Perspective Thread: Belichick briefly explains what he saw in Richards and Grissom

scott99 said:

Yes, because BB has done so well in the draft the last 10 years. Outside of 1st round picks with various degrees of success, name one Patriot's draft choice that has come in rounds 2 and later that has had good to great careers outside of Gronk, Ridley, Vereen, Gostkowski and the murderer. 5 decent to good picks in 10 years.

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Umm- Edelman? Vollmer? I would say Collins and Stork are on their way...

Definitely Harmon made a clutch play we don't best Baltimore without that play.

scott99 said:

This is all good and fine, but you don't draft a special teams gunner in the 2nd round.

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According to both ESPN and NFL network, they did in the fist round, 2010.

dm44 said:

Umm- Edelman? Vollmer? I would say Collins and Stork are on their way...

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That Brady guy is pretty good. Deion Branch, Givens, Troy Brown...

worked out as a tight end.


lol seriously bill..

I don't think there is any such thing as the "best player available." 32 teams, 32 different approaches an needs.

Gwedd said:

I have to trust Bill. After all, his record indicates he drafts by value more than actual need at each pick

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I trust him as well, but FTR, Bill's track record indicates the exact opposite; that need is a primary consideration.

Instead of who......ask WHY?

From a Patriots perspective, my view of this draft has always been....get a sure thing starter in the first round.....and then create organizational depth. Drafting last in every round dictates this philosophy. Given how young the team is, this Super Bowl Championship team I might add, I have to believe BB likes his roster....and by observing BB's lack of activity moving up for specific pieces....and his willingness to move backwards (rumored deal to relinquish #32 and trade 0f #96), I get the feeling BB is not too impressed with the class of '15.

Now...after two nights of drafting defenders only....it is becoming clearer how BB is planning to compensate for the lack of a shut down corner:
Think about it....has NE ever had so many pass rushing tools .... INTERIOR/EDGE/LB. The Patriots now have multiple options at DT to shoot gaps (remember last year's intern Easley ) multiple options at DE (3) who can get after the QB (hard to believe a team that historically had maybe one feature pass rusher now has 3 quality DEs), and multiple options a LB to create havoc (with two physically gifted freaks Collins/Hightower).

3) In the box safety depth that will be needed given what I perceive to be a defense that will rely on flooding the secondary with an extra DB to compensate for their lack of a Revis type solo artist. I get the Richards pick. Chung will get hurt (his health last year was an outlier IMO) and BB wants a safety that can pick up the system fast, one who can direct the secondary on the field. I fully expect the team to be in dime defense more than ever given NE's ability to score lots of points and the fact that opponents will perceive NE's secondary as a liability and therefore attack this liability. To counter this perceived tactic, BB has decided to boost the pass rush and create not necessarily the most talented secondary but the best organized secondary. Given how quickly BB snapped up Richards, it seems logical to conclude BB strongly believes a Richards type cerebral Safety is vital.

The NE defense will be scheming more than in the past IMO in order to counteract the CB deficiencies. Time will tell....but I can envision an attacking defense coming from all directions....and ....unlike last year, I fully expect the offense to hit the ground running (actually... hit the air throwing). Unlike last September when Brady lacked his Gronk and lacked comfort with his new WR, Brady has the gang back (except Vereen) and his OL will be healthier and hopefully more in sync.

The Pats are gonna Kill Pittsburgh.

Gronkowski123 said:

worked out as a tight end.


lol seriously bill..

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Think about it.

Why would BB work out an edge defender at TE?

Why did BB work out Seymour as a LT?

Why did Julian Edelman play some CB and safety in 2009 training camp?

robertweathers said:

Think about it.

Why would BB work out an edge defender at TE?

Why did BB work out Seymour as a LT?

Why did Julian Edelman play some CB and safety in 2009 training camp?

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ANSWER: seeing how draft prospect can put themselves in the shoes of a defender/opposing offense?

Chiuba E. Obele said:

ANSWER: seeing how draft prospect can put themselves in the shoes of a defender/opposing offense?

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Bingo

BB did not work out Grissom b/c he projected him a TE. He also worked him out to see if he had the pre-requisite physical, mental ability and technique to cover the position at an acceptable standard.

scott99 said:

We all talk about BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE, there is no way in hell, Richards was the best player available at pick #64, no way.

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Imagine a science experiment that requires a certain purity of a certain chemical to be successful. Let's say that purity isn't available, but the person doing the experiment decides to proceed anyway with "the best available on the market" at the time. The experiment fails.

If the coaching staff doesn't see a player as having a high probability of making a difference that will lead to another championship, they won't draft him. So, they take some shots with unusual players that they see as having high ceilings, even if the odds are lower than "the best available" making the bottom of the roster.

I trust this guy...enuff said

A few points,

The Pats have one of the youngest rosters in the league.

The Pats have one of the deepest rosters in the league.

BB uses all sources of talent more than most other teams.

EVERY TEAM MISSES ON NUMEROUS PICKS.

The Patriots DON"T subscribe to the Scouting pools, they rely on their own scouting
and base evaluations on criteria on how players will fit BB PHILOSOPHY. They also
seek to project how a player will develop, IOW can they create a role for themselves
on the Patriots, not some abstract notion of who the good players are and aren't.

As a result the Pats board is stacked differently than Kiper, other NFL teams and the boards
of the legion of arm chair gm's including the whiners that show up on this board.

Malcolm Butler and UDFA may in hindsight look like a guy who was a first round 'talent'.
Drafting talent in this sport of attrition is no a really scientific endeavor.

scott99 said:

Actually, he has. Look at his secondary in the last 3 SB WINS, Harrison, Revis and Browner were all Free Agents. Most of the offensive linemen were Free Agents. Smith, Dillon and Blount were not Belichick draft choices. Vrabel, Ninkovich, I can go on and on. Sure there has been some GREAT picks in Brady and Gronk, but the results are VERY mixed. Lots of bombs. If you look at the players that missed big time, and the guys BB passed up that were picked shortly after, it's a main reason we lost Super Bowls. And yesterday repeated history.

I will NEVER discredit BB as a COACH. He's the GOAT, but as a drafter, he's truly a river boat gambler who has missed more than he's hit the last 10 years.

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How does this compare to other teams? You seem to think at least half of draft picks need to be hit to be successful so how many other teams have hit that mark over the past 15 years? Can you tell how we rank in terms of successful picks vs. other teams? Are we the absolute worst? In the middle? Top 10? No clue what you're talking about?

And I love how you talk about these failures leading to our Super Bowl losses, somehow overlooking the fact that NOBODY has won as many Super Bowls since BB took over. Yes, we lost 2. We also won 4. Nobody has been to more than 3 in that time.

The Packers are considered one of the best teams in the draft and they've only won 1 SB since BB started, never been to another. The Ravens and Giants have both been to 2 and won both. The Steelers have won 2 in 3. These are the GOOD teams. You want to cry about losing 2 SBs while overlooking the fact we've won twice as many as anyone else and been to twice as many as anyone else.

Would you rather be the Jets? They haven't lost a single Super Bowl in the past 15 years. Neither have the Bills.

You can't lose the Super Bowl without having a pretty damn good team. And you can't really say you know more than the coach who has won twice as many championships as anyone else over the past 15 years.

CopenhagenPatsfan said:

This coming from someone who does not work in professional football, but you have it all figured out.

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Sorry but that dog doesn't hunt, one doesn't need to work in a field to understand basic concepts about how something works. Also, it's not uncommon at all that an "expert" can get lost in details and also overlook some pretty obvious things.

Finally, many institutions tend to select people that share their general outlook resulting in institutional group-think, so you shouldn't be surprised if people who think outside the box aren't brought into established organizations.

A few things get Belichick aroused come draft time - special teams gunners, guys who play multiple positions, and scarlet knights....

Nobody cares who any of us would pick. None of us are going to the football HOF. Richards apparently has intelligence and football instincts that might make him a plug in starting safety. Although he is more of an adequate than workout warrior athlete, his actual play and production might be better than everyone else thinks. He could be the smartest (highest SAT score) player on the team.

The irony is that, academically, there are many above average SAT scorers who through sheer effort and determination match and exceed more gifted test takers. Going to the combine is the athletic equivalent of taking the SAT. The Patriots have at least once in their past turned a 6th round less than perfect athletic specimen into the GOAT at his position.

Second guessing fans would have howled if 6th round Tom Brady had been picked in the second round. He was certainly no Drew Bledsoe. Brady would have been lucky to develop into a journeyman QB backup if fan opinions then mattered at all. Larry Bird was the basketball genius equivalent of this. His skill and determination exceeded his raw athletic gifts.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Richards will be their greatest ever draft pick. Malcom Brown is destined for this honor. Nevertheless, just like the SAT challenged college "overachiever", I am willing to suspend my disbelief to accept that the proven best GM in the NFL (probably the GOAT GM/Coach combo in a single person) knows a lot more than me. BB can certainly recognize a Brady type football genius with a strong potential to overachieve and exceed expectations that are often too dependent on the SAT type test results from Combines and Pro Days. If you have confidence in your judgment, it's never a reach to pluck someone where you see them as truly second round valued though other pundits believe that a seriously underrated player you covet is only a 6th round talent.

Grissom is more acceptable to fans simply because of his athleticism. Raw players with his versatility are allowed to play both on special teams and as plug-in backups wherever they are needed.

I am the same age as BB and my D III college actually played Wesleyan (where Bill played) for our same 4 years of college. Hockey fans will figure out the tiny college I attended when I mention that my "David" alma mater slew a series of Goliaths on its way to the most improbable DI championship ever in 2014. Small colleges can produce some big time sleeper talent. Marpet was a big early gamble where he was picked. Smart D II or D III players might be worth Day 3 gambles. Here is my binky for the WR everyone covets:

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/03/patriots_2015_nfl_draft_sleepe.html

Is he a 4th round reach or will he still be out there for the Pats immovable final 7th round compensation pick? Late round sleepers and players who the pundits and fans slam as Day 2 reaches are the most interesting picks for me. It's so much more rewarding when BB's genius doesn't let someone like Collins or Gronk get away on Day 2 and finds those Edelman gems on Day 3. Like any GM, he whiffs on some of his choices. However, the Patriots are a dynasty that spoiled everyone. More important than what someone's Draft Guide says is whether BB gets his man where he wants him.

22 years ago a smart S from Stanford with a questionable scouting report was drafted in round 3. John Lynch.

robertweathers said:

Why did Julian Edelman play some CB and safety in 2009 training camp?

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To be fair, in that case, I'm not sure that the Patriots knew what Edelman would actually be best at. WR was a guess, but he really didn't have a position coming out of college. If the NFL allowed teams to declare players as ATH or ST, that's what they would have done.