Why I think Kraft caved in.

RayClay said:

No, he saw the case was a joke and fully expected no punishment and an apology. He was blind sided, like I and all fans were, I suspect. In his statement he said the punishment was wrong, the process was wrong and it was a crock.

He implied that the league was corrupt and fixed, but it would be stupid to say that, because there needs to be a cohesive league, hopefully after goodsmells is gone.

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Unfortunately, i think you are dreaming if you put that the Kraft has any secret plan to oust Goodell. I from the beginning realized that this was a crock but had come to the conclusion the Goodell was a biased POS and the Pats would be punished more severely for nothing than Jets for tampering. From the day Goodell became commissioner Kraft has supported him fully to the obvious detriment of his team. However when he made the statement of protest and support for his team I thought he had come to realize the truth about the POS. Then came his patheticly abject surrender speech in which he all but thanked the POS and his partners for allowing in the club and that whatever punishment was given he would accept with a bare whimper of protest. I think it would have been better if he just kept his mouth shut in the beginning of the punishment and let people think he was gutless than engage in the farce of a protest and prove that he was a hypocrite and coward who is indifferent to the team and its fans as long as he is tolerated by his partners.

flasox27 said:

Unfortunately, i think you are dreaming if you put that the Kraft has any secret plan to oust Goodell. I from the beginning realized that this was a crock but had come to the conclusion the Goodell was a biased POS and the Pats would be punished more severely for nothing than Jets for tampering. From the day Goodell became commissioner Kraft has supported him fully to the obvious detriment of his team. However when he made the statement of protest and support for his team I thought he had come to realize the truth about the POS. Then came his patheticly abject surrender speech in which he all but thanked the POS and his partners for allowing in the club and that whatever punishment was given he would accept with a bare whimper of protest. I think it would have been better if he just kept his mouth shut in the beginning of the punishment and let people think he was gutless than engage in the farce of a protest and prove that he was a hypocrite and coward who is indifferent to the team and its fans as long as he is tolerated by his partners.

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As I stated, I think he said what he felt and was shocked at the ridiculous punishment. His statements bear that out. i posted them in another thread.

I really don't know why participating in a rigged appeals process where he has no legal rights of any kind would make him brave. it would make him stupid and when we lost, all the "fans" and know nothings would say we were now proven cheaters, because they would think it was a legal process.

1960Pats said:

Kraft's lack of support and brushing aside of the fans is what bothers me most.

It's very possible that I will walk away from the game I have liked so much, even after 55 years. How this whole fiasco plays out may or may not have an affect on whether I follow Brady out that door when he retires.

I doubt that Brady will have a one-on-one sit down talk with Goodell. Not without a lawyer. He'b be crazy to do it and if he did he'd be crazy to trust anything Fraudger would have to say.

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Agree with all.
Last point is well taken.
Even worse, knowing how Goodell says things readily disprovable I would EXPECT Roger to lie blatantly about what transpired in any (foolish) private meeting. Media would echo and amplify anything he claimed, saying that Brady & Pats are proven cheaters with a track record. So no meeting Goodell without bringing an activist counsel documenting every single word.

I went through ALL the crappy owners and teams since 1960. You know what we put up with. Even so, I've gone from being a big Kraft fan to considering walking away after Brady BB depart. No slam on Garapollo intended.

1960Pats said:

Well said, and if it were just bitter fans it would be one thing. But corruption of the games on the field by those who administer it is unacceptable to me. If the Pats lose a game because someone in the league doesn't want them to win, for any reason, then that is cheating in it's worst form. If that's the case then it becomes wrestling with it's phony winners. No thanks.

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Maybe that is what was really bothering me most when I was re-watching the Pats vs Ravens and Colts highlights.

All it would take is a phantom penalty to derail one of those critical plays. Reversing even one in the Ravens game could have meant that the Pats don't even make it to the Superbowl, and Tom Brady still can't get #4, and Malcolm Butler is just a 2nd year UDFA trying to hold onto a roster spot.

I think the chances of phantom penalties against the Pats is much higher now due to league-wide animosity towards the Pats.

Professional wrestling indeed.

RayClay said:

As I stated, I think he said what he felt and was shocked at the ridiculous punishment. His statements bear that out. i posted them in another thread.

I really don't know why participating in a rigged appeals process where he has no legal rights of any kind would make him brave. it would make him stupid and when we lost, all the "fans" and know nothings would say we were now proven cheaters, because they would think it was a legal process.

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Obviously your opinion of his concession news conference is different than most people here including myself. You chose to focus on the few and meaning less words of disagreement with the punishment. While I and most others saw a pathetic putz pleading to remain part of the the fraternity willing to accept whatever it takes to belong. Even if he lacked the willingness to appeal for whatever reasons, there was no need for him to concede in such a pathetic manner kissing the rear end of the POS and showing by his actions the team and its fans were of negligible importance in contrast to the League.

To answer the original question of the thread: Money, peer pressure, lack of sack, not wanting to be evicted from the Billionaire's club.........

flasox27 said:

Obviously your opinion of his concession news conference is different than most people here including myself. You chose to focus on the few and meaning less words of disagreement with the punishment. While I and most others saw a pathetic putz pleading to remain part of the the fraternity willing to accept whatever it takes to belong. Even if he lacked the willingness to appeal for whatever reasons, there was no need for him to concede in such a pathetic manner kissing the rear end of the POS and showing by his actions the team and its fans were of negligible importance in contrast to the League.

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I get over emotional reactions in a reasonable amount of time and attempt to think logically, even about a situation as ridiculous an unfair as this one.

It's not that he caved in that bothers me but the fact that he let Tom Brady, Bill Belichick down and left the fans hanging.

He should never have come out with the fighting talk he did if there was even a smidgeon of a chance that he was going to accept the penalties. He had the fans riding a wave of fury and ready for the big fight to clear the Patriots of any wrongdoing and then he just takes the punishment.

As for Brady, I'd imagine he was fuming when he got the news that Kraft was bending over and taking it. I don't know how Belichick felt about it but for me I would think that Kraft let those guys down because their legacies will be questioned by the masses now.

I think he took the punishment because he was being forced that way by politics amongst the owners.

eagle eye said:

It's not that he caved in that bothers me but the fact that he let Tom Brady, Bill Belichick down and left the fans hanging.

He should never have come out with the fighting talk he did if there was even a smidgeon of a chance that he was going to accept the penalties.

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What penalties? He was expecting an apology. We were all expecting the report to blame the colts and the league, if you recall.

It would be nice if we all could go back in time and change what we said, knowing what actually occurred, but we can't.

I think he took the punishment because he was being forced that way by politics amongst the owners.

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No, because he has no power to change any punisment. There is no mechanism to reverse any punishment of goodell's on an owner by anyone but goodell.

The Gr8est said:

Maybe that is what was really bothering me most when I was re-watching the Pats vs Ravens and Colts highlights.

All it would take is a phantom penalty to derail one of those critical plays. Reversing even one in the Ravens game could have meant that the Pats don't even make it to the Superbowl, and Tom Brady still can't get #4, and Malcolm Butler is just a 2nd year UDFA trying to hold onto a roster spot.

I think the chances of phantom penalties against the Pats is much higher now due to league-wide animosity towards the Pats.

Professional wrestling indeed.

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Your post epitomizes why I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for Patriots football.
I cannot watch NYFL games without seriously wondering if some call will be made or fail to be made that will derail Pats playoff success. I never felt that way about the NFL previously but now our owner has declared OPEN SEASON on our favorite team. Does anyone here think that there will be any repercussions were a ref to make a mistake and instead of making a subtle anti-Pats call make a blatant mistake not easily dismissed by the broadcasters? Nothing will be done to his career as a ref.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Your post epitomizes why I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for Patriots football.
I cannot watch NYFL games without seriously wondering if some call will be made or fail to be made that will derail Pats playoff success. I never felt that way about the NFL previously but now our owner has declared OPEN SEASON on our favorite team. Does anyone here think that there will be any repercussions were a ref to make a mistake and instead of making a subtle anti-Pats call make a blatant mistake not easily dismissed by the broadcasters? Nothing will be done to his career as a ref.

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He'll probably get assigned a plum playoff game, maybe even a Super Bowl.......

PatsWickedPissah said:

Your post epitomizes why I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for Patriots football.
I cannot watch NYFL games without seriously wondering if some call will be made or fail to be made that will derail Pats playoff success. I never felt that way about the NFL previously but now our owner has declared OPEN SEASON on our favorite team. Does anyone here think that there will be any repercussions were a ref to make a mistake and instead of making a subtle anti-Pats call make a blatant mistake not easily dismissed by the broadcasters? Nothing will be done to his career as a ref.

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Those cheats by the NYFL have already happened. If not, B&B could have won half of the SB's played during their time together. I don't wonder if it will happen in the future but how . I think removing key players at key times because of "medical reasons" will be a favorite.

Given that belief of possible NYFL "intervention"which I had previously dismissed as tin foil hat thinking, I'm having a difficult time getting pumped for the 2015 season.
One way I may approach it is to try to watch just to enjoy individual players' performances.
Sadly this approaches stat boy fantasy football in my mind.

fourhour said:

George Carlin called it, "The ****ification of America"!

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Rather than feminization, I call it the Coltification of the NFL.

The grandfather of Coltification was Mr. Rule change, Bill Polian.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Given that belief of possible NYFL "intervention"which I had previously dismissed as tin foil hat thinking, I'm having a difficult time getting pumped for the 2015 season.
One way I may approach it is to try to watch just to enjoy individual players' performances.
Sadly this approaches stat boy fantasy football in my mind.

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Nearly twenty years ago when we moved into our house I told my wife she could do whatever she wanted to the house as long as I got a basketball backboard in the driveway and a satellite dish to get the NFL package which was in its infancy. I have had the NFL package since then without interruption..until now. I cancelled it and while I won't be able to watch Pats games at home, for those games not on free TV, I'll go to a local sports bar.At least I won't be giving Goodell/Kraft et al $300 plus per year.....

PatsWickedPissah said:

Your post epitomizes why I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for Patriots football.
I cannot watch NYFL games without seriously wondering if some call will be made or fail to be made that will derail Pats playoff success. I never felt that way about the NFL previously but now our owner has declared OPEN SEASON on our favorite team. Does anyone here think that there will be any repercussions were a ref to make a mistake and instead of making a subtle anti-Pats call make a blatant mistake not easily dismissed by the broadcasters? Nothing will be done to his career as a ref.

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This entire episode reminds me of the last episode of The Wire. The newspaper writerwho made everything up wins the Pulitzer, the Police captain who covers up the fake serial killer gets promoted to chief of the state police etc....

RayClay said:

As I stated, I think he said what he felt and was shocked at the ridiculous punishment. His statements bear that out. i posted them in another thread.

I really don't know why participating in a rigged appeals process where he has no legal rights of any kind would make him brave. it would make him stupid and when we lost, all the "fans" and know nothings would say we were now proven cheaters, because they would think it was a legal process.

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You keep stacking the deck of your argument with the 'fact' that the hearing would be rigged. That is not known, and I and others have listed many reasons that it is not a certainty at all.

AndyJohnson said:

You keep stacking the deck of your argument with the 'fact' that the hearing would be rigged. That is not known, and I and others have listed many reasons that it is not a certainty at all.

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I agree with anyone who thinks the outcome would have been predetermined but I disagree that Kraft should have caved because of it. What mattered was the ground the Patriots were making by exposing the Wells Report for the piece of garbage that it was, and by hammering away publicly, it was raising new questions and keeping those raised in the news, that's why Kraft said he wanted to "end the rhetoric" that he felt was damaging " the shield, " and pissing off his billionaire buddies. Regardless of the predetermined outcome Kraft should have gone down swinging and not folded to stay in good standing with the billionaires boys club. Unfortunately his membership in that club mattered more to him than the reputation of his franchise or QB.

RayClay said:

No, because he has no power to change any punisment. There is no mechanism to reverse any punishment of goodell's on an owner by anyone but goodell.

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I've been wondering about that.... The best leaders are able to get the fanatics to fight their battles for them. Not that Bob Kraft would do this, but I wonder about this scenario with Jonathan: Brady and NFLPA wind up taking Goodell to court because he won't fully overturn Bracy's suspension. Injunction issued, and by next February an arbiter winds up completely overturning Brady's ruling due to lack of evidence. Next step: in FA in 2016, the Patriots offer a mega contract to a Franchise Player or to an RFA with a 1st round tender, and that player signs it. NFL rejects the contract as they say the Patriots have no first round pick for compensation so they can't make the offer. Well, now this has moved into the NFLPA's domain - the league discipline has now directly impacted one of its members. So then NFLPA sues on behalf of its player, using lack of evidence victory from earlier as part of its arguments.

Not bloody likely, but would be a way to have someone else - a fanatic - fight your fight for you with potentially a better shot at winning.

Ivan said:

I agree with anyone who thinks the outcome would have been predetermined but I disagree that Kraft should have caved because of it. What mattered was the ground the Patriots were making by exposing the Wells Report for the piece of garbage that it was, and by hammering away publicly, it was raising new questions and keeping those raised in the news, that's why Kraft said he wanted to "end the rhetoric" that he felt was damaging " the shield, " and pissing off his billionaire buddies. Regardless of the predetermined outcome Kraft should have gone down swinging and not folded to stay in good standing with the billionaires boys club. Unfortunately his membership in that club mattered more to him than the reputation of his franchise or QB.

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But saying he couldn't win is just an excuse for what he did. There is no way to know what would have happened, and if Kraft put a commissioner in place, and continues to support him, hell supported him that day, that would listen to a compelling argument that Wells was wrong and tell Kraft he still has to take it up the @ss even though they did nothing, then Kraft is a bigger moron than I ever thought.