Talk with Judge - Labor lawyer who deals with Unions every day

reflexblue said:

IMO Brady would never accept anything but un-conditional clearing of his name. So he won't accept the 'the public black eye'.

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There isn't going to be an un-conditional clearing of Brady's name. The public black isn't going away except in New England.

tom444 said:

There isn't going to be an un-conditional clearing of Brady's name. The public black isn't going away except in New England.

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Duh, by the league FO. By goodell and or vincent.

DarrylS said:

Without regard the damage is done, the theme of the press is our "golden boy" is a cheater and needs to be severely punished.. that cannot be changed. First I had issues with the term, "More probable than not" and now have issues with understanding what "generally aware" means in legalese... if More Probable than not is 51%, what is Generally Aware???

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Generally aware is the most broad, least level amount of knowledge you can possibly have to be convicted of whatever your accuser is stating you know. In other words, Wells is accusing Brady of having at the very least a very general awareness that some kind of shenanigans were going on.

Additionally, without having any proof or understanding of what those "inappropriate activities" are that the ballboys are being accused of, or if they ever even occurred; the whole accusation collapses upon itself. Making the fact that Wells and the NFL have tarnished an individual's character on such an unlikely "maybe" unbelievable.

Also please note that "more probably than not" used in Wells Report is not the same legal standard used in court/legal proceedings. Instead, Wells has used it as legal jargon to make his "findings" (if you want to call them that) more convincing. Examining the report, Wells set the bar of "more probably than not" in his report to be one that is very, very low.

reflexblue said:

Duh, by the league.

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By the league? What, the league is going to clear Brady's name? Please, the league gave him the black mark in the first place.

tom444 said:

By the league? What, the league is going to clear Brady's name? Please, the league gave him the black in the first place.

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Ive been here a while now, i don't suffer fools.

reflexblue said:

Ive been here a while now, i don't suffer fools.

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Then don't act like a fool.

I'm trying to look at this situation logically. The NFL paid Wells probably in excess of a million dollars to write this report. The report, obviously was written with a conclusion in mind. Wells was out there searching for evidence to prove Brady had a hand in deflating footballs. This is what he came back with, the most flimsy and circumstantial evidence possible. Not to mention hiring a firm with a history of manipulating scientific results to get the answer their employer wants. It all reeks so much of a thinly veiled hatchet job. Here's what I think.

I think Goodell is bluffing. There's no way everyone is in agreement. Brady would be crazy to say, sure, I'll take this black mark on my professional image and take the fall on this stuff so the league doesn't look inept. No, this is a gamble by Goodell. I'm sure he didn't think the report would come back so weak. But at this point he had no choice. The ball has already gotten rolling, Goodell chose who he was going to protect in this fiasco and if Brady plays this right. He can out these assholes in the league office. If he wants to take it that far and I hope he does.

tom444 said:

Then don't act like a fool.

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Ahh, another clown on ignore.

reflexblue said:

IMO Brady would never accept anything less than the un-conditional clearing of his name. So he won't accept the 'the public black eye'.

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I sure hope this is what he'll do. It's possible that Brady is gaining more income from sources outside football based on his name and image, and as such he might want to sue the NFL and the Wells investigation for defamation, since the report conclusion might have an impact on his other incomes (other than his salary from the Pats).

I think Brady will probably stops if, after an arbitration ruling, any penalty and suspension are reversed, but I would love to see him going after the NFL for tarnishing his name.

Dr Pain said:

Goodell won't do the smart thing and he will go after Brady big time. The crowd wants Brady's blood and Goodell is too weak to not give it to them. When it gets overturned, he can say he tried. The biggest risk to Goodell is if Brady does not win arbitration and Brady seeks legal action and starts discovery.

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Goodell doesnt even want to put his name to the punishment because he knows what is going to happen. That's why it was announced Troy Vincent will decide on the punishment. Which no-one is believing. Goodell is just using Vincent as a puppet so when the legal process takes place he can just pass the buck and say he had no involvment in the process it was Ted Wells and Troy Vincent.

When did Brady become management anyways? If he did have "general awareness" how is it his fault? His job is QB.

PatsWickedPissah said:

EXCEPT BRADY!!!!

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Yes. Brady's reputation is worth hundreds of millions in endorsements. If, as some speculate, he also has political ambitions, being labelled a cheater would be a hard barrier to overcome. Brady cannot let himself be hung out to dry on this just so Goodell and the Krafts can continue to be collegial dinner partners.

RDS11 said:

I sure hope this is what he'll do. It's possible that Brady is gaining more income from sources outside football based on his name and image, and as such he might want to sue the NFL and the Wells investigation for defamation, since the report conclusion might have an impact on his other incomes (other than his salary from the Pats).

I think Brady will probably stops if, after an arbitration ruling, any penalty and suspension are reversed, but I would love to see him going after the NFL for tarnishing his name.

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I think if the penalty is reversed along with the suspension i could see him accepting that. But as we all know brady is such a competitor that he may not stop at that. After reading so much in the couple of days here it sounds like it would be a slam dunk to get the suspension dropped. As far as reversing the finding of the wells report: The arbitration case will be followed closely, it will probably be headline news (which is good) from what ive read here an arbitration case is like a trial where both sides get to present evidence. The league attornys will have to rely on the vague wells report, while bradys attornys get to introduce all the factual evidence and cross examine the leagues witnesses. So much could be presented to dispute the wells report ( the actual tests on the balls, the to pats employees, i read that there were four people interviewed and all four cleared brady, but wells thought they all lied even though they all told the same story while being interviewed separately, bradys actual statement etc) that it would be pretty compelling even to many that bought the wells report initially. To much for me to write on an i pad.

Dr Pain said:

Goodell won't do the smart thing and he will go after Brady big time. The crowd wants Brady's blood and Goodell is too weak to not give it to them. When it gets overturned, he can say he tried. The biggest risk to Goodell is if Brady does not win arbitration and Brady seeks legal action and starts discovery.

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Pontious Pilate Goodell is in a bad situation. The non believers are screaming for blood and Goodell knows that the case is shaky at best. If the "correct" determination on the PSI readings are left to someone's memory...look out. Don Yee and the NFLPA can come up with 50 reports saying the balls PSI were a correct indicator of the game conditions. If that's the case, the deal could be sealed as" a ...ya....,well...ok, I guess" and this madness stops.

When the argument that the Colts footballs, even though the Officials who handle footballs as their job, only "had time" to review just a few after they sat and got warmer for 12 minutes while our Superman of deflation could do 12 balls in 90 seconds whole urinating, this is a career accident waiting to happen for someone who says this is the smoking gun.

As a matter of fact, $5 million for Wells? His rep as any kind of third party "neutral" investigator is shot dead as a clean report this was not. I could have done the same hatchet job for $500. Truth be known, the other NFL Owners (you know, .......the ones that won't spend money for goal line cameras. Would not that help with the integrity of the game?) must be PISSED for this waste of paper. For Mr. Goodell trying to prove that he has control over the ship and Rice decisions are a thing of the past, my thoughts are he is taking on the wrong guy.

Brady does not have a choice if he is suspended. He must be aggressive against this stupid set up.

My biggest outrage in this is that the NFL agreed to a sting and Wells is lying. Now what if Yee goes after him and he has to admit that? The NFLPA and Yee have caught Wells in a major league vise. Oh how the tables will turn. Will the NFL want to see that? Their records, phone messages, texts and conferences will be subpoenaed. The NFL did not need this whether it was Brady, Rodgers or Teddy Bridgewater they tried to sting. What were they thinking?

These are my opinions and they could be all wrong.
DW Toys

If an arbitrator overturns a suspension it doesn't mean the player is innocent. Ray Rice's indefinite suspension was overturned, that didn't change the fact that he hit his wife. A reduction of a suspension in Brady's case, if it comes to that, won't clear his name, or make him either innocent or guilty.

#12 said:

Generally aware is the most broad, least level amount of knowledge you can possibly have to be convicted of whatever your accuser is stating you know. In other words, Wells is accusing Brady of having at the very least a very general awareness that some kind of shenanigans were going on.

Additionally, without having any proof or understanding of what those "inappropriate activities" are that the ballboys are being accused of, or if they ever even occurred; the whole accusation collapses upon itself. Making the fact that Wells and the NFL have tarnished an individual's character on such an unlikely "maybe" unbelievable.

Also please note that "more probably than not" used in Wells Report is not the same legal standard used in court/legal proceedings. Instead, Wells has used it as legal jargon to make his "findings" (if you want to call them that) more convincing. Examining the report, Wells set the bar of "more probably than not" in his report to be one that is very, very low.

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Actually "more probable than not" is the standard that the NFL uses to adjudge a persons culpability... my understanding is that it is used in civil proceedings, and loosely means more than 50% probable....

"More probable than not" is the standard of evidence used in the NFL..

My question was is "generally aware" a legal standard.. or just lawyer jargon..

Although I am firmly in the very lonely camp (north of Hartford) that has applied my common sense to the situation and determined a level of guilt on all parties, I would die to be representing Brady in the likely arbitration hearing. Regarding the texts between the low level employees that took place months prior to the AFC championship game, I would simply ask the arbiter to toss out these conversations because there is no relevant connection. Are these two employees discussing what they are going to do months in the future at the AFC champ game.....NO?????......then these conversations are irrelevant. I refer to the Hernandez trial where the Judge refused to allow evidence to be entered into the Lloyd case that referred to possible past crimes/murders. Sure Massachusetts operates under different rules than other legal entities but an awful lot of dots need to be connected in order to find Brady guilty on that particular January day.
I would also challenge the NFL's (Wells) unwavering support and therefore total trust of the referees original PSI measurements based on his memory???? Yes.....courts do give significant weight to the words of authorities that have stature....like an NFL official. Regardless, he is an employee of the league, paid by the league, serves the league, beholden to the league. Without a written record......the arbitrator has to factor in the possibility that the ref made an error, misremembered, didn't perform his duty, is lying.
In judging Brady, ultimately this is a case of hearsay.....and the hearsay occurred months prior to the episode in question. Where's the evidence that connects Brady to the AFC Champs game? I can't find any?
I just can't see the NFLPA rolling over on this one. Their guy is about to lose millions in paychecks based on conversations way back in the past. Have charges been brought forward in other games....NO....One game is in question....so lets examine the evidence in one game only.

tom444 said:

If an arbitrator overturns a suspension it doesn't mean the player is innocent. Ray Rice's indefinite suspension was overturned, that didn't change the fact that he hit his wife. A reduction of a suspension in Brady's case, if it comes to that, won't clear his name, or make him either innocent or guilty.

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The bell can't be unrung. This is probably the best Brady will ever get. Even if he sues, wins and in discovery finds evidence of a massive conspiracy, 90% of Americans will ignore it. The judge I spoke with thought Brady probably did it as in their personal experience people in power do things to get what they want though they felt the arbitration should be a piece of cake for Brady assuming Brady was not required to turn over his phone. I brought up the scientific evidence and it just confused the judge. I am certain that if it were presented in a compelling way, such as if they saw the headsmart video, they would understand but that takes a level of commitment to finding the truth that most people just don't care about. This is the problem with the court of public opinion and ultimately why politics is so incredibly crappy as there is little downside to saying something wildly inaccurate if it is what the majority of the public wants to hear.

tom444 said:

If an arbitrator overturns a suspension it doesn't mean the player is innocent. Ray Rice's indefinite suspension was overturned, that didn't change the fact that he hit his wife. A reduction of a suspension in Brady's case, if it comes to that, won't clear his name, or make him either innocent or guilty.

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Not necessarily have been through many arbitrations sometimes decision are made on violation of procedural safeguards.. other times the person making the allegation is flat our wrong and jumped to conclusions..

It will probably never clear his name, but what might happen in the proceeding after they "frame the question" is that they might have to provide more information than we currently know.. i.e. documentation the actual 5 hour question and answer period that he engaged before the "legal gang of 4"..

They implied that Brady did not cooperate, how can he not cooperate if he answered all of their questions in a 5 hour period?? Just because he did not give up his cell phone does not mean he did not cooperate, he still has rights a a citizen..

It is laughable that Walt Anderson the fair haired referee was aware of this possible impropriety, but did nothing to avoid it.. in fact was praised, even though he lost track of the balls and did not document the actual pressure...

reflexblue said:

70K with brady jerseys would be rewarding the NFL , those jerseys would put a lot of money in they're pockets.

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Don't worry, the fans will just buy those cheap knockoffs from China. And make it be known they're knock-offs just to stick it to Goodell.