Adios, Donald Brown

[BradyFTW!]

You've concluded he's at some level, just as I have, regardless of what that level might be. Without doing so, you couldn't have made your initial claim about where Forte would rank in comparison to him, so stop with the straw man. And, given that you've already stated your opinion of White's level, in this very thread:



I think we should just dismiss this post of yours and move on.

Yes, I have stated that I think White is bad at running between the tackles based on what I've seen so far. Very bad. I've also stated that Forte, at this point in his career, isn't a whole lot better and will only keep getting worse. These statements are not mutually exclusive.

Separately, using White's 2.5 YPC on 22 total carries to conclude that he's "absolute horseshit" in comparison to Forte's 4.1 YPC is both nonsense and disingenuous. When Brandon Bolden's first 23 carries went for 152 yards, I'm sure you were at the front of the line warning people that that was way too small of a sample size to declare that he's an elite, 6.3 YPC runner. Yet you have no issue with burying White over an equally tiny sample size.

I dunno why you keep shifting the goalposts around here, I've been consistent throughout: White is bad between the tackles. Forte is better, but not much. If White had 210 carries for Chicago last year, he'd do much better than 2.5 YPC, partly because pretty much anyone will get well over 2.5 YPC when given more than 22 carries, and partly because any impression reached on White after 30 career carries is pretty much by definition premature. He's looked awful to date, but it's overwhelmingly likely that if he was given more than 22 carries (and more than 3 in a single game) he'd look at least moderately better than he has.

 

[jefmblrd]

BB on releasing players prior to cut-down day:

From Mike Petraglia:
"We have more players than we can play against Carolina. If we can release them now... gives player opportunity." BB

From Phil Perry:
Belichick says that some of the recent early releases (before first cut-down day) are probably best for the players, but not main reason.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm more concerned about many other issues than I am about RB.
We are not a RB-centric team. As long as the guys we have stay reasonably healthy, we won't be losing because of the RB position. Blount is fine and Gaffney looks better than any backup (not including passing game back) we have had in a while.
White is fine as a passing game back. The concern is how well we run out of that, but honestly, if the OL is even decent, any back can be effective running shot gun draws out of our spread, especially with Gronk and MartysaurusRex as TEs.

I am more worried about:
-Hoping that Cannons play last year was heavily affected by his foot injury
-Interior OL
-Health along the DL
-Health at WR
-Depth at LB
-Jimmy G being able to handle it and not give away home games that we would have zero chance of losing if Brady didn't get railroaded.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm more concerned about many other issues than I am about RB.
We are not a RB-centric team. As long as the guys we have stay reasonably healthy, we won't be losing because of the RB position. Blount is fine and Gaffney looks better than any backup (not including passing game back) we have had in a while.
White is fine as a passing game back. The concern is how well we run out of that, but honestly, if the OL is even decent, any back can be effective running shot gun draws out of our spread, especially with Gronk and MartysaurusRex as TEs.

I am more worried about:
-Hoping that Cannons play last year was heavily affected by his foot injury
-Interior OL
-Health along the DL
-Health at WR
-Depth at LB
-Jimmy G being able to handle it and not give away home games that we would have zero chance of losing if Brady didn't get railroaded.

Add in "keeping our cap sheet clean to maximize our shot at locking up our young impending FAs" and I couldn't agree more.

 

[Ring 6]

Add in "keeping our cap sheet clean to maximize our shot at locking up our young impending FAs" and I couldn't agree more.

You cannot have superstars at every position. BB has a philosophy of what areas he most values stars, and which areas are easiest to get by with decent. He strives to have a stud at every spot on the field but realizes that the chance of getting one depends on the resources you put into it and the resources are limited.
So he puts the resources where the DIFFERENCE between mediocre and stud is most important.
I see no realistic way that anyone can argue with Bill Belichick's overall assessment about those criteria above, and have any way of honestly thinking they know better.
So given that I see that BB abhors spending resources on the RB position, and therefore believes that just getting by at RB is good enough, and finding a great player for cheap is the hope, but paying heavily for the position is not valuable.

 

[long distance]

With the added caveat that we have a bunch of our own young talent that requires big pay raises within the next year. Maybe some people are willing to throw substantial guaranteed money at in-decline RBs on the wrong side of 30, but I'm absolutely not. Not if it makes our chances of re-upping Collins/Butler/Hightower even 5% less likely.

Sorry for the personal comment, but you can really be as stubborn as your avatar picture.
Here are Forte's numbers: 2015Chicago Bears

- Games: 13
- Games Started: 13
- Rushing Attempts: 218
- Rushing Yards: 898
- Yards per Rush: 4.1
- Longest Rush: 27
- Rushing Touchdowns: 4
- Receptions: 44
- Receiving Yards: 389
- Yards per Reception: 8.8
- Longest Reception: 38
- Receiving Touchdowns: 3
- Fumbles: 2
- Fumbles Lost: 1
- Yards from Scrimmage: 1,287​

And you are still going on and on about “in-decline“ Forte. The only “decline“ there was at receiving from his NFL record breaking 2014. Its on the same level from previous years.

Comparing Forte to White is just absurd and not even fair to White. The expectations about Forte were made in relation to Lewis ACL. Most here agreed 9m$ guaranteed is excessive. You can make this point and don't need to go ad absurdum.

Miguel made a point several times already that Patriots can easily take care of not only High, Collins and Butler but also Sheard and some other starting FAs. The Forte millions would not change that. I do agree though that 9m$ guaranteed for a 30y RB is not the Patriot way.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry for the personal comment, but you can really be as stubborn as your avatar picture.
Here are Forte's numbers: 2015Chicago Bears 13 13 218 898 4.1 27 4 44 389 8.8 38 3 2 1
And you are still going on and on about “in-decline“ Forte. The only “decline“ there was at receiving from his NFL record breaking 2014. Its on the same level from previous years.

Comparing Forte to White is just absurd and not even fair to White. The expectations about Forte were made in relation to Lewis ACL. Most here agreed 9m$ guaranteed is excessive. You can make this point and don't need to go ad absurdum.

Miguel made a point several times already that Patriots can easily take care of not only High, Collins and Butler but also Sheard and some other starting FAs. The Forte millions would not change that. I do agree though that 9m$ guaranteed for a 30y RB is not the Patriot way.

Miguel is certainly an expert, and in fact a genius at the ins and outs of the cap. What he isn't is someone who knows the inner working of the teams strategy and long term plans.
So while he can tell you better than anyone what can be done under the cap, he cannot really tell you that there is room to do X because he doesn't know what the team considers the alternative.

 

[IllegalContact]

dude sucked anyway

 

[JetFan79]

Hm... Maybe you guys bring in Karlos Williams or Hillman if Denver lets him go?

Though Karlos is meeting with the Jets as I type this.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not reaching for Forte hurts now for sure.

Forte will be 31 in December and is coming off knee and ankle injuries that ended last season. He has averaged 250 rushes and 60 receptions during his 8 seasons with the Bears. That's a ton of mileage. And he's missed quite a big of Jets TC with a hamstring issue..

 

[DaBruinz]

Forte ran for 4.1 last year, on 218 carries. James White racked up the whopping 2.5. If you've seen something about Forte during this training camp, I'm more than willing to have you pass that on. Otherwise, your hyperbole is in overdrive.

The Bears O-line didn't have the same injury issues the Pats O-line did. God forbid you acknowledge that and stop acting like everything was White' fault.

 

[DaBruinz]

You've concluded he's at some level, just as I have, regardless of what that level might be. Without doing so, you couldn't have made your initial claim about where Forte would rank in comparison to him, so stop with the straw man. And, given that you've already stated your opinion of White's level, in this very thread:

The only strawman is you claiming that White sucks and trying to make the comparison to Forte without acknowledging the difference in O-lines.

 

[IllegalContact]

you heard it here: Forte = Marion Butts

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Just read that Ridley might not make it in Detroit, mostly due to how their 7th round pick has been excelling and would be a better value. I know the guy has a Jets tattoo and been in the fumblerooski doghouse, but...

Ridley would be a great choice to bring back if we wanted to have someone that fumbles the ball in big games

 

[DaBruinz]

Sorry for the personal comment, but you can really be as stubborn as your avatar picture.
Here are Forte's numbers: 2015Chicago Bears 13 13 218 898 4.1 27 4 44 389 8.8 38 3 2 1
And you are still going on and on about “in-decline“ Forte. The only “decline“ there was at receiving from his NFL record breaking 2014. Its on the same level from previous years.

Actually, Forte's YPC has been on a declining slope since 2011 when he had a 4.9YPC on 203 carries.
Also, Forte had the most number of carries in his career in 2013, when he had 289. He also had the most number of yards at 1,339 and a YPC of 4.6.

In 2014, he had 266 carries for 1089 yards and a 3.9 YPC
As, as you mentioned, in 2015, he had 218 carries for 898 yards and a 4.1 YPC.

Unfortunately, there is a downward trend from 2013. For you to say there there isn't a decline is just nonsensical.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

They're only good because they literally tanked an entire season intentionally to draft Luck.

Fixed that for you

 

[fnordcircle]

I predicted that he'd be a surprise value addition. Another feather in my 'fnordcircle is a football genius' cap.

 

[JackBauer]

And nothing of value was lost.

 

[long distance]

Actually, Forte's YPC has been on a declining slope since 2011 when he had a 4.9YPC on 203 carries.
Also, Forte had the most number of carries in his career in 2013, when he had 289. He also had the most number of yards at 1,339 and a YPC of 4.6.

In 2014, he had 266 carries for 1089 yards and a 3.9 YPC
As, as you mentioned, in 2015, he had 218 carries for 898 yards and a 4.1 YPC.

Unfortunately, there is a downward trend from 2013. For you to say there there isn't a decline is just nonsensical.

The last thing I want to do here is argue with you. You can have it.
(Selective reading of statistics is a highway to nonsense)
I wonder though if people have the same standards for decline in their lives.

The other argument about him being injured at the end of the season is a valid one.
But Pats were still considering him although according to Forte with “minor interest“.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Hm... Maybe you guys bring in Karlos Williams or Hillman if Denver lets him go?

Though Karlos is meeting with the Jets as I type this.

I like Hillman, he could be a useful addition. Williams not so much. I don't want anything to do with any RB who needs to lose 30 pounds to get down to his playing weight. Maybe next year if he spends the next ~9 months training like a professional athlete should and getting his body prepared for an NFL season.