Shawn Crable - Patriots Linebacker?

Seems odd that some posters weren't sure where he would project in NE's defense. I said I would take Goff over Crable, but we're talking ILB, where I don't think Crable's even close to being a good fit, and I think Goff could be a solid SILB. At OLB Shawn should develop into a good pass rusher, but will need to add at least 15lbs to his frame, which was among my main concerns (he has thin legs). I do like the pick, and in multiple list I projected him as one of their main options with the third round pick NE received from the Raiders.

sebman2112 said:

Seems odd that some posters weren't sure where he would project in NE's defense. I said I would take Goff over Crable, but we're talking ILB, where I don't think Crable's even close to being a good fit, and I think Goff could be a solid SILB. At OLB Shawn should develop into a good pass rusher, but will need to add at least 15lbs to his frame, which was among my main concerns (he has thin legs). I do like the pick, and in multiple list I projected him as one of their main options with the third round pick NE received from the Raiders.

Click to expand...

Like you, I thought the Pats may be interested in Avril before Crable due to the size issue. The fact that they were willing to take Crable with the early third tells me they believe he will fit into the system well and has room to add on weight. I'm excited about the pick.

BradyManny2344 said:

Like you, I thought the Pats may be interested in Avril before Crable due to the size issue. The fact that they were willing to take Crable with the early third tells me they believe he will fit into the system well and has room to add on weight. I'm excited about the pick.

Click to expand...

Not only size, but Avril's ability in coverage is miles and miles better than Crable. I'm still mildly shocked by the pick. I guess BB's confident he can coach up Crable to add different skills besides pass rushing.

I think you guys are all over-rating Avril. I'd rather have Crable for this defense. He's bigger and a better pass-rusher then Avril is. Yes, Avril is better in coverage, but Avril isn't no Mike Vrabel by anymeans. I like the ability and the potential that Crable has over Cliff. Crable from day 1 should be able to rush the passer from the outside position and step in for AD when he needs a breather. I personally feel that Crable is a much more domiant figure. When we look at Avril, we think of Phillips, Spencer, or even Colvin, if he wasn't on Purdue you'd all probably rather have Crable. You will be pleasanly surprised come preseason when you watch him play. He may very well have 3-5 sacks this year for this team which in my book would be great for him.

mike100915 said:

I think you guys are all over-rating Avril. I'd rather have Crable for this defense. He's bigger and a better pass-rusher then Avril is. Yes, Avril is better in coverage, but Avril isn't no Mike Vrabel by anymeans. I like the ability and the potential that Crable has over Cliff. Crable from day 1 should be able to rush the passer from the outside position and step in for AD when he needs a breather. I personally feel that Crable is a much more domiant figure. When we look at Avril, we think of Phillips, Spencer, or even Colvin, if he wasn't on Purdue you'd all probably rather have Crable. You will be pleasanly surprised come preseason when you watch him play. He may very well have 3-5 sacks this year for this team which in my book would be great for him.

Click to expand...

The main reason I had Avril over Crable was their legs, Crable's skinny legs didn't scream Pats OLB to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually weighing my own concerns and opinions over that of the Patriots scouting team.

I am excited about Crable, and I think he's one of those players that has even more value for the Patriots and a 3-4 system then he does other teams and other systems, and therefore, is a great value pick where we got him.

dryheat44 said:

Not only size, but Avril's ability in coverage is miles and miles better than Crable. I'm still mildly shocked by the pick. I guess BB's confident he can coach up Crable to add different skills besides pass rushing.

Click to expand...

Good point, and BB must be [confident he can coach Crable the position]. But whether we drafted Crable or Avril or (traded up and got Groves...), we probably wouldn't be asking any of them to play 3 downs anytime soon, even in the case of injury, and therefore, BB & the coaching staff - as you say - has the time to coach him up.

Avril to me just doesn't seem as aggressive or mean as Crable from what I've seen(which isn't a whole lot of either, just an observation)

mike100915 said:

I think you guys are all over-rating Avril. I'd rather have Crable for this defense. He's bigger and a better pass-rusher then Avril is. Yes, Avril is better in coverage, but Avril isn't no Mike Vrabel by anymeans. I like the ability and the potential that Crable has over Cliff. Crable from day 1 should be able to rush the passer from the outside position and step in for AD when he needs a breather. I personally feel that Crable is a much more domiant figure. When we look at Avril, we think of Phillips, Spencer, or even Colvin, if he wasn't on Purdue you'd all probably rather have Crable. You will be pleasanly surprised come preseason when you watch him play. He may very well have 3-5 sacks this year for this team which in my book would be great for him.

Click to expand...

Honestly, my interest in Avril had nothing to do with his Purdue pedigree. I was very high on him for alot of reasons. I'm not sure where they're going to play him with the lions, but I feel strongly he will have a very good career, unless the Detroit jinx swallows him up. Still, the fact BB so obviously preferred Crable provides an interesting clue into what he looks for in OLB draft prospects. Obviously, Crable must beat Avril by a wide margin in those categories.

Height, arm length, size potential, and killer instinct must outweigh quick twitch agility and on-field discipline.

dryheat44 said:

Not only size, but Avril's ability in coverage is miles and miles better than Crable. I'm still mildly shocked by the pick. I guess BB's confident he can coach up Crable to add different skills besides pass rushing.

Click to expand...

If you're talking about man2man coverage ability, remember that the elephant position doesn't do a whole lot of that. Rather, like Willie Mc, he will be asked to jam backs coming out of the backfield and to use his length to fill the short zone - this doesn't require a lot of agility or quickness, just smarts and experience, which of course Willie Mc had in spades, and which hopefully Crable will develop.

PaulThePat said:

Yep, excellent spot. Are you Mike Mayock

Click to expand...

LOL. Well Crable's size/athleticism combo is what jumped out at me. Looks like BB was thinking the same way this time. Don't worry about me getting a big head about getting one pick right though. I totally didn't think we'd take Mayo at #10. At #15-20 maybe, but not that early. Let me say one thing though, I'm relieved we took Mayo instead of Albert. I worry about fast rising OL that are project conversions to tackle but played G their whole careers.

mike100915 said:

I think you guys are all over-rating Avril. I'd rather have Crable for this defense.

Click to expand...

It's now easy to say someone was overrating Avril, since he didn't get selected as high as previously projected, and Crable was a Patriots draft pick. I think it might take a few years to figure out who really is the better player though, correct? Also, I don't really think anyone is saying they don't like Crable, or the Patriots decision.

mike100915 said:

Crable from day 1 should be able to rush the passer from the outside position and step in for AD when he needs a breather. I personally feel that Crable is a much more domiant figure.

Click to expand...

I'm not entirely in agreement with this line of thinking, and I believe you'll be somewhat disappointed if you're expecting he'll perform on a high level as a rookie. I think he has a lot of potential, and could develop into a solid starter over the next few years, but he's currently a little on the thin side (especially in the lower-body) for his height, and technically raw.

For Comparison we'll again use Vrabel. Mike's listed at 6'4" and 261lbs, while Crable measured in at 6'4.7", and weighed just 245lbs. So, while they're basically the same height, Crable weighs in at 16lbs less. This is among the reasons I believe he'll likely be fourth or fifth on the depth chart at OLB as a rookie. After he gets a season or two in the system, and puts on some weight, then he'll be ready to rotate with, and eventually take over for Vrabel.

If you're wondering, I believe the current depth chart at OLB might look something like this:
Vrabel
AD
Woods
Hobson
Crable
Redd

Note: I have Hobson listed as fourth on the depth chart, but I believe he's currently their third best OLB. My thinking here is that Victor could see more time at SILB, effectively moving Woods into the three spot. Crable would then either be fourth or fifth on the list, depending on Hobson's playing time at the position. Also, Crable could work his way up to third by the end of the season, depending on how things workout.

mike100915 said:

When we look at Avril, we think of Phillips, Spencer, or even Colvin, if he wasn't on Purdue you'd all probably rather have Crable. You will be pleasanly surprised come preseason when you watch him play. He may very well have 3-5 sacks this year for this team which in my book would be great for him.

Click to expand...

I do agree that some people might have rated Avril slightly higher because of his college, and their ability to produce 34 OLB's, but is that really a bad thing? Now, I personally think Spencer was a better pass rusher coming out of college, and if not for Avril's more developed pass coverage, I might have rated Crable higher.

As it is though, I'm happy with the pick, and think Shawn has a good amount of potential. Hopefully, within the next few years he'll be playing at a high level, and people will start talking about him as a steal in the third round.

Knowing BB, the little known fact that Crable was UM's best special teams demon for the 2 years before he became a starter and kept playing ST occasionally even as a starter was probably taken into account. Expect to see him get plenty of ST time next year and be a valuable contributor in that area at least for his first year. Obviously you don't spend a 3rd round pick on a pure ST'er but this is the guy that once threw even Matt Gutierrez on ST.

I'm pretty happy with this pick. As I've said before, I watched all of his games as a starter (coincided with my time at UM) and I provided a pretty good overview of what to expect of him in page 2 (I think of this thread). I still think the fact that he's played DE, SLB, and stand up DT, as well as different formations including 4-3, 4-2, 3-3, even a weird 2-4 nickel package, gave him the edge over Averill who mostly played std. 4-3. Given that we can afford to give him a few years to develop and put on some weight, I like it. Who knows maybe he'll be a situational pass rusher next year. His first step is extremely fast and he might be up for that role at least.

sebman2112 said:

If you're wondering, I believe the current depth chart at OLB might look something like this:
Vrabel
AD
Woods
Hobson
Crable
Redd

.

Click to expand...

i'm gonna go out on a limb and say by season's end crable will be the number 3, with hobson being used almost primarily on the inside

i'm liking our linebackers so much more right now than a couple weeks ago

we now have three guys on the inside (bru, mayo, and hobson), and three on the outside (vrabel, ad, woods/crable) that i feel can be relied on

in all the yrs that our defense was great we had this type of rotation with at least one of each (inside, outside) being a young/somewhat young capable player (in other words monty beisel doesnt count because he wasnt capable)

Even though the Pats ended up with good sack numbers, there were times when the overall rush was not consistently getting heat on the opposing QB, too many times; and that explains the Crable pick to me. Even if all Crable can do is come in on passing downs and get near the QB with regularity then he would have to be considered a very good pick. QB pressures while only getting spot playing time - hey sounds like one Jarvis Green and we know how valuable he is up front, if Crable has a similar impact with the OLB's then we will be quite happy I presume.

Brady'sButtBoy said:

Even though the Pats ended up with good sack numbers, there were times when the overall rush was not consistently getting heat on the opposing QB, too many times; and that explains the Crable pick to me. Even if all Crable can do is come in on passing downs and get near the QB with regularity then he would have to be considered a very good pick. QB pressures while only getting spot playing time - hey sounds like one Jarvis Green and we know how valuable he is up front, if Crable has a similar impact with the OLB's then we will be quite happy I presume.

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic, Crable is NOT the pass rushing force that Groves or maybe even Harvey would be in our defense. With Hobson, Vrabel and Thomas's ability to play inside or outside in a 3-4, the only way Crable plays in the base defense next season is if someone gets hurt.
Crable will earn his keep on special teams.

Ochmed Jones said:

Let's be realistic, Crable is NOT the pass rushing force that Groves or maybe even Harvey would be in our defense. With Hobson, Vrabel and Thomas's ability to play inside or outside in a 3-4, the only way Crable plays in the base defense next season is if someone gets hurt.
Crable will earn his keep on special teams.

Click to expand...

I thought Groves would've been a monster in our 3-4 and still am a little surprised we didn't trade up and get him. The fact that they didn't when they so easily could have tells me that they don't think he would be the fit some of us thought he'd be, and that Crable does have the potential to be a beast of a pass rusher and or better all around player.

BradyManny2344 said:

I thought Groves would've been a monster in our 3-4 and still am a little surprised we didn't trade up and get him. The fact that they didn't when they so easily could have tells me that they don't think he would be the fit some of us thought he'd be, and that Crable does have the potential to be a beast of a pass rusher and or better all around player.

Click to expand...

i think groves had the potential to be very productive in our 3-4 but i think one of the main reasons belichick stayed away from him is because of his inconsistency and lack of play recognition/awareness. it appears to be some of the same reason we stayed away from rivers imo. like groves he is very athletic but they both seem to lack the intelligence that BB craves.

BradyManny2344 said:

I thought Groves would've been a monster in our 3-4 and still am a little surprised we didn't trade up and get him. The fact that they didn't when they so easily could have tells me that they don't think he would be the fit some of us thought he'd be, and that Crable does have the potential to be a beast of a pass rusher and or better all around player.

Click to expand...

I liked Groves upside as well. I have to believe that the Pats had some kind of red flag on him, so that's why they didn't move up for him. Crable is a pretty good prospect too, but doesn't seem to have the pass rushing pedigree that Groves does. 26 career sacks for Groves with season high of 13. 16 career sacks for Crable with season high of 7.5. Crable is no slouch, but it seems that Groves had the edge in pass rushing abilities. Maybe BB believes that Crable offers more versatility and can be stout against the run too, that might have been a factor.

VJCPatriot said:

I liked Groves upside as well. I have to believe that the Pats had some kind of red flag on him

Click to expand...

There were a whole lot of vague references to something odd about Groves in the last days before the draft. I wonder if we'll ever know what that was about.

patchick said:

There were a whole lot of vague references to something odd about Groves in the last days before the draft. I wonder if we'll ever know what that was about.

Click to expand...

I think it's just because of the heart condition. Those references came from Adam Shefter, whose opinion I take seriously on player transactions, but whose opinion I take as a joke on player evaluations. Like I said in another thread, the closest Shefter has been to football is when he sneaks into the locker room after the game and sniffs the jockstraps.