Steven Jackson!

glm · Dec 22, 2015

Concussion Protocol said:
Aight, gotcha. They coulda won 2 playoff games with me at QB in 2003.

Honestly I think they would've won the SB in 2004 with Betty White behind the center.

glm · Dec 22, 2015

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Belichick won a playoff game with Vinny testeverde

And there you have it folks.

Nehalem · Dec 22, 2015

mosi said:
I think Brady makes the entire coaching team look better. I am in the minority when I say this but Belichick without Brady would not have a single super bowl ring. Heck, I wonder if he would even have a playoff win. Brady is the GOAT and 40 years from now, people won't even believe a player like him existed.

You are in the minority because you are flat out wrong. I think its pretty hard to say that Brady was playing at a GOAT level in 2001 when Brady was in his first year starting.

Also Belichick had one playoff win in 1994 with Cleveland.

Deus Irae · Dec 22, 2015

Nehalem said:
You are in the minority because you are flat out wrong. I think its pretty hard to say that Brady was playing at a GOAT level in 2001 when Brady was in his first year starting.

Also Belichick had one playoff win in 1994 with Cleveland.

The reality of 2001 is that Brady came in, and a coach who was 5-13 in New England without him saw his record change to 11-3 and a playoff win. So, you can argue that Brady wasn't playing at G.O.A.T. level, but you can't argue that Brady wasn't playing at "Win damn near every game" level, because that's exactly what he was doing.

Number of losses BB had in 18 games before Brady took over: 13

Number of losses Tom Brady has in a season:

2001 3
2002 7
2003 2
2004 2
2005 6
2006 4
2007 0
2008 DNP
2009 6
2010 2
2011 3
2012 4
2013 4
2014 4
2015 2 (season incomplete)

FreeTedWilliams · Dec 22, 2015

Jackson at practice wearing #39

BobDigital · Dec 22, 2015

Looking at 2001 Brady iit is clear he was not the player he was in even 2002 but even 2001 Brady was probably still a top QB 5 by the end of 2001.

People underestimate how hard it is to just not make mistakes in the NFL and get rattled. Brady was already very good at not making mistakes even as a very young QB and was able to avoid the temptation to try to get that big play which is harder than you'd think.

Looking at 2001 ask yourself how many QBs you would take over him.

I come up with very few.

Brady ended 2001 with the 6th best passer rating with guys like McNair, Favre, Garcia, Gannon and Warner being above him.

The only guys that year I would for sure take over Brady are Warner and Favre who while more mistake prone than Brady even then were just so much more likely to make plays.

oldrover · Dec 22, 2015

Sometimes the answers are as obvious as an ad for Reese's Peanut Butter Cups...

"You got Brady in my Belichick."

"No, YOU got Belichick in my Brady!!!"

"Hey... wait a minute..."

n6249c · Dec 22, 2015

mosi said:
I think Brady makes the entire coaching team look better. I am in the minority when I say this but Belichick without Brady would not have a single super bowl ring. Heck, I wonder if he would even have a playoff win. Brady is the GOAT and 40 years from now, people won't even believe a player like him existed.

Got to disagree.

First of all, you're flat out wrong about that ring, Belichick had a Super Bowl ring before Brady even signed an NFL contract.

Belichick is clearly the GOAT among coaches. He would have won at least another ring (to go with that first one) without Brady. Probably more.

Brady may be the GOAT now, but when he came into the league he was a seventh round pick, #199. Most coaches would not have let him sniff the field except in dire emergency, and would've benched him as soon as their high draft pick starter was ready to return. Belichick was the exception, and he and Brady have both reaped high rewards.

NormZauchin · Dec 22, 2015

mosi said:
I think Brady makes the entire coaching team look better. I am in the minority when I say this but Belichick without Brady would not have a single super bowl ring. Heck, I wonder if he would even have a playoff win. Brady is the GOAT and 40 years from now, people won't even believe a player like him existed.

Let's just overlook the 2008 season, when the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassel, not Brady. They were only the second team to miss the playoffs with eleven wins since the divisional realignment. I guess Cassel made the entire coaching staff look better.

n6249c · Dec 22, 2015

Th3Birdman said:
It's better than the alternative view that most people have, which is Brady is a product of Bill.

For all the accolades people are heaping onto Josh McDaniels for Brady's success in this thread, you'd think Bill has nothing to do with it.

My opinion is that this franchise's success hinged 60% on Brady and 40% on Bill (which includes the coaching staff).

Bill makes boneheaded mistakes too, lets not absolve him. But Bill himself says the players win the games. He can only place them in position to succeed but if you're not a great player, you won't.

I'd make it 60% Belichick 40% Brady.

Thing is, he can't make the plays for them, but he calls the plays and decides who gets the chance. Cutting Milloy. Trading Seymour. Intentional safety. "Bill, do you want the timeout?" "Malcolm, get in there!" Coaching Malcolm up to be ready to go in there, for that play.

fnordcircle · Dec 22, 2015

If you watched 2001 it's hard to say that Brady was the only QB who could have gotten a ring with that team. I think a lot of players could have.

He was a game manager then and that's ok cause our defense was too amazing. But he wasn't a game manager long after that.

I'm not sure Brady gets a ring somewhere else because there are too many factors that a QB can't control but I'm pretty sure Belichick gets a ring without him. Which hurts me to say because Brady is more of a hero to me than BB.

Joker · Dec 22, 2015

but you know, at this time of year, the Christmas spirit and good will in the air..I think it's only fair to once again remind everyone that

it's too bad that Dan won't get his ring

reflexblue · Dec 22, 2015

Joker said:
but you know, at this time of year, the Christmas spirit and good will in the air..I think it's only fair to once again remind everyone that

it's too bad that Dan won't get his ring

Its not all bad. The CHB has been immortalized as the Curley Haired Chia Pet.

RobertWeathers · Dec 22, 2015

fnordcircle said:
If you watched 2001 it's hard to say that Brady was the only QB who could have gotten a ring with that team. I think a lot of players could have.

He was a game manager then and that's ok cause our defense was too amazing. But he wasn't a game manager long after that.

I'm not sure Brady gets a ring somewhere else because there are too many factors that a QB can't control but I'm pretty sure Belichick gets a ring without him. Which hurts me to say because Brady is more of a hero to me than BB.

Game manager sometimes.....but not when it mattered.

Like many others I was at the "Snow Bowl" at that team was dead until Charlie & Bill smartened up and went shotgun 5-wide and let Tommy chuck it all over the field in a snow storm.

fnordcircle · Dec 22, 2015

robertweathers said:
Game manager sometimes.....but not when it mattered.

Like many others I was at the "Snow Bowl" at that team was dead until Charlie & Bill smartened up and went shotgun 5-wide and let Tommy chuck it all over the field in a snow storm.

Sure, and most QBs don't get us in FG position. But overall I think the rationale above that since the record w/ Brady in 2001 was better than the record in 2000 that it's all about Brady is too much of an oversimplification.

jimnance · Dec 22, 2015

What Brady did in the snow bowl- and the game- winning drive vs. the rams -was magical. Even at that early stage of his career- there were only a couple of other qbs at the time- maybe favre, warner--who could a pulled that off. As BB always says- players win games. Don't know what everyone's arguing about here- Brady and bb are BOTH the GOAT. Both would have won SBS and been great w/o the other- but probably not at quite the same lofty level. I just appreciate the hell out of BOTH.

Zuma · Dec 22, 2015

Semi off-topic warning

... Danny and Steven had a lot of yards this game (although the 3.5 ypc is not great). Steven had a couple receptions as well. Brandon Gibson had 3 ...

Watch St. Louis Rams vs. San Francisco 49ers [11/11/2012] - NFL.com

luuked · Dec 22, 2015

Th3Birdman said:
You see I'm not an absolute homer so I call out the faults of my team. What I said was an exaggeration, but it's not far from the truth. Our line has been really poor for a few years now. How they cannot seem to protect the greatest man ever to get under center is beyond me. It's infuriating to see Brady get hit the most in the NFL. It's like they don't have any fire, or they don't feel disrespected.

Anyway that's just how I see it.

And yeah I don't think Williams was given a fair shake. I was in the camp calling out Bill for putting Gray in the doghouse, so you see where I stand on these kinds of issues.

You do realize practice is not how the game actually goes right? It doesn't matter what they saw from him in practice, they should have played him in the gimmie game vs the Titans and seen what he was worth. It couldn't have hurt. We lost our starting RB-- I'd give Bo Jackson a damn tryout at this point, let alone a kid that *appeared* to be 95% of what Lewis gave us., not to mention our laughable injury preponderance this year.

All I'm saying is that I would have liked to give him the same chance we gave Lewis to wow us. When Ridley went down, we took chances at the RB position and it paid off > 2014 Blount, Gray and then Lewis.

This has nothing to do with being a homer or not.. this is about being reasonable..

Williams was here on/off for what ? Two weeks ? This is enough time for the coaching staff to get a basic idea of his strengths and weaknesses. I completely disagree with your sentiment that they didn't give him a chance just because he didn't play in a game. You don't prove yourself during a NFL game but in practice before those games and he had enough time to show them anything in order to be kept around. That was his chance.

Also Gray was a JAG and there was no reason to keep him around. He had one big game in his career where he benefitted from the Colts being too stupid to adjust for Cameron Fleming being an additional linesman. He never made it out of practice squads ever after. I don't see anything that Belichick did wrong.

NormZauchin · Dec 22, 2015

Joker said:
but you know, at this time of year, the Christmas spirit and good will in the air..I think it's only fair to once again remind everyone that

it's too bad that Dan won't get his ring

Too bad Dan won't get his ring, but worse that his coach, one Mr. D. Shula, did get a couple.

Reckedtrek · Dec 22, 2015

TommyBrady12 said:
Kitchen was released

Patriots sign RB Steven Jackson; Release DL Ishmaa'ily Kitchen

Things didn't fly with the kitchen.
39's putting on his grill.
Took a whole lotta tryin',
just to get up that hill.
Now we're up in the big leagues.
Got another running back.
As long as we live, it's you and me baby.
ain't nothin' wrong with that.
And the Pats are Movin' On Up!!!

Steven Jackson!

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