The Offense Was Lights Out

Maybe there will be team where we will have a successful power run game, or not. Obviously, that wasn't going to succeed against arguably the best front line in the NFL.

So, make them play nickel and make it a battle between Brady and their secondary. All that needed to happen was for Brady to deliver quickly and for the OL to perform. It was really awesome to watch. Brady was making sure that everyone knew the assignments on every play by personally delivering the information.
The OL may or not be able to run block, but they certainly can pass block, and for Brady that what we need. After all, Brady doesn't require many seconds at all.

The offense is awesome with a healthy Gronk, Edelman, Amendola and Dobson. Lewis is a seamless replacement for Vereen. The 4 TE offense is great.

And the offense made lots of mistakes. There were lots of drops, a couple of fumbles, a couple of throws that Brady missed on. But that didn't matter, they were capable of scoring lots and lots of points.

What's your take on the defense @mgteich ?

Agreed overall. Huge day, especially for Josh Kline, who I believe logged the most snaps rotating into both guard spots. The Pats brought in several guys to challenge for his roster spot in camp but he looked great today.

Conversely there were a couple plays were Shaq Mason let somebody charge through his gap unmolested. Still its good he's getting experience now.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

What's your take on the defense @mgteich ?

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I believe that front seven did an awesome job. They pressured the quarterback on almost every throw. Just look at the total of sacks, hurries and knockdowns compared to the number of pass attempts. Sure, the running backs made some long runs, but that was to be expected, given the talent of the players, and the priority was on rushing the passer.

What can I say about the secondary? Do we really give them a pass because the scrub QB made a couple of good throws? Personally, I don't think so. I think that we have a very average set of corners, and they didn't look particularly good, given how rushed the throws were. The safeties have been doing OK.

But this is what some of what we expected. The open question is how many points should we be expected to be scored by opposing offenses, especially ones led by scrub quarterbacks? Will the offense need to score 35-40 points EVERY WEEK?

unoriginal said:

Agreed overall. Huge day, especially for Josh Kline, who I believe logged the most snaps rotating into both guard spots. The Pats brought in several guys to challenge for his roster spot in camp but he looked great today.

Conversely there were a couple plays were Shaq Mason let somebody charge through his gap unmolested. Still its good he's getting experience now.

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I've been much higher on Josh Kline that about 95 percent of the posters here, so I hear you. Out of the 5 different personnel groupings in week one, Kline played in 4/5 of them, so I think he went a bit under the radar last week as well. As we know, he looked just fine in 2 postseason games last January.

Like you said, it's good to see two things: 1) the fact that we can rotate the rookies into seeing significant live gameday reps in their rookie year, and 2) the fact that we have a vet like Kline who, while certainly far from overwhelming, is definitely adequate enough to stabilize the OL with his experience.

One might say the O-line dispensed their own brand of industrial justice.

mgteich said:

I believe that front seven did an awesome job. They pressured the quarterback on almost every throw. Just look at the total of sacks, hurries and knockdowns compared to the number of pass attempts. Sure, the running backs made some long runs, but that was to be expected, given the talent of the players, and the priority was on rushing the passer.

What can I say about the secondary? Do we really give them a pass because the scrub QB made a couple of good throws? Personally, I don't think so. I think that we have a very average set of corners, and they didn't look particularly good, given how rushed the throws were. The safeties have been doing OK.

But this is what some of what we expected. The open question is how many points should we be expected to be scored by opposing offenses, especially ones led by scrub quarterbacks? Will the offense need to score 35-40 points EVERY WEEK?

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I think we're very close with our assessments of the secondary. I believe that they are good enough, but that they still have a lot of work to do.

While it's concerning to see some of the struggles in weeks one and two, we also must remember that they did just fine, arguably very well, through the first 3 quarters in both games, at least in terms of following the larger picture defensive game plan.

To answer your question, I do believe that at this current moment in time, we'll need to score in the mid-to-late 20s to have a realistic shot at winning the game. Perhaps that is just how the modern NFL operates and it's business at usual? After all, we'll likely average giving up something in the "20-21" range, as it pertains to defensive scoring.

supafly said:

...the fact that we have a vet like Kline who, while certainly far from overwhelming, is definitely adequate enough to stabilize the OL with his experience.

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The thing about Kline is he doesn't have all that much experience. He probably has less than a seasons worth of snaps logged to this point. I think he's still getting better. He was rough when called upon early last year, did not anchor well.

mgteich said:

I believe that front seven did an awesome job. They pressured the quarterback on almost every throw. Just look at the total of sacks, hurries and knockdowns compared to the number of pass attempts. Sure, the running backs made some long runs, but that was to be expected, given the talent of the players, and the priority was on rushing the passer.

What can I say about the secondary? Do we really give them a pass because the scrub QB made a couple of good throws? Personally, I don't think so. I think that we have a very average set of corners, and they didn't look particularly good, given how rushed the throws were. The safeties have been doing OK.

But this is what some of what we expected. The open question is how many points should we be expected to be scored by opposing offenses, especially ones led by scrub quarterbacks? Will the offense need to score 35-40 points EVERY WEEK?

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Right now I think the weak link is Fletcher. Other than that I think we have a good secondary which is complemented by a very good front seven. Find a viable replacement for Fletcher and the Pats will have a defense that can slow opposing offenses down.

Tom was getting rid of that ball ridiculously quick.

It's amazing how many of Tom's assets and skills get left out of conversations because they're not related to fantasy football.

The dude is the GOAT, period end of story. Anyone who disagrees is not a serious football fan.

I've seen Joe Montana play. I still see him now on NFL Classics, knowing a lot more about football than I did as a kid.

Joe Montana isn't even in the same hemisphere of greatness as Tom Brady.

Joe Montana is to Tom Brady was Terry Bradshaw was to Joe Montana.

He might share the hardware, but he's nowhere near the quarterback

unoriginal said:

The thing about Kline is he doesn't have all that much experience. He probably has less than a seasons worth of snaps logged to this point. I think he's still getting better. He was rough when called upon early last year, did not anchor well.

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Well, sure--let me clarify: his "experience" in terms of comparing him to the rookies.

I agree with you that he is continuing to grow, but I also remember him coming in at the end of the 2013 season when Nate Solder went down and Logan Mankins was forced to play LT, and Kline looked better than expected. One of those games was vs. MIA late in 2013, and the other was the 41-7 victory in week #16 down in Baltimore.

I thought that he looked better than expected late in the 2013 season, and that he took over at both LG and RG in the Baltimore and Indy games which occurred in the postseason of 2014. While he's still growing, there's definitely something that's shown in the past couple of seasons, at least in my opinion.

PATS16N0 said:

Tom was getting rid of that ball ridiculously quick.

It's amazing how many of Tom's assets and skills get left out of conversations because they're not related to fantasy football.

The dude is the GOAT, period end of story. Anyone who disagrees is not a serious football fan.

I've seen Joe Montana play. I still see him now on NFL Classics, knowing a lot more about football than I did as a kid.

Joe Montana isn't even in the same hemisphere of greatness as Tom Brady.

Joe Montana is to Tom Brady was Terry Bradshaw was to Joe Montana.

He might share the hardware, but he's nowhere near the quarterback

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I watched Montana as well. I think the difference between Terry Bradshaw and Joe is much greater than the difference between Joe and Tom.

Tom is the best but I will still entertain arguments between Tom and Joe.

mgteich said:

The open question is how many points should we be expected to be scored by opposing offenses, especially ones led by scrub quarterbacks? Will the offense need to score 35-40 points EVERY WEEK?

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supafly said:

To answer your question, I do believe that at this current moment in time, we'll need to score in the mid-to-late 20s to have a realistic shot at winning the game. Perhaps that is just how the modern NFL operates and it's business at usual? After all, we'll likely average giving up something in the "20-21" range, as it pertains to defensive scoring.

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The past few years, the median NFL scoring offense has ranged from 21 to 24 points per game. The Pats have been high 20's to 30.

The Pats will continue to win most games they score nearly 30 points or more in, and lose most of the ones where they score 24 points or less, just like other teams. No need to fret existentially about that.

Tony2046 said:

Right now I think the weak link is Fletcher. Other than that I think we have a good secondary which is complemented by a very good front seven. Find a viable replacement for Fletcher and the Pats will have a defense that can slow opposing offenses down.

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Yeah, Butler and Brown look like they have potential to hold down the fort, while Ryan and Fletcher are the shakier CBs.

That said, it looks as though Harmon is continuing to progress, and that Chung is playing his role fairly well, in terms of helping to mask his weakness in coverage.

supafly said:

To answer your question, I do believe that at this current moment in time, we'll need to score in the mid-to-late 20s to have a realistic shot at winning the game. Perhaps that is just how the modern NFL operates and it's business at usual? After all, we'll likely average giving up something in the "20-21" range, as it pertains to defensive scoring.

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I think that we should expect the offense to score 24 or more in every game. My problem is that against many teams that may not be nearly enough. After all, if Buffalo can put up 32, I suspect there are other teams capable of doing the same.

unoriginal said:

The past few years, the median NFL scoring offense has ranged from 21 to 24 points per game. The Pats have been high 20's to 30.

The Pats will continue to win most games they score nearly 30 points or more in, and lose most of the ones where they score 24 points or less, just like other teams. No need to fret existentially about that.

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I agree. We shouldn't fret if it is OK that we have an offense and defense "just like other teams". Most of us have no interest in the patriots have less than a top 10 defense and a top 5 offense. I think that this is what we need to be competitive for the Super Bowl.

unoriginal said:

The Pats will continue to win most games they score nearly 30 points or more in, and lose most of the ones where they score 24 points or less, just like other teams. No need to fret existentially about that.

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Yes, the fact that they have allowed 14 (week one) and 13 (week two) points into the fourth quarter of both games is certainly a positive. That would project to below the "20-21" point over the full course of the game. I don't think we've given up more than that on average lately, at least over the course of the entire season.

That "20-21" point is probably comparable to the 17-18 range which we saw from past defenses 10+ years ago, so it's likely the best we're going to get.

The concern would come from some of the 4th quarter scoring, which has occurred in borderline garbage time. In other words, nothing to stay awake worrying about, but something that you'd like to see worked on just the same.

supafly said:

Yeah, Butler and Brown look like they have potential to hold down the fort, while Ryan and Fletcher are the shakier CBs.

That said, it looks as though Harmon is continuing to progress, and that Chung is playing his role fairly well, in terms of helping to mask his weakness in coverage.

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As I said in another thread, Harmon could be our best nickel back.

mgteich said:

As I said in another thread, Harmon could be our best nickel back.

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Well... except we've never seen him bump and run. He plays one hell of a Center Field.

supafly said:

I think we're very close with our assessments of the secondary. I believe that they are good enough, but that they still have a lot of work to do.

While it's concerning to see some of the struggles in weeks one and two, we also must remember that they did just fine, arguably very well, through the first 3 quarters in both games, at least in terms of following the larger picture defensive game plan.

To answer your question, I do believe that at this current moment in time, we'll need to score in the mid-to-late 20s to have a realistic shot at winning the game. Perhaps that is just how the modern NFL operates and it's business at usual? After all, we'll likely average giving up something in the "20-21" range, as it pertains to defensive scoring.

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Is it me or does it seem seem like every week in a game that NE goes up 2+ scores in the 3rd BB just sits back (purposely) with the intent to 1) Not give up the big play. 2) Eat the clock on multiple receptions (as planned) 3) Embrace deception based prevent D rather than passive time wasting one in in hopes of forcing a TO, aided by applying #1 nad #2 law of numbers that the more plays you force them to make (as long as its not a big hitter) every play increases your chance of winning the game. 4) Factor in the offensive potential of scoring a few more points and wasting clock in case #1,2 and 3 falter.

In the end NE gets the W, but there is so much hang-wringing. Yes the score tightens up, but as clock keeps ticking away. Oh no, The D numbers get inflated with a few big risky plays that hit and runs of successful completions on soft contain coverage, but really all part of the plan. Time pressure mounts, forces a mistake, but the INT that seals the game never gets talked about. But wasn't that the plan really?