Tim Wright released

supafly · Jun 11, 2015

Wright contributed on some level last season, particularly in the red zone. When you take into account that he was pretty much a "bonus" (at least in my opinion, considering the main purpose was to dump the cost of LM + the addition of the draft pick), it didn't work out too badly.

This said, Deus' numbers point out the fact that Wright was a bit overrated at times, along with the fact that he was constantly going to be on the bubble moving forward.

There's a reason why Tampa Bay was trying him at WR, and that's due to his poor blocking. The addition of Chandler, Davis, and Derby made him expendable. I wouldn't be surprised to see Davis next, as I don't expect him to make the 53 man roster.

Wheelman · Jun 11, 2015

Is Derby even practicing? I heard he was likely to start out on PUP.

Marinlik · Jun 11, 2015

Nunchucks said:
The first part of your statement is pretty worthless, as comparing the perennial loser Bucs to the Patriots is silly. The second part....they still could have let Mankins go this year or trade him this year....so, the space cleared was wasted. Let us not forget that the Patriots and Brady really could have used Mankins last year. They won the superbowl and the guys came together, but it had some rough patches for sure.
Mankins tends to play injured a lot, it is his nature...you know, play a whole season on a torn ACL and then get killed by fans like you because he let Brady get hit a few times....meh.

The space cleared wasn't wasted. We gained cap space last year too. Which we then used for trades and mid season signings. That is cap space that we wouldn't have had if we let him go this year.

Brady6 · Jun 11, 2015

shmessy said:
Help me here.

The season after the trade:

NE: 32nd pick of the 1st round
TB: 1st pick of the 1st round

How did that trade make the Patriots worse and Tampa Bay better??????

What exactly does that have to do with the trade? When is the last time a LG led a team to a SB title? You are blind to the fact that Brady is the best player ever to wear an NFL jersey. That covers up mistakes but it doesn't mean they weren't made l.

Ivan · Jun 11, 2015

Mack Herron said:
The straw man was Ivan who said:

Winning the Super Bowl does not make the Mankins trade good any more than if Butler had not performed his miracle and they had lost would have made the trade bad.

I was actually one of the biggest Mankins fans on this board and I was bummed when they made the trade, but the more I looked at it the more sense it made. They would have ended up cutting him this off season because of his contact and ended up getting serious cap space which they used wisely, a player who contributed for them when Gronk was still getting back into form, and a decent pick. In the end they won the Lombardi so every move they made was a factor and IMO the trade worked out for them. I still want him in the Patriots HOF someday and feel like he is a consideration for Canton.

Brady6 · Jun 11, 2015

Marinlik said:
The space cleared wasn't wasted. We gained cap space last year too. Which we then used for trades and mid season signings. That is cap space that we wouldn't have had if we let him go this year.

The Bucs did not give us the cap space in return for Mankins we could have freed that space up by cutting him or making a trade with another team. All that should be considered when assessing the trade is what we received in return. Tim Wright and pick #101.

Marinlik · Jun 11, 2015

Brady6 said:
The Bucs did not give us the cap space in return for Mankins we could have freed that space up by cutting him or making a trade with another team. All that should be considered when assessing the trade is what we received in return. Tim Wright and pick #101.

Sure. We could have gain that cap space by releasing him. But the poster I answered to said that we gained 0 extra cap space by trading him when we did, over releasing him now this off season. And that is, as I said, incorrect. We gained cap space last season by trading him them. Cap space we wouldn't have had with Mankins on the roster for the season. Sure, we could have gained the same by releasing him. But I will definitely say that Wright + a 4th round draft pick was better than just releasing him. And if we got any better offers for Mankins then I'm sure we would have taken that.

So what should be considered is Tim Wright, pick #101 and the saved cap space by not having Mankins on the roster for the season, as that was what I answed to first.

Zeus · Jun 11, 2015

What mistake?

BB believed (correctly as it turns out) that his team could compete without Mankins, an older player with a large contract who was at greater risk of injury and/or deterioration in performance.

This shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody (Milloy, Bledsoe, Seymour, Welker etc.) BB has been nothing but consistent in his approach. When projected performance (factoring in risk of injury) falls below contract value, you get a plane ticket to Tampa or Buffalo or some other godforsaken place.

It's not a mistake - it's part of the modus operandi ...

They don't win in spite of this, they win because of it.

supafly · Jun 11, 2015

Wheelman said:
Is Derby even practicing? I heard he was likely to start out on PUP.

I haven't been following him too closely, so you may be right. Either way, I think the additions of experienced TEs Chandler and Davis helped to make Tim Wright more expendable, even if Derby attempts to have a red shirt year or doesn't make the squad.

Personally, I'm expecting one or even possibly both (depending on injury situation) of Davis/Derby to simply act as camp fodder. At the end of the day, it's possible to keep Derby on in a developmental role or even practice squader. I still expect Gronk, Chandler, and Hooman to be the 3 main guys. The big question will be if we keep four or not.

Hercules Rockefeller · Jun 11, 2015

Deus Irae said:
I'm not sure what you'd accept as 'evidence', so it's really a non-issue. You offered nothing to support your position, but complain that I offered nothing to support mine. You state that you put little stock in pro bowl totals, yet you gripe about not being presented evidence. In the past 4 seasons, Vollmer had played in 8 games or fewer twice, and has not played a full 16 game season, giving Mankins a 52-37 edge in games played, and Vollmer was clearly limited by injury in a lot of the games he did play, which one would think would be taken into account without it needing to be said, since it was so obvious, but apparently that is not the case.

You created two strawmen and argued against them, rather than what I'd posted. If you don't like being "attacked" for doing that, then don't do that. That would avoid you getting "attacked" for what you actually posted, and also avoid you needlessly taking personal shots at me.

I did not feel attacked personally, probably the wrong choice of words. I meant that you chose to go after the way I was making my point, rather than my point. In the above post, you argued points rather than just said "no" or "anyone can see that", the last of which was patently untrue, for I am myself someone.

As to the strawmen, staying on topic, not changing the subject and not implying anything extra is simply not making a strawman argument, no matter how many times you assert that it is. It's not.

Oswlek · Jun 11, 2015

Marinlik said:
We gained cap space last season by trading him them.

An addendum, the Patriots saved cap space in 2014, 2015 and 2016 by moving on from Mankins last year compared to doing so this off season. That doesn't factor in any amounts rolled forward, it is simply viewing the cap hits per year under each scenario.

Zeus said:
They don't win in spite of this, they win because of it.

Well said.

Oswlek · Jun 11, 2015

Brady6 said:
The Bucs did not give us the cap space in return for Mankins

This is a non-sequitur. The fact that the Bucs weren't the ones who doled out the cap space doesn't change the fact that cap space was a benefit of trading Mankins and must be accounted for when assessing the merits of the decision.

shmessy · Jun 11, 2015

Brady6 said:
What exactly does that have to do with the trade? When is the last time a LG led a team to a SB title? You are blind to the fact that Brady is the best player ever to wear an NFL jersey. That covers up mistakes but it doesn't mean they weren't made l.

Aaaahhhhh!

But it was such a "disaster" at the time that the Patriots should trade away such a critical part of their team as the LG?????

Perhaps you need to be reminded that someone playing such a lower consequential position had the 2nd highest salary cap number on the roster at the time.

Sorry, but the storyline from so many at the time was that this aging LG was so important to the team. History clearly proved them wrong and the Patriots won a Super Bowl in the year they traded away their important 10 year LG with whom they never won one.

Oswlek · Jun 11, 2015

shmessy said:
But it was such a "disaster" that the Patriots should trade away such a critical part of their team as the LG?????

Yeah, that makes no sense whatsoever. LGs have minimal impact on whether you win the SB, but trading one away was a mistake the team was lucky to overcome?

Pick one or the other, you can't have both.

shmessy · Jun 11, 2015

Oswlek said:
Yeah, that makes no sense whatsoever. LGs have minimal impact on whether you win the SB, but trading one away was a mistake the team was lucky to overcome?

Pick one or the other, you can't have both.

I love it when folks try to sucker people in to the "Heads I win, tails you lose" argument.

.

Danger Zone · Jun 11, 2015

shmessy said:
I love it when folks try to sucker people in to the "Heads I win, tails you lose" argument.

http://www.cracked.com/article_1946...-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html

patsfan13 · Jun 11, 2015

When Stork was inserted at center allowing Connely to go to LG and Wendell to RG the OL was better than when Mankins, Wendell and Connely were inside.

Mankins was a poor pass blocker in 2013. Addition by subtraction. Wright was a help for a time but we improved the position with Chandler and have a rookie guard who could be part of the line going forward when Mankins is retired.

JarOfMayo51 · Jun 11, 2015

patsinthesnow said:
Could be good news about Fred Davis. If he returns to his pre-suspension form, steal.

Fred Davis was a crazy good TE a few years ago, so definitely not a bad option as your #3 TE on the roster thats for sure..

With this depth, we could actually sustain a season ending injury to Gronkowski and still be competitive. Obviously the offense would take a huge hit, but in the past after Hernandez was gone there was nobody that could even fill 15% of Gronk's production... but now we have some legit guys as depth who use to be starters on other teams

JarOfMayo51 · Jun 11, 2015

Koma said:
Does this mean Tampa "won" the Mankins trade?

Nah, the Patriots still made out just fine.. They jettisoned one of the biggest contracts on the team and were still able to win a Super Bowl.. Mankins was going to be gone this year guaranteed, so they did it a year early and got a 4th rounder out of it plus 250 yards and 6 TDs of production from a young guy

Not an amazing trade or anything, but both teams benefited

Zuma · Jun 11, 2015

This thread seems to have gone off in a bizarre direction. Tim Wright is released. CLEARLY Gronk and Chandler are more talented at catching the ball then Wright. That was Wright's bread and butter. Even Fred Davis is far more talented at catching a football then Wright.

Ok...then what can Wright do in other areas to compensate? Not much at all. All other TE's on the roster can block better then Wright....and in an AFC that is greatly improved on the defensive side....yeah that's super important.

Mankins is no longer on the team.

Tim Wright released

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