Chris Price: When it comes to the Patriots today, 2004 might actually be a better parallel than 07'

Really insightful read on the legacy of the Kansas City debacle. Chris also includes a bit on the similarities between today's team and 2004. Really worth reading!

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/f...09/29/one-year-later-lessons-learned-kansas-c

[......]

In 2004, the Patriots quickly righted that ship after losing to the Steelers, and would go on to post back-to-back Super Bowl wins. Could the 2014-15 team be remembered in similar fashion? There are plenty of similarities on both cases, including the presence of a healthy Brady, an unparalleled offensive difference-maker (the 2004 team had Corey Dillon, the 2015 bunch has Rob Gronkowski) and plenty of very good complementary pieces (Julian Edelman and Dion Lewis are evolving into Troy Brown and Kevin Faulk for a new generation) around the quarterback.

And on the other side of the ball, there’s an equally talented front seven that needs to provide some help for the secondary if New England is going to continue to win. (The 2004 team lost perennial All-Pro cornerback Ty Law in that October loss to Pittsburgh, but was able to win with a group that included Earthward Moreland, Hank Poteat and Randall “Blue” Gay taking significant snaps at corner over the course of the season and into the playoffs.)

In the end, the legacy of the 2015 Patriots is still to be determined, but it’s clear that the mental toughness that was forged one year ago Tuesday in Kansas City has played a significant role in their success last year, as well as the first three games of this season.

Ultimately, the 2003 and 2004 teams have certainly provided this squad with a template for success. Going undefeated would be a remarkable accomplishment, but if they can follow the blueprint laid out by those squads, it could provide a far happier ending for New England than what the team encountered in 2007.

I agree with this. 2004 team was the best Pats team of all time. The 2015 team has a better front 7 than the 2007 squad. Bruschi, vrabel and Willie MCG were all over-the hill at that point. Vince wasn't yet vince. Seymour was the main stud on that D, asante was a decent corner. Rodney was on his last legs. The 2004 team all those guys were in their primes. The 2015 Pats will be a top 10 d- I have no doubts about that. Not as good as 2004 d, but the current squads offense is better than 04. Barring major injury to a top key player, pats are SB- bound.

"Earthwind" Moreland. Not "Earthward"

Cantabrigian said:

"Earthwind" Moreland. Not "Earthward"

Click to expand...

Earth, Ward and Fire

I definitely agree.

jimnance said:

I agree with this. 2004 team was the best Pats team of all time. The 2015 team has a better front 7 than the 2007 squad. Bruschi, vrabel and Willie MCG were all over-the hill at that point. Vince wasn't yet vince. Seymour was the main stud on that D, asante was a decent corner. Rodney was on his last legs. The 2004 team all those guys were in their primes. The 2015 Pats will be a top 10 d- I have no doubts about that. Not as good as 2004 d, but the current squads offense is better than 04. Barring major injury to a top key player, pats are SB- bound.

Click to expand...

Vince was still raw

Can't agree with Bru, Willie, Vrable, and Rodney. They were still at their peak. It might have started to slow up quick after that but 03-04 was that groups peak. Not sure why you would say over the hill.

signbabybrady said:

Vince was still raw

Can't agree with Bru, Willie, Vrable, and Rodney. They were still at their peak. It might have started to slow up quick after that but 03-04 was that groups peak. Not sure why you would say over the hill.

Click to expand...

You misread my post: I said bru , Willie MCG and vrabes were in their primed in 04- but were over-the-hill in 07, which they were.

I agree that '04 is a better comparison so far than '07, but I also don't think that this defense will be nearly as good as '04--or '07, for that matter.

Those were some exceptional defenses.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Really insightful read on the legacy of the Kansas City debacle. Chris also includes a bit on the similarities between today's team and 2004. Really worth reading!

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/f...09/29/one-year-later-lessons-learned-kansas-c

[......]

In 2004, the Patriots quickly righted that ship after losing to the Steelers, and would go on to post back-to-back Super Bowl wins. Could the 2014-15 team be remembered in similar fashion? There are plenty of similarities on both cases, including the presence of a healthy Brady, an unparalleled offensive difference-maker (the 2004 team had Corey Dillon, the 2015 bunch has Rob Gronkowski) and plenty of very good complementary pieces (Julian Edelman and Dion Lewis are evolving into Troy Brown and Kevin Faulk for a new generation) around the quarterback.

And on the other side of the ball, there’s an equally talented front seven that needs to provide some help for the secondary if New England is going to continue to win. (The 2004 team lost perennial All-Pro cornerback Ty Law in that October loss to Pittsburgh, but was able to win with a group that included Earthward Moreland, Hank Poteat and Randall “Blue” Gay taking significant snaps at corner over the course of the season and into the playoffs.)

In the end, the legacy of the 2015 Patriots is still to be determined, but it’s clear that the mental toughness that was forged one year ago Tuesday in Kansas City has played a significant role in their success last year, as well as the first three games of this season.

Ultimately, the 2003 and 2004 teams have certainly provided this squad with a template for success. Going undefeated would be a remarkable accomplishment, but if they can follow the blueprint laid out by those squads, it could provide a far happier ending for New England than what the team encountered in 2007.

Click to expand...

Hmm, I am wondering if the 31-0 blowout in Buffalo is the more apt comparison? That preceded the "back to back Super Bowl wins". The loss in Pittsburgh was in between them and ended the 21-game win streak.

The Brandon Five said:

Hmm, I am wondering if the 31-0 blowout in Buffalo is the more apt comparison? That preceded the "back to back Super Bowl wins". The loss in Pittsburgh was in between them and ended the 21-game win streak.

Click to expand...

Yes, and at the time, both NE and PIT were playing exceptionally well. The game was away and on Halloween, IIRC. There's no doubt that the Steelers were quite pumped up.

That said, wasn't the 31-0 loss to BUF in 2003?

The only comparisons I see between this team and the 04 team has been the dominance (so far). This year's offense is much more explosive. I def wouldn't call Edelman a complimentary piece either. This year's offense seems to be relying on Gronk, JE11, and Lewis. 04 offense Dillon was the main cog, then you had guys like Branch, Givens, Patten, Brown, Fauria..

04 defense was elite. Kudos to Rodney Harrison for being the glue that kept that patchwork secondary together. He made a second year Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, and Earthwind Moreland look like respectable starters, while Eugene Wilson looked like a border line pro bowl FS next to him. Harrison the most under appreciated player of those teams, and he should be the next player to get a red jacket, but that's a different argument for another day ☺....

With that I'm not much for comparisons like that. Let's let this 2015 write its own story.

supafly said:

Yes, and at the time, both NE and PIT were playing exceptionally well. The game was away and on Halloween, IIRC. There's no doubt that the Steelers were quite pumped up.

That said, wasn't the 31-0 loss to BUF in 2003?

Click to expand...

Yes it was. We lost to the Redskins in 2003, and after that, our next loss came in the next year at Pittsburgh in Halloween. Same game where we lost Law for the season, and Light for an extended period of time.

supafly said:

Yes, and at the time, both NE and PIT were playing exceptionally well. The game was away and on Halloween, IIRC. There's no doubt that the Steelers were quite pumped up.

That said, wasn't the 31-0 loss to BUF in 2003?

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's my point. The Pittsburgh loss happened in between the back-to-back SB wins, not before it:

In 2004, the Patriots quickly righted that ship after losing to the Steelers, and would go on to post back-to-back Super Bowl wins.

Click to expand...

The Brandon Five said:

Yeah, that's my point. The Pittsburgh loss happened in between the back-to-back SB wins, not before it:

Click to expand...

I see what you're saying. As far as comparing it to KC, then yes--it should be Buffalo.

AzorianPats said:

Yes it was. We lost to the Redskins in 2003, and after that, our next loss came in the next year at Pittsburgh in Halloween. Same game where we lost Law for the season, and Light for an extended period of time.

Click to expand...

Jeez, I still remember where I watched both games. Seems like yesterday.

supafly said:

I agree that '04 is a better comparison so far than '07, but I also don't think that this defense will be nearly as good as '04--or '07, for that matter.

Those were some exceptional defenses.

Click to expand...

I agree. But I think Chris was suggesting that, much like the 04' team, the Patriots today are trying to adjust to the loss of an All-Pro cornerback (Revis would be our Ty Law) and restructure their secondary around a group of relatively, lower-caliber starters and rookies.

jimnance said:

I agree with this. 2004 team was the best Pats team of all time. The 2015 team has a better front 7 than the 2007 squad. Bruschi, vrabel and Willie MCG were all over-the hill at that point. Vince wasn't yet vince. Seymour was the main stud on that D, asante was a decent corner. Rodney was on his last legs. The 2004 team all those guys were in their primes. The 2015 Pats will be a top 10 d- I have no doubts about that. Not as good as 2004 d, but the current squads offense is better than 04. Barring major injury to a top key player, pats are SB- bound.

Click to expand...

Okay I agree 2004 is best Pats team. But in 2007 Willie was not on the Patriots. 2007 was probably Vrabel's best year. Asante was more than a decent corner in 2007. Also Vince was a stud in 2007.

Isn't this roster just a supercharged version of 2011?

Qb
Brady =Brady
Hoyer=jimmy G

TE
Gronk<gronk
Ahern>chandler


Rb
Law firm <Blount
Woody< Lewis
Ridley>bolden
Vereen<white

Oline
Light<solder
Mankins> mason
Koppen=stork
Waters>Jackson
Vollmer<vollmer

Wr
Welker=edelman
Branch=amendola
Ocho<lafell
Slater<Dobson

The two biggest differences are the skill improvement at running back and the depth at receiver. Really, depth everywhere is improved, but it shows up most notably at Wr. The biggest advantage for 2011 was the incredible Oline, with the best interior play I can remember, but so far that has been mitigated by very solid development and Brady's quick timing.

I also don't think it's a fluke that Brady hasn't been picked yet, as I imagine he will follow much of the same play book that lead to him having a 76-16 td/int ratio between 2010-2011. Having lafell and Dobson outside as opposed to ocho and Tate should mitigate any team clogging up between the hash marks like the jets did in 2010.

I didn't touch on it, but this years team wins at almost every position over both 2010 and 11 on defense. In that regard, it could very well follow closer to 2004