11-5 vs. 8-8

[upstater1]

Someone should note here that the last time this issue came up in the NFL, the discussion was not about getting rid of division champions, but rather, sending 7 teams from each conference to the playoffs.

 

[Deus Irae]

I realize and sympathize with your point.

But...

This is the NFL. No matter what division you're in, 11 games are much much harder to win than 8.

Unquestionably, a 11-5 team deserves it more than an 8-8 team no matter how weak their division is, not to mention the fact that the two 8-8 teams in question play in the NFL's two weakest divisions.

That's all we're saying.

Just taking the Patriots' schedule from last season and comparing it to this season, and playing that schedule with the exact same team, a team going 8-8 against last year's schedule would be more deserving than a team going 11-5 against this year's schedule.

 

[Disco Volante]

The playoff system is fine.

 

[upstater1]

Just taking the Patriots' schedule from last season and comparing it to this season, and playing that schedule with the exact same team, a team going 8-8 against last year's schedule would be more deserving than a team going 11-5 against this year's schedule.

Can't agree.

Winning 11 games is tougher than 8 games no matter who you play.

it's the NFL.

The only point I might consider is that the 2007 schedule was the most difficult schedule I've ever seen.

But again, let me emphasize this: the NFC West and AFC West are awful this year.

Awful. The two 8-8 teams are coming out of those divisions.

 

[Deus Irae]

Can't agree.

Winning 11 games is tougher than 8 games no matter who you play.

it's the NFL.

The only point I might consider is that the 2007 schedule was the most difficult schedule I've ever seen.

But again, let me emphasize this: the NFC West and AFC West are awful this year.

Awful. The two 8-8 teams are coming out of those divisions.

Go compare the two schedules. Your argument about "this is the NFL" is a misleading cliche, as anyone who has the Lions on their schedule would laughingly agree. Do you really think it's a coincidence that the AFC East, coming off a terrible year last season, is thriving this season with its non-divisional opponents coming from the two worst divisions in football?

 

[Kontradiction]

Guys, we can't change the current playoff format just because we're looking at getting snubbed. That's something the Colts and Polian would do. The playoff format as it is... is good. Division winners should take playoff precedent over non-division winners. If we really wanted to make the playoffs, we should have won one more game this year.

 

[upstater1]

Go compare the two schedules. Your argument about "this is the NFL" is a misleading cliche, as anyone who has the Lions on their schedule would laughingly agree. Do you really think it's a coincidence that the AFC East, coming off a terrible year last season, is thriving this season with its non-divisional opponents coming from the two worst divisions in football?

Uh, we played the Jets and Phins last year. Do you think other people didn't mention this 100 times?

 

[Deus Irae]

Uh, we played the Jets and Phins last year. Do you think other people didn't mention this 100 times?

Last season, outside of the division, the Patriots' opponents combined for a .600 winning percentage.

This season, to date, the Patriots' opponents outside the division have combined for a .420 winning percentage.

 

[upstater1]

Last season, outside of the division, the Patriots' opponents combined for a .600 winning percentage.

This season, to date, the Patriots' opponents outside the division have combined for a .420 winning percentage.

But the teams inside the division are no longer 1-15 and 4-12 (or whatever the hell the Jets were).

From 12-36 to 27-21. from .250 to .570.

 

[Deus Irae]

But the teams inside the division are no longer 1-15 and 4-12 (or whatever the hell the Jets were).

From 12-36 to 27-21. from .250 to .570.

Which was my point......

Go compare the two schedules. Your argument about "this is the NFL" is a misleading cliche, as anyone who has the Lions on their schedule would laughingly agree. Do you really think it's a coincidence that the AFC East, coming off a terrible year last season, is thriving this season with its non-divisional opponents coming from the two worst divisions in football?

 

[Miguel]

Just pointing out the obvious - The Patriots played 8 games against the AFC West/NFC West. The Chargers - 5.

 

[fumbrunner]

I have to agree with Deus on this one. you cannot look at a team's record without considering the strength of the schedule. Dont you think that the Steelers record is more impressive than say the dolphins or pats? Take a look at their schedule. Its ridiculous. By comparison, we had the opportunity to beat up on the NFC West and AFC West.

 

[spacecrime]

You have to win your division, period...

If you want to ensure you make the post season, you have to win your division, it may not seem fair, but it's an easy goal... beat your division rivals, and win your division.

I don't there needs to be any change.

Me, either.

Win the division, host a playoff game.

If you have a powerhouse in your division and cannot win it, you have TWO oppotunities to make the playoffs by being ONE OF THE TWO BEST TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE NOT INCLUDING DIVISION WINNERS.

If you can't do that, you have no complaints.

If Pats don't make the playoffs, it isn't because of the schedule, or the playoff format, or flex games, it is because they are NOT the best team in their division, or one of the two best teams not including division winners, and therefore do not deserve to go.

 

[spacecrime]

Think about what you wrote.

You think there was only one game this year in which a lesser team won the game? They deserve to get in based on one victory?

Please.

Think about what you are saying. A playoff team deserves to get in because they won their division, or are one of the two best teams in the conference not counting the division winners.

If they can't do one of those two things, they simply don't make the cut.

Please, indeed.

 

[spacecrime]

I don't know if it bugs me, but I have always wondered in all sports why the top teams with the best records don't make the playoffs. I think too much emphasis is put on winning the division. The top teams with the top records should play each other in the end.

Maybe in the NBA, but not the NFL.

Division rivalries is the backbone of the NFL.

Thing of the NFL when a Pats-Jets game is jsut another game, not super important. There are so many rivalries based on division, it would kill the NFL to get rid of divisions.

 

[upstater1]

Which was my point......

I don't get what you're saying.

I thought your point was that 8-8 with last year's Patriot schedule was more impressive than 11-5 with this year's schedule.

Total record of our opponent's last year was .468
Total record of our opponent's this year is .477

I fail to see how 8-8 against a .468 schedule is more impressive than a 11-5 against a .477 schedule (even though I agree with you that last season's schedule was tougher, because, well, the stats lie).

But now let's look at the 8-8 team in question: San Diego.

Their opponent's record so far this year is .457.

See, an 8-8 team against a .457 opponents' win % will enter the playoffs over a 11-5 team with a .477 opponents' win %.

 

[upstater1]

Think about what you are saying. A playoff team deserves to get in because they won their division, or are one of the two best teams in the conference not counting the division winners.

If they can't do one of those two things, they simply don't make the cut.

Please, indeed.

What was I saying? Are you confused again?

You agree with the Chargers fan that a single victory over another team means the Chargers deserve to get in?

 

[upstater1]

I have to agree with Deus on this one. you cannot look at a team's record without considering the strength of the schedule. Dont you think that the Steelers record is more impressive than say the dolphins or pats? Take a look at their schedule. Its ridiculous. By comparison, we had the opportunity to beat up on the NFC West and AFC West.

If you do look at strength of schedule, the Patriots had a tougher one than the Chargers.

 

[upstater1]

Just pointing out the obvious - The Patriots played 8 games against the AFC West/NFC West. The Chargers - 5.

If the Patriots indeed played 2 more games against the weak Wests than the Chargers did, shouldn't one also mention that the Patriots also played 3 more games against the strong AFC East than the Chargers did?

This is precisely the reason why the Patriots strength of schedule is .477 and the Chargers is .457.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I think the division setup for the playoffs is just fine.

But I seem to recall that there was discussion at one point, of not having a WC play the same division winner should the schedule fall that way, even if that is the match up that records would lead to. Was that ever adopted?

For example if the Division champ was the Pats at #3 seed and the WC were Jets #6 seed, Scheduling would match those two teams in the first WC round. Instead I would propose that the #4 seed play the #6 seed that year. Just so the same division opponents have an opportunity to play someone else in their first game.