in a PPR format. That said, what commish allows this to happen?

As far as Karlos Williams goes, he's probably a fatter, lazier version of Jonas Gray, who already knows our system, is a bigger type of runner with a similar style, and just happens to be a free agent at the moment. Since we're obviously not interested in bringing him back, I'd have to doubt that we'll be considering Williams.

 

[supafly]

It's my binky Foster's time to shine!

Harper's Muff--Version 2.0

(I'm a ****, I know )

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

In years past, I can recall the Pats cutting one or two guys before cutdown days but the 4-5 guys they have wacked recently seems unusual. Oh well.

They usually cut a few guys earlier (tend to be veterans) earlier rather than later so they can catch on with other teams. Probably more of a good will gesture than anything. Not sure in Donald Brown's case that anyone would want him though. Good luck Donald - we hardly knew you.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They usually cut a few guys earlier (tend to be veterans) earlier rather than later so they can catch on with other teams. Probably more of a good will gesture than anything. Not sure in Donald Brown's case that anyone would want him though. Good luck Donald - we hardly knew you.

Agree. I remember back in the early BB days they had a stretch of 3 or so years in which an OLineman retired right in the beginning of camp

 

[Ross12]

Harper's Muff--Version 2.0

(I'm a ****, I know )

I know.... if Foster commits such a sin this year I will swear off binky-ship forever.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yup, I like Hillman too. Especially for the Pats. He'd kill it up in NE.

So as a Jet fan, sure hope it doesn't happen. You guys have enough weapons as it is. Besides, White is pretty darn good himself. In fact, I think there's a possibility he plays well enough to win the job over Lewis.

As a Fantasy player, I really hope Hillman doesn’t go to NE. The second I heard the Lewis news, I dropped my IDP for White. May have just gotten a PPR RB2 for nothing.

Karlos though is another story. Think you guys need someone who can contribute right away, and obviously that's not Karlos. Given the suspension and weight issue.

The Jets on the other hand, are pretty much set at RB for now (knock on wood since injuries can easily change that). So I wouldn't mind taking Karlos for cheap with no expectations. We don't need anything from him right away, and he's definitely young n talented.

Sure there are some issues with him, but there are plenty of things worse than weed and being overweight. If this wakes him up and he turns things around?... some team will have a very good young RB. Or worst case, a cheap roster spot wasted.

I don't mind the gamble for a guy who could come in the second half of the season ready to roll.

Yeah, fair enough. If you can spare the roster spot, there are definitely worse gambles to take than a guy that averaged five and a half YPC last season. If you sign him to a multi-year deal, at some point it may be worth just stashing him on IR and putting him on a strict training regimen, then telling him to come back ready next year.

Personally, I'm pessimistic. I think the kind of guy that lets himself get up into the 260s in his first NFL offseason after tasting some bare minimum of success is the kind of guy who isn't going to put in the work to stay in the NFL. But the potential is there for a flyer if someone is inclined to take one.