Welcome to the New England Patriots Jordan Richards

Belichick obviously views and uses the S position differently than the rest of the NFL. He seem to require much more versatility than other systems from the position. Obviously it is difficult to find a player at the position who fits all of his needs, or better put, lacks weakness in areas he finds critical. There is no surprise that he uses a lot of high picks on the position, and really no surprise that some of them don't work out.
Perhaps it is the most difficult position in his system to fill. I'm not sure how using high picks, and having a tough success ratio on the most demanding and difficult to fill position in your system is surprising.
The system wins, and I'd rather spend a lot of picks finding someone who fits in than change the system.

tombonneau said:

And people can slag draftniks all they want, but the wisdom of the crowd generally properly anticipates within a round 80-90% of the first 2-3 rounds of talent.

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And 80% to 90% of the teams picking draftnik blinkies off Mel Kiper's draft board in the first 2 - 3 rounds haven't sniffed a SuperBowl in years.

Just go back to last year. Which QB had the draftnik buzz? Johnny Manziel or Jimmy Garoppolo? Which one would have been a better pick if they both had been on the board in the 2nd?

Knowing what we know now, Manziel shouldn't have even been draftable. He is bad by any conceivable measure. Garoppolo is, by all accounts, at least a solid NFL backup.

This is exactly why I don't pay any attention to draft prognosticators. Instead of shedding light on the Patriots drafting, it makes it harder to understand what they are doing.

The functional difference between 13 and 17 reps of the 225 lb bench press is approximately zero. There are certain measures strength/speed that are mildly useful in evaluating football players, but the draftniks and bad NFL teams way overrate the combine "measurables".

tombonneau said:

The ultimate comeback. Because only NFL front office people can have opinions.

I did forget Vollmer. They should stick to WTF lineman.

One positive for Richards is that at least he was invited to the combine.

And to people citing Gronk as comparison, it's not even remotely the same thing.

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Did you forget Matt Light, as well? Borges pretty much described him as one of the all time reaches in round 2.

Username said:

And he's got lovely teeth...

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And his hair was perfect...

robertweathers said:

Exactly. I hated the pick last night and said that on this board. Then I slept on it. Watched some film (non-expert level but I do know what a good football player looks like) Saw that his workout at Stanford produced better numbers WITH Caserio there (see Malcolm Butler and his 4.4 at Alabama Pro Day) and working him out personally. Thought about the current roster. Thought about what he could do and now the pick makes sense to me.

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I think this guy is a better prospect than either Wilson or Harmon, and I thought safety was a need anyhow - I'm not convinced that Chung's emergence as an adequate starter wasn't a fluke. I still don't love the pick, but I don't hate it as much as I did last night. Not expecting much but a core special teamer in year 1 (presumably this means we can wave goodbye to Tavon, been fun knowing you). We'll see.

BelichickFan said:

Definitely the most impressive interview I remember from a Patriots draftee. Doesn't mean he can play but an impressive kid.

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Indeed. Highly impressive young man.

Nunchucks said:

I agree, this is clearly the replacement for Tavon Wilson as second round reach that does not actually play.

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Tavon Wilson plays nearly every special teams snap.. more so than Matthew Slater, who is a team captain.

JayNM said:

This is already more than a mere trend. It's BB's MO. The head-scratching picks are made in the second day. BB loves smarts, leadership and Special-Teams value, more so than any other coach IMO. I am not surprised that, once again, we were left wondering who the heck is this guy we drafted.

From what i have read, i disliked the Richards pick.

Tavon Wilson's pro day number:
Dates: 03/06/12
Height: 5116
Weight: 205
40 Yrd Dash: 4.52
20 Yrd Dash: 2.56
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 32
Broad Jump: 10'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.16
3-Cone Drill: 7.04

Jordan Richards'
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 211
Arm Length: 32½"
Hand Size: 9⅜"
10 Yard Dash: 1.63
40 Yard Dash: 4.65
Bench Press: 13
Vertical Jump: 32"
Broad Jump: 111"
3 Cone Drill: 6.74
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.22


His numbers are worse than Tavon's, which is already a subpar athlete at the NFL. And I truly dislike the bench press for Richards. If he indeed does play defense, will he be able to consistently bring down behemoths like Peterson, Lynch or McCoy? Anyway, he sounds like a hardworker and high-intangibles guy, which is HUGE and could make him a great player. I won't be holding my breath, though.

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From everything ive read about him and everything that I've heard said about him from coaches to teammates etc, hes an EXCELLENT tackler... so the fact that he didn't bench press as much as someone else really isn't all that relevant, especially for a safety.. he knows how to properly form tackle which is a lot more valuable than a few more reps of 225 lbs

Chiuba E. Obele said:

five words.... unsound use of draft capital. It might've made more sense for BB to go after higher rated talent, rather than possibly squander his 2nd round pick on a player projected to go in the 6th... It's not so much the player that's the problem, but the slot in the draft where he was chosen that is raising eye brows

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Rated by who?

Don't the teams get to rate players?

Deus Irae said:

The "W's" is an example of arguing/appealing to authority. It's a fallacious argument. This is about drafted players.

Look, every year they hold a draft. Every year there will be discussion about players drafted: that's what a sports forum is all about, after all. Given that BB is not 100% in selecting players who make it in the NFL, it should be obvious, and acceptable, to even the most mind-numbed homer that discussion of said players might include comments that go beyond naked shilling for the team, even to the point of open dislike and criticism of said selection choices.

And, for the record, I was quite fine with last night's pick, and have not commented on either player drafted tonight.

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So W's don't matter? Interesting.

tombonneau said:

Exactly. For an Econ major you'd think BB would put more weight in the perceived market value of assets. Even if you think a player is undervalued that doesn't mean you spend your evaluated amount to acquire him if you think you can get him for less.

And people can slag draftniks all they want, but the wisdom of the crowd generally properly anticipates within a round 80-90% of the first 2-3 rounds of talent. It's infrequent that a guy the masses have going in the sixth or later goes in the second or third.

So it's just logical sense to wait and get that player closer to their perceived value.

Might someone else target him and get him before you can pull the trigger? Yes, that's the perfectly acceptable risk you take. But I wouldn't think that the Pats FO entire draft philosophy hinges on whether or not they are able to draft Jordan Richards. Certainly there are two other players they'd be more than happy to have should they pass on him in the second and then miss their chance in the third or fourth.

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No, I think they wanted him and were willing to risk missing out on others. Considering needs and their 4th round, it looks like they were right to get who they wanted.

primetime said:

I just don't see how anyone can defend a reach pick of a defensive back after Wilson and Harmon.

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Harmon was a late 3rd round pick and has become a useful backup safety who has made a few plays.

I'm not sure what you expect from late 3rd round picks but if your realistic expectations for them are more than what Harmon has provided, I think it's your expectations and not Belichick's drafting that needs to be adjusted.

Has he hit it big? Obviously not. But if you can get a contributing player in the 3rd round, you're doing well. I think some fans would prefer the Pats to take a name player they know and have him fail than get a backup player who is a "reach"

Deus Irae said:

Belichick's draft decisions and the four Super Bowls are two different discussions, despite how the homers try to frame it. Those people who only have "But Bill! Rings!" should probably not bother posting on draft days or in the early days of free agency.

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Lol. Deus Irae. Usually wrong but always right..............

RayClay said:

Rated by who?

Don't the teams get to rate players?

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Fair enough

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Fair enough

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Most teams, and undoubtedly journalists, use these prepackaged scouting service reports. It's no coincidence that the "experts" at both cable networks look like they showed up forgetting to study for the final exam when some of the Patriots picks come up, that's because they're using stale, prefab reports that don't keep up with the actual progress of many college players.

Most, but not all, NFL clubs belong to one of two scouting services known as National Football Scouting and BLESTO. National Scouting is based in Indianapolis and is headed by Jeff Foster, while BLESTO is headquartered in Jacksonville and run by Tom Modrak.

The purpose of these services is to create a prospect list for each of their members. It is basically a starting point that club scouts use when they make their initial school calls in the fall.

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The scouting services create their prospect lists in the spring. While club scouts are going to pro days and gathering information on players in the draft, the scouting service scouts are busy looking at the upcoming seniors. The BLESTO and National scouts are usually assigned an area and are responsible for every school that plays football in that specific region. In the spring, these scouts watch tape, talk to some of the coaches and weigh, measure and sometimes time the seniors to be. If allowed, they will also administer the Wonderlic test to each of the players.

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Once the scouts assemble all of the pertinent information, each one then writes a report and grades every player. He also makes a master list for each school that includes all the seniors, both graded and ungraded. These lists have all the important information such as height, weight, speed, Wonderlic score and grade. Generally speaking, this original list has only one scout’s opinion, as it is not a final grade. It’s a beginning grade to be used as a starting point. There are seldom cross checks done during spring evaluation of juniors.

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While the scouting service scouts spend a majority of their time at the major schools, they are also responsible for the small schools. With these schools, they often talk to a coach to find out who he feels is a legitimate NFL prospect. If the coach recommends a player or players, then the scout will make a school call to watch tape, talk to the coaches and obtain measurables. Just as with the big schools, the scout then creates a master list with graded and ungraded players.

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http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/the-fall-scouting-process/

Alen Dumonjic on twitter:

There's a significant difference in quality when #Patriots S Richards is in underneath coverage vs. deep as single-high. Late reading deep.

He doesn't recognize routes as one should, which is concerning. But underneath and in the box, he recognizes hot routes.

Underneath Richards also has better quickness and passes off WRs well in zone. In man he's physical with WRs.

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Nunchucks said:

I agree, this is clearly the replacement for Tavon Wilson as second round reach that does not actually play.

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Wilson played 324 snaps last year.

Thats quite a lot for someone that doesn't actually play.

It's interesting that three of the most successful teams with very different philosophies eschew the scouting services, despite all the extra work that requires.

According to a 2008 article on Draft Daddy, the teams who were not aligned at the time were the Baltimore Ravens, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, New England Patriots and Oakland Raiders. The Browns have since re-joined BLESTO.

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http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/6/2/...ut-of-national-football-scouting-organizatoin

It's obvious the Ravens have a style that has kept them competitive through periods of varying levels of talent.

I think the most striking example of the lack of a universal "draft board" for teams is the Colts and the Patriots. Laugh at the colts all you want, they were consistently competitive and built around their biggest asset, Peyton, while getting by with really cheap interior lines, small linebackers etc. because they paid for players who fit their style always. good receivers, a running back who could take advantage of passing defenses and fast, undersized pass rushers , who rushed every play.

It would be ludicrous for the Patriots to draft like the colts and vice versa. The Patriots got a lot of mileage out of quick smurfs while making sure they could stop the run, including requiring DE/OLB to set the edge. The Colts don't care if you run until they're being gouged, because they spend on Peyton and receivers to score faster than you and a fast defense designed to stop you from passing enough to catch up.

Just some insight, IMO, why generic lists of "best" players are problematical.

As a parting shot...if you don't know what you're doing or don't have the discipline to keep to your philosophy, you're probably better off using a scouting service. We laugh at Oakland now, but before Al Davis got senile, they were pretty much a dynasty based on Al Davis philosophy and consistency. No Davis and they're just adrift.