2010/11 Starters: Mankins, Koppen, Connolly

[JoeShmoe]

It will be interesting to see what they do with Light, Mankins and Kazcur

Kazcur could play RG but my opinion is once he's fit Cannon will gradually start to take over there. As is stands now Connolly will start

Koppen will get replaced next year (Mike Brewster please)

 

[patsfan-1982]

And you think that Cannon plays defensive end?

And just BTW, it is only posters who have the view that our OL problem is at center. Others though that we need an OT and and OG. Curiously, Belichick and the mediots were on the same page. Solder was the #2 OT and Cannon was the #2 OG (and the best Day 3 pick in the draft) on Gosselin's board.

So, we are where we are almost always, poster disagreeiong with Belichick's assessments. And that's fine. Belichick drafted a top OT and a top OG and that is not enough OL help. GREAT! I too wanted a 3rd offensive lineman, but I do realize that two is enough to absorb in one year.

the Cannon pick is my fav pick of the Draft but he may not play this year and Nate Solder could be the next great OT but will he be better then a pro bowl LT day one ? so unless Light comes back and plays RG Dan Connolly is still a starter for 2011 witch IMO means no upgrade

 

[DarrylS]

The hidden factor here is who can Scarnechia "coach up" to become a quality interior O Lineman...

As the free agent period will be a feeding frenzy, we will probably be able to grab someone.. but Connolly has had another year of seasoning, and probably will be able to meet the need.

 

[Nunchucks]

Cannon is supposedly going to be ready for camp. Connolly is blah at guard...Koppen definitely had problems handling the more powerful DTs in the league.

Solder is raw...he only started at LT for 3 years.

 

[randomk1]

Cannon was easily my favourite pick in the draft. I'm praying for his recovery and that he proves good enough to beat out Connolly. For a man that big he moves pretty well. He's gonna be a beast in the running game.

 

[Ring 6]

Cannon is supposedly going to be ready for camp. Connolly is blah at guard...Koppen definitely had problems handling the more powerful DTs in the league.

Solder is raw...he only started at LT for 3 years.

How many years do you expect a college LT to start for? Most of the best ones leave after their Jr year anyway

 

[Kasmir]

Connolly wasn't a starting quality guard in 2010. He was a backup forced to start, and he played like it.

You just endlessly assert this as if repetition will make it true. Connolly started and performed well last year. Not perfectly, he had his bad plays and his bad games, but he had great plays and good games as well. For most of last year, he was manifestly a "starting quality guard" for one team. How could you possibly even know that he's worse than all the 62 other "starting guards" in the league? Somehow I don't think you studied game film of every NFL team personally. So you read this somewhere, or someone told you? What's your basis for slamming this guy so often?

I hope you're not claiming that he couldn't possibly have improved from year to year. Connolly was an all-conference tackle from a small school (Southeast Missouri State), meaning he came into the league as an unheralded free agent, and had to move inside. He was injured in training camp his rookie season (2006) with Jacksonville and placed on IR. He was cut at the end of next year's (2007) training camp. That happens with free agents, and it was clearly a mistake in retrospect -- no one, not even you, is claiming he doesn't belong on an NFL roster. In 2008 he was signed by the Patriots and made it through training camp, only to be cut, signed to the practice squad, then brought onto the active roster late in the season. He made the team in 2009 and ended up starting in 2010. Sounds like a storybook small-school improvement story. Who are you to say it's finished? He was lucky to get his chance and has made the most of it, and has steadily improved. Happens sometimes. What's your basis for deciding he hasn't been improved to the point he's "starting quality", let alone to judge that he's finished improving?

I watched and re-watched every down last year and, largely because of your incessant sniping, I paid a lot of attention to Connolly. He's a finesse guard, not a mauler, and did a damn fine job as a pulling guard last year. He made numerous key blocks springing important running plays. He was sometimes overpowered, but most of his bad plays were occasional mistakes in pass protection, and with many of those it was unclear who on the line actually screwed up. Most of the errors were between he and Koppen, and we've certainly seen Koppen screw up long before Connolly showed up (he and Mankins looked like they were lost in the superbowl), It's quite possible that Connolly will continue to learn and improve. Hell, if he can shotgun snap, I'd like to see him compete with Koppen at center.

He's no all-pro and likely never will be. But he started for a very good offensive line last year, and played very well most of the time. He certainly can be improved upon, but it's very hard to believe there are 64 better guards in the league. You certainly haven't made the case for that.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

How many years do you expect a college LT to start for? Most of the best ones leave after their Jr year anyway

I believe Nunchucks' point is that Solder has three years at LT total, as he came to college as a TE, but quickly grew to the point where that didn't make much sense. That said, he did basically win the LT position the first season he tried playing. . . .

 

[Deus Irae]

You just endlessly assert this as if repetition will make it true. Connolly started and performed well last year. Not perfectly, he had his bad plays and his bad games, but he had great plays and good games as well. For most of last year, he was manifestly a "starting quality guard" for one team. How could you possibly even know that he's worse than all the 62 other "starting guards" in the league? Somehow I don't think you studied game film of every NFL team personally. So you read this somewhere, or someone told you? What's your basis for slamming this guy so often?

I hope you're not claiming that he couldn't possibly have improved from year to year. Connolly was an all-conference tackle from a small school (Southeast Missouri State), meaning he came into the league as an unheralded free agent, and had to move inside. He was injured in training camp his rookie season (2006) with Jacksonville and placed on IR. He was cut at the end of next year's (2007) training camp. That happens with free agents, and it was clearly a mistake in retrospect -- no one, not even you, is claiming he doesn't belong on an NFL roster. In 2008 he was signed by the Patriots and made it through training camp, only to be cut, signed to the practice squad, then brought onto the active roster late in the season. He made the team in 2009 and ended up starting in 2010. Sounds like a storybook small-school improvement story. Who are you to say it's finished? He was lucky to get his chance and has made the most of it, and has steadily improved. Happens sometimes. What's your basis for deciding he hasn't been improved to the point he's "starting quality", let alone to judge that he's finished improving?

I watched and re-watched every down last year and, largely because of your incessant sniping, I paid a lot of attention to Connolly. He's a finesse guard, not a mauler, and did a damn fine job as a pulling guard last year. He made numerous key blocks springing important running plays. He was sometimes overpowered, but most of his bad plays were occasional mistakes in pass protection, and with many of those it was unclear who on the line actually screwed up. Most of the errors were between he and Koppen, and we've certainly seen Koppen screw up long before Connolly showed up (he and Mankins looked like they were lost in the superbowl), It's quite possible that Connolly will continue to learn and improve. Hell, if he can shotgun snap, I'd like to see him compete with Koppen at center.

He's no all-pro and likely never will be. But he started for a very good offensive line last year, and played very well most of the time. He certainly can be improved upon, but it's very hard to believe there are 64 better guards in the league. You certainly haven't made the case for that.

His head coach pulled him in the middle of a game for a reason other than unmitigated greatness, and I watched him play sub-starter quality football all year long. And he for damned sure did not play "very well most of the time".

Feel free to hold a different opinion, and have a lovely weekend.

 

[jczxohn1]

Like to see Connolly start camp and play the same position for the entire season before passing judgement on whether he's a JAG or not. Jack of all trades,etc.etc...

 

[Kasmir]

His head coach pulled him in the middle of a game for a reason other than unmitigated greatness, and I watched him play sub-starter quality football all year long. And he for damned sure did not play "very well most of the time".

Feel free to hold a different opinion, and have a lovely weekend.

I never said Connolly was great, just that he was good enough to be a starter on a very good offensive line. But at least you're consistent; even before the season started you were dumping on the guy to make your point about how the front office was hurting the team by not acceding to Mankins demands. I can't see how anything actually happening on the field could change your mind.

 

[Deus Irae]

I never said Connolly was great, just that he was good enough to be a starter on a very good offensive line.

He was good enough to be the team's #4 OG. As things worked out, that mean he had to start, because the team's #1 OG didn't join the team until mid-season, the team's #3 OG was lost for the season early in training camp and the team's #2 OG was lost during the season. Connolly didn't start because he beat out all comers, so your comment about him being good enough to be a starter on a very good offensive line is highly misleading. He started because of multiple injuries affecting the position, and he was, by far, the weakest player on that line.

But at least you're consistent; even before the season started you were dumping on the guy to make your point about how the front office was hurting the team by not acceding to Mankins demands. I can't see how anything actually happening on the field could change your mind.

Had his play warranted it, I'd have changed my mind, as you put it. In particular, once Mankins returned and played well enough to shut most of the doubters and complainers up, I had no reason, even under your assertion that it was all about Mankins, to keep criticizing Connolly, other than his level of play. Had I felt he was playing well at that point, I could simply have said that he'd failed at LG, but played "very well most of the time" (again your words) at RG, had I felt that to be the case. You can feel free to go back into my posts, and you'll find that I did point out when I felt he was getting the job done. However, I don't think that he did play "very well most of the time", even at RG. He was not a starting quality OG last year, IMO. It's that simple, and it has nothing to do with Mankins.

Again, though, you're welcome to hold a different opinion. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

 

[part-timer]

I must expect that since the start of last year training camp Kaczur was slated as starting LG in Mankins expected absence, and Connoly was next man in line as a back up, that nothing has changed in the order till Connoly can beat Kaczur out. So at this moment IF Cannon is not ready to start game one and Soldier is the line up at this moment untill competion changes it will be Soldier LT, Mankins LG,Koppen C,Kaczur RG,Vollnier RT. If Soldier is not redy to start game one and Cannon is, the line up will be Vollmier LT, Mankins LG, Koppen C, Cannon RG, Kaczur RT. And lastly if both Soldier and Cannon are not ready to start game one it's Vollmeir LT, Mankins LG, Koppen C, Connoly RG, Kaczur RT. The ONE commen factor to every senario is the insurance policy of Kaczur, and in every senerio the Depth Chart from last years training camp has been followed, so the Connoly discussion as interesting as it has been is moot relying on the lack of Kaczur. To those of you who can argue Kaczur won't be around ,don't bet on it. First the 3.5 Mill.he is due to make is a cheap insurance policy for 1st back up to LT,LG,RG,RT. especialy since we can release him if not needed. Second, WHO are you going to sign to come in as a free agent that will pick up the Pats system and preform better in a temporary role. Thirdly No matter who you sign it will cost you MORE CASH when you add in a signing bonus to salary in the long run. Those of you who think they are going to get Light to sign for less, good luck, he is looking for his last cash in and will get paid well from many other teams. So as of now nothing has changed in the depth chart from training camp last year but Light is out and Mankins WILL be in Game one. You can assume and argue for 50 more pages but it will not change the fact that Kaczur is first man of the bench for OT and OG, after him at OG Connoly, and after Kaczur at OT Levoir. I would be willing to bet that by the trade deadline next fall both Soldier and Cannon will be starting and the line up will be Soldier,Mankins,Koppen,Cannon,Vollmier, and Kaczur will be up for trade after showing some versitaly at OT and OG.

Ps. By next years draft when Koppen is replaced the Pats will have one of the youngest if not the youngest, and lowest cap OL's in the league makeing Mankins deal much easyer to afford. Wonder if that was just chance!!! (BB genius)

 

[Kasmir]

He was good enough to be the team's #4 OG. As things worked out, that mean he had to start, because the team's #1 OG didn't join the team until mid-season, the team's #3 OG was lost for the season early in training camp and the team's #2 OG was lost during the season. Connolly didn't start because he beat out all comers, so your comment about him being good enough to be a starter on a very good offensive line is highly misleading. He started because of multiple injuries affecting the position, and he was, by far, the weakest player on that line.




Had his play warranted it, I'd have changed my mind, as you put it. In particular, once Mankins returned and played well enough to shut most of the doubters and complainers up, I had no reason, even under your assertion that it was all about Mankins, to keep criticizing Connolly, other than his level of play. Had I felt he was playing well at that point, I could simply have said that he'd failed at LG, but played "very well most of the time" (again your words) at RG, had I felt that to be the case. You can feel free to go back into my posts, and you'll find that I did point out when I felt he was getting the job done. However, I don't think that he did play "very well most of the time", even at RG. He was not a starting quality OG last year, IMO. It's that simple, and it has nothing to do with Mankins.

Again, though, you're welcome to hold a different opinion. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

Nonsense. Connolly clearly outplayed Kaczur at guard. Did you even watch Kaczur play guard? He's even more of a finesse player than Connolly and can't pull off the 2nd level blocks that Connoly is excellent at (he really is). In my scoring, Koppen had a lot more bad plays than Connolly. Both players were oprone to getting overpowered, and poorly communicated, but Koppen was less consistent.

I truly doubt you closely watch or understand line play.

 

[part-timer]

Nonsense. Connolly clearly outplayed Kaczur at guard. Did you even watch Kaczur play guard? He's even more of a finesse player than Connolly and can't pull off the 2nd level blocks that Connoly is excellent at (he really is). In my scoring, Koppen had a lot more bad plays than Connolly. Both players were oprone to getting overpowered, and poorly communicated, but Koppen was less consistent.

I truly doubt you closely watch or understand line play.

One question, Kaczur hurt his back in training camp and never played a game as guard even though comeing into camp slated as a starting guard to replace Mankins in his hold out, So, when did you watch Connolly out play Kaczur at guard.

Report: Kaczur has 'significant' back injury

 

[Ring 6]

I believe Nunchucks' point is that Solder has three years at LT total, as he came to college as a TE, but quickly grew to the point where that didn't make much sense. That said, he did basically win the LT position the first season he tried playing. . . .

Are you saying that what position he played in HS has something to do with how successful he will be in the NFL?

 

[Ring 6]

One question, Kaczur hurt his back in training camp and never played a game as guard even though comeing into camp slated as a starting guard to replace Mankins in his hold out, So, when did you watch Connolly out play Kaczur at guard.

Report: Kaczur has 'significant' back injury

What? Where was Kaczur 'slated as a starting guard'? He played there for 1 practice.

 

[Ring 6]

He was good enough to be the team's #4 OG.

AHA. We are back to this again. Kaczur practiced 1 day at G, and you use that to say he won the job.
I called you on this before, and you skulked away with your tail between your legs. What has the statute of limitations expired?
Oh, and you still haven't shown me where the cap hasn't affected teams for years, or where Miguel has stated that numerous times.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I must expect that since the start of last year training camp Kaczur was slated as starting LG in Mankins expected absence, and Connoly was next man in line as a back up, that nothing has changed in the order till Connoly can beat Kaczur out. So at this moment IF Cannon is not ready to start game one and Soldier is the line up at this moment untill competion changes it will be Soldier LT, Mankins LG,Koppen C,Kaczur RG,Vollnier RT. If Soldier is not redy to start game one and Cannon is, the line up will be Vollmier LT, Mankins LG, Koppen C, Cannon RG, Kaczur RT. And lastly if both Soldier and Cannon are not ready to start game one it's Vollmeir LT, Mankins LG, Koppen C, Connoly RG, Kaczur RT. The ONE commen factor to every senario is the insurance policy of Kaczur, and in every senerio the Depth Chart from last years training camp has been followed, so the Connoly discussion as interesting as it has been is moot relying on the lack of Kaczur. To those of you who can argue Kaczur won't be around ,don't bet on it. First the 3.5 Mill.he is due to make is a cheap insurance policy for 1st back up to LT,LG,RG,RT. especialy since we can release him if not needed. Second, WHO are you going to sign to come in as a free agent that will pick up the Pats system and preform better in a temporary role. Thirdly No matter who you sign it will cost you MORE CASH when you add in a signing bonus to salary in the long run. Those of you who think they are going to get Light to sign for less, good luck, he is looking for his last cash in and will get paid well from many other teams. So as of now nothing has changed in the depth chart from training camp last year but Light is out and Mankins WILL be in Game one. You can assume and argue for 50 more pages but it will not change the fact that Kaczur is first man of the bench for OT and OG, after him at OG Connoly, and after Kaczur at OT Levoir. I would be willing to bet that by the trade deadline next fall both Soldier and Cannon will be starting and the line up will be Soldier,Mankins,Koppen,Cannon,Vollmier, and Kaczur will be up for trade after showing some versitaly at OT and OG.

Ps. By next years draft when Koppen is replaced the Pats will have one of the youngest if not the youngest, and lowest cap OL's in the league makeing Mankins deal much easyer to afford. Wonder if that was just chance!!! (BB genius)

Is Volnier, Volmeir and Volmier all the same guy? We also have a guy named Vollmer on the team thats pretty good.

 

[part-timer]

Is Volnier, Volmeir and Volmier all the same guy? We also have a guy named Vollmer on the team thats pretty good.

I am flattered that in a post going into as much analasys as that did the only correction you have is the spelling of one players name. Thank you.