The value of Shane Vereen/Stevan Ridley

Dragda said:

The big problem with Woodhead was he got run over in pass protection. He was always in the right spot, but just wasn't big enough to block a LB with a head of steam.

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I agree.

rochrist said:

I just pointed out that his percentage of catches vs. tgts is right in line with every other pass catcher on the team.

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Yeah, the "Vereen drops everything" commentary has bizarrely gotten out of hand despite not having a lick of evidence to back it up.

Oswlek said:

I still think the team - perhaps because they have better alternatives, I'm not chastising the coaching - is under utilizing Vereen's receiver skill set.

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Thats pretty much it. LaFell, Wright, healthy Gronk all are reasons why Vereen's #s are down and TB will most likely have the same number of completions...

Still catching 55 balls in this offense is pretty damn good.

robertweathers said:

Thats pretty much it. LaFell, Wright, healthy Gronk all are reasons why Vereen's #s are down and TB will most likely have the same number of completions...

Still catching 55 balls in this offense is pretty damn good.

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Again, it's not about numbers, it's about specific plays and role. Even when Shane has a play call designed for him, it feels like it puts him in unnecessarily difficult situations. I have little to support this other than gut, so feel free to ignore.

Oswlek said:

Again, it's not about numbers, it's about specific plays and role. Even when Shane has a play call designed for him, it feels like it puts him in unnecessarily difficult situations. I have little to support this other than gut, so feel free to ignore.

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I hear you . I'm using the numbers as a high-level barometer for his overall performance. My feeling is that his % of touches/total plays is down this year because the Pats have more down field threats than last year- thus making Vereen's 5/10 yard up n outs not as appealing b/c you have the other threats in the passing game this year that weren't in the lineup last year.

Overall, Vereen has been just fine in my book.

AWTE chimes in on Shane:

I thought Vereen left a lot of yards on the field today. He had options he just wasn't able to see and react to. Blount is good but his plodding style takes him longer to get to and through holes that develop and close quickly.

Personally I'd like to see Gray and Blount split base carries while Vereen be moved around more as a spread back like they did with him last year. Vereen has been under utilized IMO. And he appears to have regressed in the run game. He ran a draw today where there was a solid 8-10 yard gain off a quick skate to his left but instead he dropped his head and burrowed up his lineman's ass for no gain then got up shaking his head realizing he missed an opportunity. They need to find other ways to get him involved.

rochrist said:

I just pointed out that his percentage of catches vs. tgts is right in line with every other pass catcher on the team.

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Is that taking into account all targets, including poorly thrown balls?

Or just drops vs catchable balls?

I don't have access or the time to go back and pick out all of the games he's dropped an easy pass that would have gone for a touchdown or wise I'd setup a lowlight reel.

chasa said:

Is that taking into account all targets, including poorly thrown balls?

Or just drops vs catchable balls?

I don't have access or the time to go back and pick out all of the games he's dropped an easy pass that would have gone for a touchdown or wise I'd setup a lowlight reel.

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it's a large enough data set where it's balls thrown by the same QB.......

Vereen's percentages are lowered by the fact that he goes on many more long routes than any other RB we've had here

chasa said:

Is that taking into account all targets, including poorly thrown balls?

Or just drops vs catchable balls?

I don't have access or the time to go back and pick out all of the games he's dropped an easy pass that would have gone for a touchdown or wise I'd setup a lowlight reel.

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Unfortunately, you're going to need to provide more information since absolutely nothing else supports your contention. The only recent pass I've seen Shane "drop" was in GB when the LB tipped it. I've also seen him bail out Tom on what was damn near a game losing overthrow in the Jet game when no one was within 15 yards.

If you want to make a case, go for it, but just stating it as fact isn't enough

chasa said:

Is that taking into account all targets, including poorly thrown balls?

Or just drops vs catchable balls?

I don't have access or the time to go back and pick out all of the games he's dropped an easy pass that would have gone for a touchdown or wise I'd setup a lowlight reel.

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It catches vs. targets.

rochrist said:

I just pointed out that his percentage of catches vs. tgts is right in line with every other pass catcher on the team.

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Sure, but Vereen gets a lot of the easier targets. Edelman/Gronk/Lafell are catching significantly harder balls at the same rate as Vereen. Vereen has dropped plenty of passes this year (less than 10 yds) when he didn't have a defender near him. I'll give Vereen a pass on those awful wheel routes he's asked to do sometimes, that's just putting him in a low % situation to catch it.

I think Vereen is a good player and an asset to the team but he's forced into the offense too much. I'm not sure why the Pats insist on running him inside, he's good for a yard or 2 every time but he rarely gets more than that. He just doesn't seem to be an effective runner. He's an OK pass catcher, but I think you could upgrade at his position. Hopefully White can fill Vereen's shoes next year.

SyN65 said:

Sure, but Vereen gets a lot of the easier targets.

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Negligible impact considering how often Brady overthrows him on a 30 yard wheel route. That happens probably 5 times for every Shane drop.

FWIW, footballoutsiders has Vereen's catch rate at 69%. I'm still waiting for legitimate evidence that the kid drops an egregious amount of passes.