A little bit of Pepper

[supafly]

The fact of the matter is he is UNPROVEN as an 3-4 OLB why is anyone going to pay big money to someone who is unproven. Yes, he was the second overall pick, but he was a DEFENSIVE END!! He has to transition to OLB and that might take some time!! I think its possible he will take less because he admitted that he has money and wants a ring( his agent didnt say it, it came out of his own mouth). Believe what you want but everyone is seeing him being paid big money as a DE!!

That is not what I said, I claimed if he/his agent had ANY brains, they will want something that is acceptable in the middle of what he's worth as a DE, and a decent LB salary, something like a 'hybrid' Suggs DE/LB deal. I am sure he feels that he is worth more than the 6 million you are guessing at. But the bottom line that you keep forgetting is that he has to sign the tender at 17 million. The team who makes the trade then has to have 17 million in cap space. They THEN can immediately re-structure a deal with a fairer cap hit. That cap hit would most likely fall in the range of 9-11 million, maybe even more if he wanted to set the bar for 'hybrid' DE/LB's.

We don't have 17 million in room, we have less than 4 million. Even if we somehow miracle-wise came up with that room per NFL rules, we still would need a ton of money, and still need that comparable money for our own 2 or 3 bigger money players, who we can't even afford now. You are also undervaluing his salary demands and player abilities--no matter what his position is.

The only thing you are correct about, is that it would ultimately, in the long run--save the team money, down from his 17 million as a DE. Once again, we've been over this for weeks now, but whomever trades for him, must have the 17 million in cap space per the franchise tender. Just like Matt Cassel. The team who trades may then work out a restructured cap hit and contract, but it wouldn't be for 6 million--even if he played center.

 

[DocE]

I would have interest in Peppers, but as others have stated in this thread, not at anywhere near 17 million a year. If Peppers is willing to play in New England for a contract that averages somewhere south of 8.5 million a season, I am all for it. Just for fun, here's my proposal and subsequent 1st day of the draft. New England sends no.23, no.89, and Jarvis Green to Carolina for Julius Peppers and no. 128. According to Miguels cap figues, we'd have slightly more than 6 million of cap space to fit in a Peppers contract for 2009. A signing bonus and a small base salary in year one should allow the contract to fit.

34. Jarron Gilbert- replacing Green and insurance in case Seymour can't be re-signed.

47. Louis Delmas/William Moore/Patrick Chung- best Safety available

58. Jamon Meredith T/G- depth and insurance against FA defections after '09

We could save over 2 million against the cap by releasing/trading Kevin Faulk or Stephen Neal. On paper, it makes so much sense to cut Faulk, but that's only on paper. I can't cut a guy who continually comes up huge in the biggest moments of games. I trust him more than ay guy on the team. Neal is a little tougher decision, but there is no denying that the OL is much more effective with him at RG than it is without him in the lineup.

 

[supafly]

I would have interest in Peppers, but as others have stated in this thread, not at anywhere near 17 million a year. If Peppers is willing to play in New England for a contract that averages somewhere south of 8.5 million a season, I am all for it. Just for fun, here's my proposal and subsequent 1st day of the draft. New England sends no.23, no.89, and Jarvis Green to Carolina for Julius Peppers and no. 128. According to Miguels cap figues, we'd have slightly more than 6 million of cap space to fit in a Peppers contract for 2009. A signing bonus and a small base salary in year one should allow the contract to fit.

34. Jarron Gilbert- replacing Green and insurance in case Seymour can't be re-signed.

47. Louis Delmas/William Moore/Patrick Chung- best Safety available

58. Jamon Meredith T/G- depth and insurance against FA defections after '09

We could save over 2 million against the cap by releasing/trading Kevin Faulk or Stephen Neal. On paper, it makes so much sense to cut Faulk, but that's only on paper. I can't cut a guy who continually comes up huge in the biggest moments of games. I trust him more than ay guy on the team. Neal is a little tougher decision, but there is no denying that the OL is much more effective with him at RG than it is without him in the lineup.

How do we get the 17 million in cap space that we'd need per NFL rules to trade for Peppers? Any team that trades for him must be able to have enough cap room to suffice his franchise tender? After that, we could then restructure his cap hit and contract.

And according to Miguel I thought we had a little less than 4 million right now? We also only have 51 out of 53 players signed and accounted for, and need a certain amount for the draft. We are pretty much cap strapped.

As far as cutting Neal or Faulk, I guess if I had to pick it'd be Neal, I don't know. I really can't see cutting Faulk. Your draft trade scenario isn't the problem, we could tempt Carolina with our picks for a trade, but it's the cap room that wouldn't work.

 

[supafly]

I believe the only way to obtain Peppers is for him to turn down the franchise tender, becoming a free agent. (again,so to speak) Unless Carolina would decide to cut him, but I believe they'd certainly need lots of incentive to do so.

If Carolina would cut him, we'd then be able to try and negotiate some sort of "fair" contract with him--although for them to do so, I think obviously a deal would already be in place. His agent can go to his team and request some sort of fair trade deal, in which part Carolina would have to agree and accept.

Otherwise, we'd need to cover his tender then re-structure his cap hit and contract. I thought we went over this many times, but I could be wrong.

I know that NFL rules dictate that a tag and trade requires the team being traded to--to be able to immediately cover the franchise tender cost. I could be wrong. If I am someone will step in with a biting remark I'm sure.

Regardless, even if we get around the major initial cap hit, which I'm sure is possible--we still couldn't afford the new, lesser, cap hit, which is still very high, one way or another

 

[CoachK]

Leaving the legal/cap machinations aside, I would love Peppers (but not if it means losing Big Vince).

 

[bagwell368]

it's a pipe dream. even if came in at $8M per, cuts to useful players with replacement of min sal guys - no

he is below average against the run

he is an unknown in coverage

he will probably only play passing downs

he will move the Pats towards a Colts type team with six guys making most of the money. It isn't the top six Pats that make our teams. It is the 7th - 40th guys that make our teams, this move would only damage that goal and that reality.

No.

 

[Feep50]

I would have interest in Peppers, but as others have stated in this thread, not at anywhere near 17 million a year. If Peppers is willing to play in New England for a contract that averages somewhere south of 8.5 million a season, I am all for it. Just for fun, here's my proposal and subsequent 1st day of the draft. New England sends no.23, no.89, and Jarvis Green to Carolina for Julius Peppers and no. 128. According to Miguels cap figues, we'd have slightly more than 6 million of cap space to fit in a Peppers contract for 2009. A signing bonus and a small base salary in year one should allow the contract to fit.

34. Jarron Gilbert- replacing Green and insurance in case Seymour can't be re-signed.

47. Louis Delmas/William Moore/Patrick Chung- best Safety available

58. Jamon Meredith T/G- depth and insurance against FA defections after '09

We could save over 2 million against the cap by releasing/trading Kevin Faulk or Stephen Neal. On paper, it makes so much sense to cut Faulk, but that's only on paper. I can't cut a guy who continually comes up huge in the biggest moments of games. I trust him more than ay guy on the team. Neal is a little tougher decision, but there is no denying that the OL is much more effective with him at RG than it is without him in the lineup.

I love this post! It's so logical and oozes with good sense......

Peppers, Rookies at DE, Safety and OL would be a fantastic FA/draft.....

Great post, DocE!

 

[VJCPatriot]

James Harrison of the Steelers has already set how much a high level OLB will go for and thats about 8.7 mil per year. Peppers has no experience in being a 3-4 OLB. His value dropped when he said he wanted to play OLB. Now being unproven as an OLB i could see him coming here for 6 a year! And if we send Jarvis Green with a draft pick or two that would clear up enough space to have pepper fit under the cap.

Peppers is NOT going to accept 6M a year. He'd want James Harrison money at a minimum.

 

[mosslost]

Peppers is NOT going to accept 6M a year. He'd want James Harrison money at a minimum.

Even if we could sign him for $6 Mil, it would be a tight fit, not to mention the rookies.

On that note, Taylor's 2008 salary was $7.5 Million.

 

[patsfaninpa]

How do we get the 17 million in cap space that we'd need per NFL rules to trade for Peppers? Any team that trades for him must be able to have enough cap room to suffice his franchise tender? After that, we could then restructure his cap hit and contract.

And according to Miguel I thought we had a little less than 4 million right now? We also only have 51 out of 53 players signed and accounted for, and need a certain amount for the draft. We are pretty much cap strapped.

As far as cutting Neal or Faulk, I guess if I had to pick it'd be Neal, I don't know. I really can't see cutting Faulk. Your draft trade scenario isn't the problem, we could tempt Carolina with our picks for a trade, but it's the cap room that wouldn't work.

Stop trying to throw some common sense into this argument. I don't see any way in hell we can get 17m in cap room. Even if we adjust it down after we trade for him and sign him to a long term contract. Belichick said on the Big Show on WEEI he has to sign the franchise tender if he wants to get traded. The team he's traded to has to have enough
room to import that salary into their cap. Don't see how we can swing it.

 

[supafly]

Stop trying to throw some common sense into this argument. I don't see any way in hell we can get 17m in cap room. Even if we adjust it down after we trade for him and sign him to a long term contract. Belichick said on the Big Show on WEEI he has to sign the franchise tender if he wants to get traded. The team he's traded to has to have enough
room to import that salary into their cap. Don't see how we can swing it.

Never under-estimate fantasy football economics