Typical Josh McDaniels

JoeSixPat · Sep 9, 2014

At this stage in Brady's career I'm never quite sure whether to blame Brady or McDaniels on playcalling

Early in this game Brady was spreading the field, and on one drive used 6 different receivers for 9 completions

Later, as the pressure on the OL and Brady mounted, it seemed like Brady was opting for mainly Edelman/Gronk supplemented by very short pass plays to a limited number of other receiving options

i.e. teams know that if they pressure Brady he'll forget about spreading the field and opt for just one or two players

That's when things became less productive. Now, was that McDaniels playcalling or does Brady have the authority to call his own plays and pick his WRs.

My guess is Brady has the authority to do as he pleases and that can foster predictability when under fire

Ring 6 · Sep 9, 2014

Armchair Quarterback said:
Of course when Ridley was in the game, they knew it was a run. 8 carries in 22 plays vs Vereen 7 carries in 61 plays. And you can't judge a running game by 8 sporadic runs.

How did they know it was a run when Ridley was in the game if we ran it 8 of 22 times?
Explain please.

The Brandon Five · Sep 9, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
If you are calling for lining up and running the ball on first down, which I think you are, using stats that are skewed by 'gimmick' runs doesn't make a great argument. The 20-89 rushing sounds good, except with you consider 4 of them (20% of the runs) were reverses to Edelman or 3 and long runs (Vereen and Bolden) that amount to 40 of the 89 yards.
If we are saying they should have tried to run the ball right at them the other 20 carries for 49 yards is more pertinent.

Why run it on first down when you can wait for 3rd and 29?

Too soon?

Ring 6 · Sep 9, 2014

JMC00 said:
Well first I would decide on 5 guys and go with them and let them try to get some cohesion instead of this rotating stuff.

Hell put Stork out there and have Connolly and Cannon as the guards and use Fleming as an extra TE at points so you get him reps.

There wasn't really rotation. Wendell replaced Devey for 22 snaps. Otherwise it was the same 5 all along.

Ring 6 · Sep 9, 2014

The Brandon Five said:
Why run it on first down when you can wait for 3rd and 29?

Too soon?

Do you have something intelligent to add?

Christiancat · Sep 9, 2014

Sure Mr. McDaniels made some bad play calls in certain games and most recently in the game against Miami. Yes, he needs to correct things and make better play calls and not let these kind of things happen as often as they do. However, I am optimistic that Mr. McDaniels will learn from his mistakes/blunders and improve despite how stubborn he can be at times. Nevertheless, I like Mr. McDaniels and wish him well.

shmessy · Sep 9, 2014

Christiancat said:
Sure Mr. McDaniels made some bad play calls in certain games and most recently in the game against Miami. Yes, he needs to correct things and make better play calls and not let these kind of things happen as often as they do. However, I am optimistic that Mr. McDaniels will learn from his mistakes/blunders and improve despite how stubborn he can be at times. Nevertheless, I like Mr. McDaniels and wish him well.

No one is saying he is not a very nice young man.

supafly · Sep 10, 2014

Although there have been many references to the "40 pass attempts" rule with Tom Brady and the difference in his success, I couldn't find any of the recent articles in the past year or two which show his records above and below (much better) 39 attempts.

I did however, find this stat, and although it's 5 yrs old it still shows the extremely low rate of success that stems from that many pass attempts :

"In the entire history of the NFL, quarterbacks who attempt 50-plus passes are a pathetic 73-260-6 (.224) in the regular season and 4-22 (.154) in the playoffs."---Courtesy of Cold, hard, football facts

NOTE: Looks like since the article was from 2009 it's so old that the link no longer works. I think it tells us a lot of what we already know though, in the sense that generally we're going to have a much lessened rate of winning when throwing that many times.

If anyone can find Brady's record when throwing 40+ times vs less than 40 times, please post it. We've discussed it many times over the years.

supafly · Sep 10, 2014

supafly said:
Although there have been many references to the "40 pass attempts" rule with Tom Brady and the difference in his success, I couldn't find any of the recent articles in the past year or two which show his records above and below (much better) 39 attempts.

I did however, find this stat, and although it's 5 yrs old it still shows the extremely low rate of success that stems from that many pass attempts :

"In the entire history of the NFL, quarterbacks who attempt 50-plus passes are a pathetic 73-260-6 (.224) in the regular season and 4-22 (.154) in the playoffs."---Courtesy of Cold, hard, football facts

NOTE: Looks like since the article was from 2009 it's so old that the link no longer works. I think it tells us a lot of what we already know though, in the sense that generally we're going to have a much lessened rate of winning when throwing that many times.

If anyone can find Brady's record when throwing 40+ times vs less than 40 times, please post it. We've discussed it many times over the years.

Here we go, I found the article that states Brady's differences in throwing 40+ times:

Basically (through last season) :

1) In Brady's 25 INTs since 2011, 80% of them have come in situations where he's thrown 40 or more attempts.

2) The scoring is down dramatically in games where Brady throws for 40+ attempts. It is 26.9 in those games, compared to 34.3 in games where he doesn't throw for 40+ times.

3) The record is dramatically different, whereas Brady is 9-7 in games where he throws for 40+ times. In comparison when he does not throw for 40+ times, the record is 21-2.

Obviously, we need to be able to run the ball more effectively, although I do think that the defensive collapse had more to do in certain games like Sunday + the loss out in SEA where Brady had a ton of pass attempts. In certain situations the gameplan is going to dictate throwing more and getting a lead, as it did on Sunday.

Tom Brady's Magic Number Is 40, And Patriots Are Better If He Avoids It | NESN.com

TheBostonStraggler · Sep 10, 2014

JMC00 said:
5 series in the 2nd half where it was either the Pats were up, tie game, or the Dolphins up by one score and there were 3 rush attempts and 3 screen attempts.

Can you at least try to establish that you have two good RBs. One that if you feed him the ball 20 times a game instead of the 8, is gonna give you some solid 1st down runs.

Guy was treating the game like the backup Miami LBs were the 2000 Ravens or something.

Just very typical of him when it's a close game to be calling plays like the Pats are down 20 points.

(1) A defense uses a 4 man rush to frequently pressure the QB. (2) multiple defenders are frequently waiting at the LOS to meet any rushing attempt.
Given those two unfortunate realities of the second half the options for JM were very few and very far between.
As AndyJ alluded to in an earlier post, play calling is about exploiting a mismatch, hitting a team's weakness, circumventing their scheme, going to an area that has a high probability of production. In the second half what weakness were the Phins showing that could be exploited? What area was providing a high probability of production for the Patriots? Due to our OL getting dominated I just don't see good answers to those questions.
Maybe the hurry up/no huddle/quick passing mode would have put the Patriots in some sort of rhythm while putting the Phins back on their heels a little?? But even that probably was not a good idea given the sad state of the OL play as well as the Florida weather.

shmessy · Sep 10, 2014

Thank you Christopher Price:

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/f...09/09/balancing-act-recent-losses-have-seen-p

Balancing act: Recent losses have seen Pats run away from successful second-half formula

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

supafly said:
Although there have been many references to the "40 pass attempts" rule with Tom Brady and the difference in his success, I couldn't find any of the recent articles in the past year or two which show his records above and below (much better) 39 attempts.

I did however, find this stat, and although it's 5 yrs old it still shows the extremely low rate of success that stems from that many pass attempts :

"In the entire history of the NFL, quarterbacks who attempt 50-plus passes are a pathetic 73-260-6 (.224) in the regular season and 4-22 (.154) in the playoffs."---Courtesy of Cold, hard, football facts

NOTE: Looks like since the article was from 2009 it's so old that the link no longer works. I think it tells us a lot of what we already know though, in the sense that generally we're going to have a much lessened rate of winning when throwing that many times.

If anyone can find Brady's record when throwing 40+ times vs less than 40 times, please post it. We've discussed it many times over the years.

There was a stat at one point, which I'm sure I will never find, but Brady was far, far, far and away the biggest winning % in NFL history throwing 50+ times. It was something like 10% average and Brady was 55%.

ATippett56 · Sep 10, 2014

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/10/wednesday-morning-one-liners-275/

Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels suggested that he needs to call a more balanced game and not call as many passes as he did on Sunday.

JMC00 · Sep 10, 2014

ATippett56 said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/10/wednesday-morning-one-liners-275/

Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels suggested that he needs to call a more balanced game and not call as many passes as he did on Sunday.

Click to expand...

Let's see the people that were spinning it that McDaniels did the right thing by abandoning the run and going pass heavy try to spin this.

ATippett56 · Sep 10, 2014

JMC00 said:
Let's see the people that were spinning it that McDaniels did the right thing but abandoning the run and going pass heavy try to spin this.

The OC has spoken. End of conversation. Run the damn football.

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
There was a stat at one point, which I'm sure I will never find, but Brady was far, far, far and away the biggest winning % in NFL history throwing 50+ times. It was something like 10% average and Brady was 55%.

Looked it up on profootballreference.
Could have miscounted by a little on the totals, but
Brady 8-6
Every other QB in NFL history 93-345-6

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

JMC00 said:
Let's see the people that were spinning it that McDaniels did the right thing but abandoning the run and going pass heavy try to spin this.

I dont think anyone said it is a good idea to abandon the run and throw every down. You should read the article that the 'one liner' came from though, as he, and Brady describe some of the reasons they were forced into being one-dimensional.

JMarr · Sep 10, 2014

Amendola could turn out to be the worst FA signing in Patiots history, and he was Josh's boy.

It sure was nice of Bill to take Skippy back on after he failed spectacularly in Denver and St. Louis, but he should cut loses and move on from McD before the season gets away.

JMC00 · Sep 10, 2014

JMarr said:
Amendola could turn out to be the worst FA signing in Patiots history, and he was Josh's boy.

Not even close.

Adalius Thomas is the reason why BB still hasn't given a Free Agent defender a top market long term deal

Then there was Shaun Ellis who BB paid $5-6m for a season based on what he did in a playoff game against the Pats.

ATippett56 · Sep 10, 2014

JMarr said:
Amendola could turn out to be the worst FA signing in Patiots history, and he was Josh's boy.

It sure was nice of Bill to take Skippy back on after he failed spectacularly in Denver and St. Louis, but he should cut loses and move on from McD before the season gets away.

Try again.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5136454

Thomas was the highest-priced free-agent acquisition in team history, signing a five-year, $35 million contract in 2007, but he turned out to be one of the biggest personnel missteps in Bill Belichick's 11-year tenure.

Typical Josh McDaniels

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