I confidently believe, without bias, that Edelman now is better than Welker ever was

Patriot Missile · Sep 11, 2015

Better player? Yep, because of his versatility. Jules has a larger route tree and does more things well.

However, to me Wes Welker is one of the biggest pioneers of the slot receiver in history. I wouldn't even call Edelman a slot receiver anymore.

Short crossing routes? Welker all day. Guy was a warrior over the middle and did it for a long while with shiftiness and precision. Father Time catches up with everybody.

But yeah, if I had a choice I would go with the guy that could line up outside and get that 20 or 30 yard pick up you need as well as go over the middle with the best of them in today's league.

Btw Julian is a pretty good QB too. Has Brady beat in career completion% and probably reminds him of that constantly in good fun.

Love both those receivers.

fumbrunner · Sep 11, 2015

Different players, different styles. Both are/were incredibly productive here. Why do they have to be compared against one another? Both are future Patriots HoFers.

nowayback · Sep 11, 2015

Julian is a beast ! I also think he has a super character .

Ross12 · Sep 11, 2015

Edelman is barely even a slot receiver at this point, he's a legitimate outside-the-numbers threat. They're not even in the same category at this point IMO. All the comparisons to Antonio Brown last night were more justified... The only thing I think Brown has on Edelman is that Brown is just slightly more athletic, and has blazing downfield speed, vs Edelman who just has really good speed. You see Brown make some more crazy catches like the one on Butler with his helmet in one arm and the ball in the other, but we also need to remember Brady would've never ever thrown that pass to begin with.

PatriotsReign · Sep 11, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
This isn't a knock against Wes Welker, who despite the messy breakup, is still one of my all-time favorite Patriots. In addition, I'm not even basing it on "clutch play" in big games, which I think to some degree is more about perception and small sample sizes.

I believe the Julian Edelman is a better wide receiver than Wes Welker ever was, based on his skills, period.

Here are the main reasons, in order of importance:

1. Catch radius. The most important reason why Edelman is better is his catch radius. Despite being on paper just 1" taller than Welker, Edelman plays bigger. He seems to have longer arms and can cover more ground in a shorter time. There are very, very few times where Brady throws a ball over Edelman's head or where a ball is just out of reach. It also makes Edelman a better red zone threat. On the other hand, as good as Welker was, the ball always needed to be placed within an inch of the target. Do you remember how many busted screen plays were the result of missing a connection with Welker?

2. Hands. Welker also had his share of drops on wide open passes. Because of his high number of targets, I always felt that people would too harsh on his drops, though in later seasons the problems got worse. Still, Welker often needed to use his body to catch balls. Edelman rarely drops passes and is able to snag balls out of the air using his hands only.

3. Strength. There is little doubt that Edelman is just plain stronger than Welker. Welker could be shut down (often in the playoffs) by getting jammed at the line and just pushed around. Edelman is just better at fighting jams and releasing off the line. In addition, with the ball, Edelman is not only shifty but is also tough to tackle as he has a great center of gravity and uses great strength to stay up. Welker was also extremely shifty but was forced to rely only on the quickness. Edelman uses both quickness and power to move forward, and he will drive himself into a player to pick up that extra few feet for a first down.

4. Straight Line Speed. Welker was rarely used as a vertical threat because while very shifty and quick, he was not that fast. Yes, he could accelerate very well, but his top gear did not often get him behind defenses. Brady is able to use Edelman as a deep threat more often because Edelman is faster.

All in all, I would say Welker in his prime was slightly shiftier and quicker than Edelman, but for the reasons above, Edelman is a better overall wide receiver. It is amazing to think that the Patriots almost let Edelman walk after 2012 and that the Amendola vs Welker debate was so controversial while Edelman was an afterthought.

I'll take Edelman. In my opinion, he passed Wes long ago in both skill and accomplishment. It's not and never will be about "number of receptions".

And Brady would agree 100%!!! If both Edelman & Welker were at their peaks at the same time, the Patriots would choose Edelman.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
This isn't a knock against Wes Welker, who despite the messy breakup, is still one of my all-time favorite Patriots. In addition, I'm not even basing it on "clutch play" in big games, which I think to some degree is more about perception and small sample sizes.

I believe the Julian Edelman is a better wide receiver than Wes Welker ever was, based on his skills, period.

Here are the main reasons, in order of importance:

1. Catch radius. The most important reason why Edelman is better is his catch radius. Despite being on paper just 1" taller than Welker, Edelman plays bigger. He seems to have longer arms and can cover more ground in a shorter time. There are very, very few times where Brady throws a ball over Edelman's head or where a ball is just out of reach. It also makes Edelman a better red zone threat. On the other hand, as good as Welker was, the ball always needed to be placed within an inch of the target. Do you remember how many busted screen plays were the result of missing a connection with Welker?

2. Hands. Welker also had his share of drops on wide open passes. Because of his high number of targets, I always felt that people would too harsh on his drops, though in later seasons the problems got worse. Still, Welker often needed to use his body to catch balls. Edelman rarely drops passes and is able to snag balls out of the air using his hands only.

3. Strength. There is little doubt that Edelman is just plain stronger than Welker. Welker could be shut down (often in the playoffs) by getting jammed at the line and just pushed around. Edelman is just better at fighting jams and releasing off the line. In addition, with the ball, Edelman is not only shifty but is also tough to tackle as he has a great center of gravity and uses great strength to stay up. Welker was also extremely shifty but was forced to rely only on the quickness. Edelman uses both quickness and power to move forward, and he will drive himself into a player to pick up that extra few feet for a first down.

4. Straight Line Speed. Welker was rarely used as a vertical threat because while very shifty and quick, he was not that fast. Yes, he could accelerate very well, but his top gear did not often get him behind defenses. Brady is able to use Edelman as a deep threat more often because Edelman is faster.

All in all, I would say Welker in his prime was slightly shiftier and quicker than Edelman, but for the reasons above, Edelman is a better overall wide receiver. It is amazing to think that the Patriots almost let Edelman walk after 2012 and that the Amendola vs Welker debate was so controversial while Edelman was an afterthought.

I think Edelman plays more like a smaller version of Hernandez. He can go all over the field, can beat the defender with speed, as well as strength, and he is dynamic with the ball in his hand.

I actually think that Edelman filled the Hernandez void in the offense, and Amendola is actually playing the Welker role. The only difference being that Brady and the coaching staff have made what Edelman does more prominent and the true slot WR less.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2015

Ross12 said:
Edelman is barely even a slot receiver at this point, he's a legitimate outside-the-numbers threat. They're not even in the same category at this point IMO. All the comparisons to Antonio Brown last night were more justified... The only thing I think Brown has on Edelman is that Brown is just slightly more athletic, and has blazing downfield speed, vs Edelman who just has really good speed. You see Brown make some more crazy catches like the one on Butler with his helmet in one arm and the ball in the other, but we also need to remember Brady would've never ever thrown that pass to begin with.

Edelman
Height: 5103
Weight: 195
40 Yrd Dash: 4.52
20 Yrd Dash: 2.58
10 Yrd Dash: 1.52
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 14
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.92
3-Cone Drill: 6.62

Brown
Height: 5101
Weight: 186
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash: 2.64
10 Yrd Dash: 1.58
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 13
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.18
3-Cone Drill: 6.98

As you can see Edelman is actually the superior athlete in every single metric that NFL players are measured by.

The difference is Edelman was a QB who has had to learn to be a WR since entering the NFL and Brown has always been a WR. Also the Steelers employee more a vertical offense.

saspack · Sep 11, 2015

JE once played corner for us. Can WW play? Btw, how much do we pay JE? God bless JE stay healthy.

RobertWeathers · Sep 11, 2015

fumbrunner said:
Different players, different styles. Both are/were incredibly productive here. Why do they have to be compared against one another? Both are future Patriots HoFers.

I'll tell you why and frankly, it's sad.

There are people on this board that are still bitter that he dropped key passes. They are still pissed that he signed with the Broncos. He made some comments about BB that were anti-Patriot. That is what blinds their logic.

Jules is the shiny new toy. Hes charismatic. Hes a champion. Hes dynamic. Hes productive. His incredibly likable. I get all that. Hes more athletic than WW, but hes also a different kind of receiver.

The comparison stops there.

If Wes makes those catches and retires a Patriot we are not having this discussion.

flasox27 · Sep 11, 2015

robertweathers said:
I'll tell you why and frankly, it's sad.

There are people on this board that are still bitter that he dropped key passes. They are still pissed that he signed with the Broncos. He made some comments about BB that were anti-Patriot. That is what blinds their logic.

Jules is the shiny new toy. Hes charismatic. Hes a champion. Hes dynamic. Hes productive. His incredibly likable. I get all that. Hes more athletic than WW, but hes also a different kind of receiver.

The comparison stops there.

If Wes makes those catches and retires a Patriot we are not having this discussion.

Of course if horses had wings they could fly too. Keep in mind that WW had his greatest years when he was the primary if not the only real receiver for the Pats after Moss left. Edekman has to share the catches with the Greatest tight end of all time. WW played small in big games. To be honest, in a big game, I would rather have Troy Brown than Welker.

resdubwhite · Sep 11, 2015

as much as I've grown to dislike welker. He was an incredible patriot. As is Jules.
I'm delighted both were here for a considerable time

RobertWeathers · Sep 11, 2015

flasox27 said:
Of course if horses had wings they could fly too. Keep in mind that WW had his greatest years when he was the primary if not the only real receiver for the Pats after Moss left. Edekman has to share the catches with the Greatest tight end of all time. WW played small in big games. To be honest, in a big game, I would rather have Troy Brown than Welker.

You might want to fact-check your statements.

WW had monster years with Moss. He had to share catches as well.

WW had the best year of his career with Gronk. He had to share catches as well.

Jules had a great year with Gronk.

Moss=Gronk

Troy Brown is a different discussion and from a playoff standpoint was not as productive as WW.

Jules - to this point is not as productive as Wes. That is a statistical fact.

Marinlik · Sep 11, 2015

Brady6 said:
Edelman
Height: 5103
Weight: 195
40 Yrd Dash: 4.52
20 Yrd Dash: 2.58
10 Yrd Dash: 1.52
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 14
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.92
3-Cone Drill: 6.62

Brown
Height: 5101
Weight: 186
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash: 2.64
10 Yrd Dash: 1.58
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 13
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.18
3-Cone Drill: 6.98

As you can see Edelman is actually the superior athlete in every single metric that NFL players are measured by.

The difference is Edelman was a QB who has had to learn to be a WR since entering the NFL and Brown has always been a WR. Also the Steelers employee more a vertical offense.

The difference is also that combine numbers is far from the only thing that's important to being a good or great football player. Sherman has not been a corner for that long, but he's still a better corner than many in the league. Not because of athletic numbers. But just because he plays the position better than most.

Fixit · Sep 11, 2015

robertweathers said:
You might want to fact-check your statements.

WW had monster years with Moss. He had to share catches as well.

WW had the best year of his career with Gronk. He had to share catches as well.

Jules had a great year with Gronk.

Moss=Gronk

Troy Brown is a different discussion and from a playoff standpoint was not as productive as WW.

Jules - to this point is not as productive as Wes. That is a statistical fact.

If you had a magic wand, would you replace Edelman with Welker for SB49?

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Sep 11, 2015

Edelman is clearly more versatile. Wes in a pure slot receiver role was groundbreaking, and his productivity in that role over any multiyear stretch by anyone is still unmatched

New England Pride · Sep 11, 2015

robertweathers said:
Edelman is more talented athletically. That is clear.

With the exception of 2010, Welker was an All-Pro level player here and his production was off the charts.

He absolutely deserves a red jacket. Let the big drops vs BAL and NYG go. Its in the past and we damn well know he tried his best.

Jules is not a better football player than when WW was here.

Keep in mind we are comparing a potential Pro-Bowl player to a perennial Pro-Bowler/All-Pro.

I respect you're forgiving attitude towards him but I cannot let them go. It has more to do with his non compliance of the Patriot way than his messy departure or the drops. Nice post though I respect that stance.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 11, 2015

robertweathers said:
You might want to fact-check your statements.

WW had monster years with Moss. He had to share catches as well.

WW had the best year of his career with Gronk. He had to share catches as well.

Jules had a great year with Gronk.

Moss=Gronk

Troy Brown is a different discussion and from a playoff standpoint was not as productive as WW.

Jules - to this point is not as productive as Wes. That is a statistical fact.

I think you've done a great job making a case for WW throughout this thread. For the record, I did not start this thread as an exercise in Welker bashing and stated that. Certainly there is a reason to compare the two, as they are more similar than they are different and Edelman's initial role in the offense was Welker's slot position, though now it is more varied.

I think WW is awesome and doubt JE will surpass his totals. However, for the reasons I stated, I think Edelman is an ever so slightly better player, which is notable because no one ever saw that coming.

Hoodie · Sep 11, 2015

Triumph said:
Better hands.

Andelman rarely drops a pass.

I'm sure this is just a typo but I'm getting quite a chuckle thinking about Eddie Andelman catching passes from Brady.

RobertWeathers · Sep 11, 2015

Fixit said:
If you had a magic wand, would you replace Edelman with Welker for SB49?

Thats a leading question. I'll play along because it's Friday

.

The answer is no because TB and Jules clicked that game and there is no need to change that.

Just like WW kicked ass in SB 42. I'm not sure I would want Jules in that situation.

Every game is different.

My argument is that...

Jules and WW are different players. Jules is better on the outside and WW is better in the slot.
Jules is a superior athlete
WW was/is more productive.

Bradyking12 · Sep 11, 2015

Put it like this, if Edelman played in Super Bowl 46 and Edelman was in welker's shoe's Edelman would of caught that ball and not dropped it.

I confidently believe, without bias, that Edelman now is better than Welker ever was

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