So regardless of the outcome with Berman, this needs to get bigger than just the Pats

BTTA · Aug 13, 2015

Reading these past few weeks for the first time (and shame on me for that) about the Saints situation. It sounds as if they were set up the same way as the Pats. It is stunningly similar, kind of creepy really. And even more complex in some ways, because of the number of people accused and convicted.

That's where this story needs to go next. If it is successfully generalized to being about the relationship between the NFL front office and all teams, all players, then it becomes more likely that public opinion (and that of the owners) can be swayed as well.

So I'm now a big Saints supporter. Free Brady! Free the Saints players and coaches! Free everyone's draft picks! Justice must be done!

hambone1818 · Aug 13, 2015

You can add Incognito and the O-Line coach (whose name escapes me) for the Dolphins to that list too. While people don't want to admit it because Incognito's a scumbag he got railroaded too, and the O-line coach just filed a defamation suit.

You're right, this is bigger than the Pats, bigger than the Pats and Saints. This is an NFL issue that took off when Goodell took over, he drastically expanded the power of the Commish office (and the NFLPA took money over control of these situations, so shame on them too); cameraplacementgate was the first glimpse into the kind of operation Goodell runs, and in that one you could at least say a rule (or at least a memo guideline) was clearly broken. In this case and in the others there was no clear violation of anything, just a story the league allowed to get out of control, then the railroading of anyone in the way. What an absolute joke, Goodell needs to be fired and shamed for what he's done to such an amazing sport and league.

BradyFTW! · Aug 13, 2015

betterthanthealternative said:
Reading these past few weeks for the first time (and shame on me for that) about the Saints situation. It sounds as if they were set up the same way as the Pats. It is stunningly similar, kind of creepy really. And even more complex in some ways, because of the number of people accused and convicted.

That's where this story needs to go next. If it is successfully generalized to being about the relationship between the NFL front office and all teams, all players, then it becomes more likely that public opinion (and that of the owners) can be swayed as well.

So I'm now a big Saints supporter. Free Brady! Free the Saints players and coaches! Free everyone's draft picks! Justice must be done!

Yeah, the Saints absolutely got hosed in Bountygate. What I didn't realize until the Rolling Stone article was that in the game where the NFL claimed they had ledgers showing that three guys were paid for delivering cart-off hits, only one opposing offensive player was carted off. Which makes the NFL's claim almost certainly a lie. Even when they 'clarified' that it was a different game, that was a game where the only guy who got carted off was on a noncontact injury.

Crazy. I hope the Saints and Patriots both get vindicated in all of this. Every day Goodell has a job, the NFL is a league so corrupt that it might as well just be fixing games.

pherein · Aug 13, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
Yeah, the Saints absolutely got hosed in Bountygate. What I didn't realize until the Rolling Stone article was that in the game where the NFL claimed they had ledgers showing that three guys were paid for delivering cart-off hits, only one opposing offensive player was carted off. Which makes the NFL's claim almost certainly a lie. Even when they 'clarified' that it was a different game, that was a game where the only guy who got carted off was on a noncontact injury.

Crazy. I hope the Saints and Patriots both get vindicated in all of this. Every day Goodell has a job, the NFL is a league so corrupt that it might as well just be fixing games.

Theres a lot of discrepencies from what the NFL said and what really happend. Wasted the team for couple seasons. Im always suprised at how smart NE fans are to look the little things up to get to the truth. Really smart fans. Goodell needs to be fired and the NFL need to apologize to the the Patriots,Fans and Brady. Not sure they can undo the damage to the Saints anymore, but I think most of us will be happy if the Pats are vidicated.

BradyFTW! · Aug 13, 2015

pherein said:
Theres a lot of discrepencies from what the NFL said and what really happend. Wasted the team for couple seasons. Im always suprised at how smart NE fans are to look the little things up to get to the truth. Really smart fans. Goodell needs to be fired and the NFL need to apologize to the the Patriots,Fans and Brady. Not sure they can undo the damage to the Saints anymore, but I think most of us will be happy if the Pats are vidicated.

I dunno about smarter, but I think Pats and Saints fans are jaded re: the Goodell regime in a way that the other 30 fanbases aren't yet. We've seen the screwjob up close and first-hand, and you guys have too. I think people are generally willing to take the league narrative at face value until they've seen their own team be unjustly screwed by it.

ctpatsfan77 · Aug 13, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
Yeah, the Saints absolutely got hosed in Bountygate. What I didn't realize until the Rolling Stone article was that in the game where the NFL claimed they had ledgers showing that three guys were paid for delivering cart-off hits, only one opposing offensive player was carted off. Which makes the NFL's claim almost certainly a lie. Even when they 'clarified' that it was a different game, that was a game where the only guy who got carted off was on a noncontact injury.

And that guy, IIRC, was a linebacker for the opposing team!

letekro · Aug 13, 2015

Kind of like most of us didnt care when the saints got screwed over, no one is going to cry about how the Patriots and Brady were treated here. The owners are in deep with Goodell and he is definitely going to survive this. If Turning a blind eye to domestic violence didnt sink him, deflategate certainly wont't.

Dr Pain · Aug 13, 2015

I think the narrative to start pushing harder is that the NFL guy stole the Ravens prepped K Ball and substituted a boxed ball. The Raven blame the Patriots and tell the colts in the text released. Then at the Colts game the NFL guy does the exact same thing. This whole thing is a whitewash to get out of multiple cases of NFL personnel tampering with balls during playoff games.

BTTA · Aug 14, 2015

pherein said:
Theres a lot of discrepencies from what the NFL said and what really happend. Wasted the team for couple seasons.

Pherein,
Given what NOLA had been through with Katrina and the absurdity of government response (and continued absurdity in the recovery), it would be reasonable for the NFL to be mindful of the needs of the city and region, and the impact that football has on the mood there. Not too much to ask. But instead, Mr. Oblivious used this as an opportunity to send a message. Amazing, really.

I wonder how you view this description?
http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-bountygate

pherein · Aug 15, 2015

betterthanthealternative said:
Pherein,
Given what NOLA had been through with Katrina and the absurdity of government response (and continued absurdity in the recovery), it would be reasonable for the NFL to be mindful of the needs of the city and region, and the impact that football has on the mood there. Not too much to ask. But instead, Mr. Oblivious used this as an opportunity to send a message. Amazing, really.

I wonder how you view this description?
http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-bountygate

I know everyone sick of Katrina, we are to, but we have to live with it. Submerge Boston in 40 feet of water an see how long it takes them to come back with little help, its 25-75 years sorry. Then cover their shores in oil, its not easy and we are doing the best we can without complaining to much. Then send in a real jerk to destroy the one thing that keeps use together because we are always losers and cant win anything.. really hurts
hope your doing well betterthanthealternative, nice to hear from you. You always have pretty cool post

TBR · Aug 15, 2015

betterthanthealternative said:
http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-bountygate

Jeez. It's stuff like that + the way too obvious Patriot bias that makes that website tough to take seriously, especially when showing to opposing fans.

TommyD4207 · Aug 15, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
I dunno about smarter, but I think Pats and Saints fans are jaded re: the Goodell regime in a way that the other 30 fanbases aren't yet. We've seen the screwjob up close and first-hand, and you guys have too. I think people are generally willing to take the league narrative at face value until they've seen their own team be unjustly screwed by it.

It took us twice to REALLY get pissed off about it, though.

raduray · Aug 15, 2015

Kraft on Goodell regarding Bountygate: “I think he has the full support of the membership with what his decision was, and he’s in the best position to speak to that,” Kraft said Monday. “I don’t have all the facts.”

So now, he's going to go crying to the other owners about how the Pats got screwed?

hambone1818 · Aug 15, 2015

raduray said:
Kraft on Goodell regarding Bountygate: “I think he has the full support of the membership with what his decision was, and he’s in the best position to speak to that,” Kraft said Monday. “I don’t have all the facts.”

So now, he's going to go crying to the other owners about how the Pats got screwed?

I think Kraft finally had his come-to-jesus moment when Goodell issued his appeal ruling. You can say 'too little too late', and that's fine. But I'd hope that in any closed-door conversations he'd be totally honest with other owners that he backed the wrong horse and played politics rather than looked at facts the past decade. He was wrong to back him originally, wrong to support him during Rice and Bountygate, wrong to give in during Deflategate.

Goodell won't be ousted any time soon, but hopefully Kraft is no longer in his corner, and the reasonable owners are starting to realize that the NFL is a cash cow with or without him, but with him the league's turned into a litigious, scandal-driven nightmare.

hambone1818 · Aug 15, 2015

And on that note: I feel like people bring up the incredible monetary success of the NFL the past decade as the driving force behind the owners supporting Goodell still. And while he may be great on that front, negotiating tv contracts and the CBA, looking to Europe for games, etc, he's been a DISASTER on the PR/image/operations side of things. From the concussion lawsuit to the various scandals that pop up and turn into THE BIGGEST SCANDAL EVER he's done more harm than good, imo. Don't they think that, for $40 million a year, they can find someone who's qualified for both the marketing/contract negotiation side AND the operations side? It's preposterous that anyone is still backing the man after all the damage he's done to various owners and players across the league.

JoeSixPat · Aug 15, 2015

I'm sure everyone's seen Michael McCann's latest on the Friday "incendiary" filing by the NFLPA

I think a great many people at Patsfans have done a good job trying to get the media to focus on the relevant issues

The media loves blood - literally and figuratively - "if it bleeds, it leads"

For a long time it was Tom Brady that was "bleeding" in the eyes of the media and public, because Goodell was controlling the story (with misinformation, blatant lies, and taking things out of context)

The media might find that this Watergate type conspiracy and cover-up is an even meatier story once we reach critical mass in the public eye

Judge Berman's decision will of course be the focus - but critical mass might have already been met in terms of showing Goodell to be corrupt - and with him the owners that back him

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/14/tom-brady-filing-roger-goodell-deflategate-federal-case-analysis

In a seething memorandum filed to U.S. District Judge Richard Berman Friday night, attorneys for Brady ridiculed Goodell as incompetent and dishonest.

Among the many accusations leveled at Goodell in its filing, Brady’s legal team mocks Goodell’s July 28, 2015 memorandum upholding Brady’s four-game suspension as “a propaganda piece written for public consumption, at a time when the NFL believed the transcript would be sealed from public view, to validate a multi-million-dollar ‘independent’ investigation.” This is extraordinary language for any legal filing, let alone one about the commissioner of the NFL.

A good read - including the tidbit that McNally and Jastremski are not eligible to be called as witnesses (they would have been if Goodell were interested in having them swear under oath that they did nothing but clearly Goodell didn't want to risk that PR nightmare)

RayClay · Aug 15, 2015

I don't think Kraft or anyone else is going to be honest to other owners about goodell. They are going to whisper to each other about how he is hurting the game and will cost their teams money.

Kraft will line up one owner and say "I think you are the only one who realizes this, then corner another owner and say the same thing.

I don't know what kind of office, or organization you people work at, but when there's this much money involved, there's going to be a lot of cajoling, scare stories and smiling in goodell's face until you can stab him in the back.

When you think of 32 owners, it's not surprising that a handful have come out in support of Goodell [he does represent the league, after all] but that so many owners have been silent. These guys didn't become wealthy enough to own NFL teams by shooting their mouths off prematurely about a mutiny. They'll wait until there are enough heads counted that they feel safe. Goodell's "support" generally consists of the type of weasels who would turn on their best friend if they felt threatened, so no sense in worrying about them until the tide has turned.

Kraft got played and was forced to show his hand. Nevertheless, he has a strong position if goodell looks vulnerable, considering he has done every successful thing goodell has gotten credit for and the owners know it.

RayClay · Aug 15, 2015

hambone1818 said:
And on that note: I feel like people bring up the incredible monetary success of the NFL the past decade as the driving force behind the owners supporting Goodell still. And while he may be great on that front, negotiating tv contracts and the CBA,

lol. I think the guy responsible for those is a little closer to home.

Do you think the guy responsible for the repeated discipline fiascos and the current PR disaster could really negotiate anything?

JoeSixPat · Aug 15, 2015

RayClay said:
I don't think Kraft or anyone else is going to be honest to other owners about goodell. They are going to whisper to each other about how he is hurting the game and will cost their teams money.

Kraft will line up one owner and say "I think you are the only one who realizes this, then corner another owner and say the same thing.

I don't know what kind of office, or organization you people work at, but when there's this much money involved, there's going to be a lot of cajoling, scare stories and smiling in goodell's face until you can stab him in the back.

When you think of 32 owners, it's not surprising that a handful have come out in support of Goodell [he does represent the league, after all] but that so many owners have been silent. These guys didn't become wealthy enough to own NFL teams by shooting their mouths off prematurely about a mutiny. They'll wait until there are enough heads counted that they feel safe. Goodell's "support" generally consists of the type of weasels who would turn on their best friend if they felt threatened, so no sense in worrying about them until the tide has turned.

Kraft got played and was forced to show his hand. Nevertheless, he has a strong position if goodell looks vulnerable, considering he has done every successful thing goodell has gotten credit for and the owners know it.

I still think that as the heat turns up on Goodell - if that's re-directed at the owners, they'll realize that Goodell no longer serves his purpose as an attack dog and buffer

I don't buy into the "Goodell made us a lot of money" - Football is more popular than ever before, largely in spite of Roger - not because of him. And he's clearly shown himself to personally be incompetent on several levels. Just think of how much a COMPETENT Commissioner might have been able to do?

It wouldn't shock me to see the owners make him a sacrificial lamb and perhaps even get someone competent in the job.

Froob · Aug 15, 2015

pherein said:
I know everyone sick of Katrina, we are to, but we have to live with it. Submerge Boston in 40 feet of water an see how log it takes them to come back with little help, its 25-75 years sorry. Then cover their shores in oil, its not easy and we are doing the best we can without complaining to much. Then send in a real jerk to destroy the one thing that keeps use together because we are always losers and cant win anything.. really hurts
hope your doing well betterthanthealternative, nice to hear from you. You always have pretty cool post

No matter what happens there, NOLA still parties better than anyone

. Roger dodger can never take Bourbon street. Well pretty sure anyways...perhaps ever clear is against the integrity of the game. Actually he probably can scratch that.

So regardless of the outcome with Berman, this needs to get bigger than just the Pats

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