Patriots Release Additional Deflategate E-mails

Patsfanin Philly · May 17, 2015

How long until Goodell imposes a gag order on leaks from the Patriots....
"ain't no fun when the deer has the gun"

Ring 6 · May 17, 2015

Deus Irae said:
He sure didn't like 16 psi.

So what you are saying is Tom Brady is on record not wanting to use improperly inflated footballs?

Haley · May 17, 2015

Ross12 said:
It's theoretically possible for McNally to be a football-deflating savant and be needling each ball for 1 second extremely quickly, but to believe this to be the case would mean you'd be pulling a Wells and only believing half of Anderson's memory and working off the Non-Logo gauge, and even then, all the other contributing factors to potential PSI loss go a very long way toward showing the resulting levels at halftime were simply due to nature and in-game factors.

I can fully see a scenario where Brady puts the fear of god in Jastremski after a bad PSI day (i.e. Jets game) who then berates McNally that the balls better be right or Brady will flip out, causing McNally to just let a little air out before games thinking it'll keep Brady happy. However, this still does not give any indication that Brady was part of the operation, and all of it could simply be a byproduct of his overly intense persona at times.

And even then, if you were to only believe half of Anderson's memory, believe none of the in-game factors made much difference, AND believe that Brady caused ball deflating to occur either by direct command or indirect rage, what you're left with is one dude needling a ball for a second. This is $25k fine material and that's it.

I believe the term you are looking for here is Occam's Razor which dictates, "among competing hypotheses that predict equally well, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected". It is this philosophical argument that makes your conclusion the logical one. People are free to have their own opinion on this subject, but only one conclusion is the logical one.

PatsFanInVa · May 17, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
ALERT!!!! ALERT!!!!

Logic being used to question NFL authority. Turn off your computer at once or face consequences. Refer to conclusions made by Minister of Propaganda, Ted Wells, sanctioned by The Fuhrer Roger Goodell.

Long live the Fuhrer.

ALERT!!!! ALERT!!!!

(I am Jewish, so I can use this over-the-top analogy, right?)

Possible in-family responses
"You can but you'll live to regret it, you should live so long!"

Possible "other" responses...

"You know who else used over-the-top analogies? HITLER!"

Deus Irae · May 17, 2015

Mack Herron said:
I would suggest it is a bit harder than you're making it out to be.

It's not. It's incredibly easy. The NY Daily News deflated 12 balls in 40 seconds, for example.

There are plenty of holes in the Wells report. Deflating the footballs quickly is not one of them.

Patriot_in_NY · May 17, 2015

I personally think his best defense is that he was only in there for 95 seconds. If this was such a nonchalant practice (as far as the refs not busting his stones about walking off with the bag of footballs to the field unaccompanied), then he would not have felt nearly as "under the gun" to get it all done in under 1:25 minutes, which while theoretically possible, certainly would have required quite a bit a skill and precision. Think about it. Walk in, lock door, empty correct bag on to floor, then pick up each football individually, insert needle then "squeeze test" it to make sure it was okay, put single football back into bag, unlock door, leave bathroom and try not to look sweaty and out of breath. To get that done in 95 seconds may be POSSIBLE, but if you know you are not being accompanied and nobody has every questioned you about it before (since it's assumed the Patriots would do this at every home game). Why hurry so much?

Why not take 140-180 seconds to do it. If anyone would have questioned him he could either say "Oh sorry, I had to take a dump" or " Sorry, I bumped into Joe Blow and he asked be where we kept the 'grid squares' and I got distracted answering him". I mean serious, if the process was so loose (as admitted by Wells in the interview), the fact that he only took 95 secs in the bathroom tells me that he likely was just taking a leisurely piss before spending the next 90 minutes in cold rainy conditions, and not making some superhuman effort to "soften" 12 balls specifically to Brady's liking.

Sure, it could have happened, which is what the "haters" are hanging onto, but the reality is................ He was probably just taking a piss, as the Patriots allege.

NashuaPats · May 17, 2015

The logic behind this whole mess from the first accusation to the investigation to the science to the punishment is so reminiscent of the witch scene from Monty Python.

Watch this and tell me if they aren't similar.

Ring 6 · May 17, 2015

Patriot_in_NY said:
I personally think his best defense is that he was only in there for 95 seconds. If this was such a nonchalant practice (as far as the refs not busting his stones about walking off with the bag of footballs to the field unaccompanied), then he would not have felt nearly as "under the gun" to get it all done in under 1:25 minutes, which while theoretically possible, certainly would have required quite a bit a skill and precision. Think about it. Walk in, lock door, empty correct bag on to floor, then pick up each football individually, insert needle then "squeeze test" it to make sure it was okay, put single football back into bag, unlock door, leave bathroom and try not to look sweaty and out of breath. To get that done in 95 seconds may be POSSIBLE, but if you know you are not being accompanied and nobody has every questioned you about it before (since it's assumed the Patriots would do this at every home game). Why hurry so much?

Why not take 140-180 seconds to do it. If anyone would have questioned him he could either say "Oh sorry, I had to take a dump" or " Sorry, I bumped into Joe Blow and he asked be where we kept the 'grid squares' and I got distracted answering him". I mean serious, if the process was so loose (as admitted by Wells in the interview), the fact that he only took 95 secs in the bathroom tells me that he likely was just taking a leisurely piss before spending the next 90 minutes in cold rainy conditions, and not making some superhuman effort to "soften" 12 balls specifically to Brady's liking.

Sure, it could have happened, which is what the "haters" are hanging onto, but the reality is................ He was probably just taking a piss, as the Patriots allege.

The best defense is that the science proves the balls were not deflated.
Even at its least Patriot-friendly, the science says the measurements are all within what science proves within any reasonable room for error.
There is no need to know what happened in the bathroom if there is no problem with the balls to explain.
Further, you have consistent testimony stating nothing happened and no testimony or legitimate evidence that proves anyone is lying.

Under this standard, everyone is guilty of everything.
A claim was made that footballs were under inflated. They were. However, the underinflation is due to weather conditions, and numerous scientist have confirmed that.
Everyone involved says they did nothing to alter the footballs. No one saw anything happen. No evidence of something happening to the footballs has been presented.
To 'convict' you must overlook science and tell a number of people that they are lying and that someone elses interpretation of the meaning of their texts are more likely than their own, even though the evidence says there was no manipulation of the balls. Therefore we must assume that texts unrelated to that day events, and Wells interpretation of them proves the balls were tampered with as the full and complete evidence.

RunAmok · May 17, 2015

Mack Herron said:
I would suggest it is a bit harder than you're making it out to be. One could question whether a guy as meticulous as Brady who said he likes them at 12.5 would accept a procedure such as "squeeze test", which will be less accurate than a gauge. But for the sake of discussion, let's say the Deflator is applying a squeeze test. When he encounters a ball at 16 psi it will feel hard--it won't pass the squeeze test, and he would deflate it to something similar to 12.5 psi (by the squeeze test). But on this day, the NFL was paying unusual attention to ball pressure because Walt Anderson had been tipped off to the sting. It seems to me he would take care to put the balls at the desired 12.5 (after all, he knew what was at stake). When the Deflator gets into the men's room to apply the squeeze test, none of the balls feel hard, so there is no need to deflate. But you are suggesting that even though they pass the squeeze test, the Deflator sticks a needle in every ball for just a second to let out an amount of air that is undetectably different by the squeeze test. Why would he do this? If he were afraid that Brady was such a stickler and he did not want to risk his wrath, he would surely bring a gauge into the men's room and take no chances with his squeeze test being different than Brady's. But if he took a gauge into the room, (a) he would find all the balls around 12.5 without need for adjustment, and (b) he would not be able to obtain accurate measurements within the allotted time. (Did your tv show use a pressure gauge?). Either scenario--the squeeze test or the gauge-- strains credulity, as the Patriots counsel has suggested.

It doesn't work that way. McNally inflates the balls to 12.6 before he gives them to the refs to test. He reminds them multiple times that the balls should be set to 12.5 which is within the rules. Anderson remembers that each ball is set to 12.5. There would be no need to change anything about the balls.

The Jets game issue most likely resulted in a ref squeezing a ball and saying it felt soft and another ref adding air and neither bothering to check the final psi. These are guys that handle to balls more than anybody and they can't tell the difference between 12.5 and 16!!

All Brady ever asked for is for the balls to be set to the legal range. There is zero evidence of anything else. This is all just the NFL forcing an outcome and only connecting the many disparate dots that lead you to this outcome. This is not justice or fairness - it is a classic example of railroading, Stalin would be envious of the way Goodell ran this.

Ring 6 · May 17, 2015

Deus Irae said:
It's not. It's incredibly easy. The NY Daily News deflated 12 balls in 40 seconds, for example.

There are plenty of holes in the Wells report. Deflating the footballs quickly is not one of them.

While I have no clue or care about whether you can deflate footballs in 95 seconds, a test to see how fast you can do it is not scientifically significant to how long it would take to deflate footballs with a predetermined result in mind.
For example, I can do many things faster than 95 seconds if you ask me to prove I can, but I don't normally.
This would include, among others things
Take a shower
Drink a beer
Eat a burger
Dress
Shave
Write this post

I could do any of those, but not very well

NashuaPats · May 17, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
While I have no clue or care about whether you can deflate footballs in 95 seconds, a test to see how fast you can do it is not scientifically significant to how long it would take to deflate footballs with a predetermined result in mind.
For example, I can do many things faster than 95 seconds if you ask me to prove I can, but I don't normally.
This would include, among others things
Take a shower
Drink a beer
Eat a burger
Dress
Shave
Write this post

I could do any of those, but not very well

Here's the video.
http://video.nydailynews.com/Done-in-40-Seconds-Newser-Deflates-12-Footballs-in-40-Seconds-28443950

The guy isn't exactly trying to be careful or precise. I suspect Brady would not want a part time employee who works 10 to 12 days per year handling the balls in such a manner. What if the guy screwed up and let out too much air or didn't lock the door, or the officals outside the bathroom heard pssssst 12 times? All this to release 0.3 to 0.4 psi?

Seriously, this makes my head want to

nowayback · May 17, 2015

That way it can be done. ie stick a needle in and out, not much meaning to me, might as well tell Tom you did it, and don't do it. When angry Tb say she wants balls a certain way, you better be measuring each ball.
Wells bs is based on the presumption that TB is very precise on how he wants his balls. What does that vid have to do with anything meaningful? Its like saying the wait between 2 txt msgs is suspicious, and since there was a 3 min gap a msg must have been deleted for good.

Anyway vid is good for mass consumption

SteveBsFan · May 17, 2015

BradyBranch39 said:
Here's a question: If McNally was truly in the bathroom to deflate footballs, why would he have limited himself to 95 seconds?

He wouldn't have.

He was in there for only 95 seconds, because as I've said for months, he was peeing.

^^ this

According to the report, it is speculated that this has been going on for a long time. Like, years.

So, why would he rush it?

Sure, it probably wouldn't take him longer than 2-3 mins to do it properly, but why rush it during the most important game of the season?

Cameras? He had allegedly been doing it for years. I doubt he was suddenly scared of the cameras.

Time? As the report says, there was still about 20 minutes prior to kickoff

Security? The league clearly showed no signs of caring prior to this game. Why would he think someone is tracking his progress through the halls?

Lack of excuse? Yes, taking a piss is about 90 seconds, but if he remained in there longer, he could have said he was taking a dump. Pissing isn't the only bathroom activity.

This whole thing is an embarrassment and a witch hunt. Simply put, people love a conspiracy theory. Cheating is much easier to believe for other fans considering their team probably sucks

Mack Herron · May 17, 2015

RunAmok said:
It doesn't work that way. McNally inflates the balls to 12.6 before he gives them to the refs to test. He reminds them multiple times that the balls should be set to 12.5 which is within the rules. Anderson remembers that each ball is set to 12.5. There would be no need to change anything about the balls.

The Jets game issue most likely resulted in a ref squeezing a ball and saying it felt soft and another ref adding air and neither bothering to check the final psi. These are guys that handle to balls more than anybody and they can't tell the difference between 12.5 and 16!!

All Brady ever asked for is for the balls to be set to the legal range. There is zero evidence of anything else. This is all just the NFL forcing an outcome and only connecting the many disparate dots that lead you to this outcome. This is not justice or fairness - it is a classic example of railroading, Stalin would be envious of the way Goodell ran this.

This scenario, which seems to be what the NFL is suggesting, stipulates that Brady wants the balls not just "soft" but some unspecified amount softer than the allowable 12.5 which, as you say, is actually contradicted by multiple statements from Brady, both public and in private texts. So the NFL is claiming that Brady was part of an illegal conspiracy for which there is zero evidence and the evidence contradicting this conspiracy are deliberate lies cleverly left to mislead people not quite as smart as Ted Wells. Have I got it?

PatsFanInVa · May 17, 2015

NashuaPats said:
The logic behind this whole mess from the first accusation to the investigation to the science to the punishment is so reminiscent of the witch scene from Monty Python.

Watch this and tell me if they aren't similar.

12 It should be noted that although Walt Anderson claimed that Jastesmski and McNally never turned him into a newt, it is much more likely that they did, but that he got better.

Deus Irae · May 17, 2015

NashuaPats said:
Here's the video.
http://video.nydailynews.com/Done-in-40-Seconds-Newser-Deflates-12-Footballs-in-40-Seconds-28443950

The guy isn't exactly trying to be careful or precise. I suspect Brady would not want a part time employee who works 10 to 12 days per year handling the balls in such a manner. What if the guy screwed up and let out too much air or didn't lock the door, or the officals outside the bathroom heard pssssst 12 times? All this to release 0.3 to 0.4 psi?

Seriously, this makes my head want to

View attachment 9341

nowayback said:
That way it can be done. ie stick a needle in and out, not much meaning to me, might as well tell Tom you did it, and don't do it. When angry Tb say she wants balls a certain way, you better be measuring each ball.
Wells bs is based on the presumption that TB is very precise on how he wants his balls. What does that vid have to do with anything meaningful? Its like saying the wait between 2 txt msgs is suspicious, and since there was a 3 min gap a msg must have been deleted for good.

Anyway vid is good for mass consumption

What people suspect Brady would want, or what you think Tom would want, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that is can be done. Does that mean that it was done? Absolutely not.

What is means is simple: It can be done. In other words, it shows opportunity.

nowayback · May 17, 2015

Deus Irae said:
What people suspect Brady would want, or what you think Tom would want, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that is can be done. Does that mean that it was done? Absolutely not.

What is means is simple: It can be done. In other words, it shows opportunity.

So you are saying he had the opportunity....motive(brady....angry) means?> needle? does it have to be found on his person?

GaryfromTO · May 17, 2015

there were two f'n gauges.
the logo and the non logo. one measured approx. 2 PSI lower than the other
when the Patriots balls were measured pre-game it was more probable than not the lower measuring gauge was used.
As stated when they were measured at 1/2 time. with one gauge (again probably the same one they were tested with pre-game)they were slight lower which can be attributed to weather and the natural gas law.
on the other gauge they measured lower, and they would have measured approx. 2 lbs lower simply because the gauge was not the same one they were pregame measured with.
McNally went to the bathroom to take a whiz.

I didn't need 103 days and million dollar investigations to figure this out.

It's so f'n obvious.

Deus Irae · May 17, 2015

nowayback said:
So you are saying he had the opportunity....motive(brady....angry) means?> needle? does it have to be found on his person?

I'm not saying he had motive, and I'm not saying he had means. I'm saying that, given the time required to do the job, as demonstrated by others, his time in the bathroom was long enough to have given him the opportunity. It's one point of the Wells report that has held up, to date.

And, no, the needle does not need to be found on his person. He had plenty of time to ditch it after coming out of the bathroom.

Tony2046 · May 17, 2015

Funny thing is that McNally is 48 years old and considered a "big fella". I too am 48 and am considered a "big fella". Ok my wife says fat but I prefer big fella. haha One thing that happens when you get older and gain weight is that you start taking those last minute leaks before you do something. Before I go to the store, before I get on a plane, before I go to mow the lawn, I am going to take a leak. It's the way it is. So to me it is definitely "more probable than not" that if I was in McNally's shoes I would have stopped to take a leak and it would have probably been about 90 seconds and yes I would have washed my hands afterwards. As a "big fella" I would not have wanted to bend down, dig through a bag of balls (bad knees you know), stick needles hoping not to drop it in the bag and let out 0.3 psi, stand up, zip up the bag. all the while bumping into walls and fiddling with needles and then run out onto the field looking like I just got out of the sauna. No, I truly believe he went in there to take a leak.

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