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Week 1 Defensive Snap Counts


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The way we are playing the 34 is pretty much the same way we play the 43.
All this griping about Jones being a 34 DE is pointless, because his job is exactly the same whether its a 34 or 43. This is not the 2gap 34 circa 2003.
The difference is that we shift the DTs to over the C and T instead of the Gs, and move the LBs accordingly.
The problem is that the our 34 leaves huge gaps to run between our DL. It also puts our DL in positions they aren't really fit for. Like Easley at 5tech, or closer to the ball instead of outside the tackle like he lines up in our 43. Even if we use the players to one gap we still use them in places they aren't that good in.
 
The problem is that the our 34 leaves huge gaps to run between our DL. It also puts our DL in positions they aren't really fit for. Like Easley at 5tech, or closer to the ball instead of outside the tackle like he lines up in our 43. Even if we use the players to one gap we still use them in places they aren't that good in.
I get the theory, but its still 7 guys basically lined up in the same spots, and the difference is who a LB is over and who a DL is over. The run fits are all the same, the personell are the same, its just different guys in different areas.
Honestly playing the DT wider and the LB closer to the ball (and Wilfork) should help the run D not hurt it.
 
can someone tell me how can a LB play ever snap in a game were the other team rushes for 200 yards and only have one not full tackle but one assisted. if playing the 4-3 means Hightower has to come off the field then so be it cause he is a average player IMO anyways
 
I get the theory, but its still 7 guys basically lined up in the same spots, and the difference is who a LB is over and who a DL is over. The run fits are all the same, the personell are the same, its just different guys in different areas.
Honestly playing the DT wider and the LB closer to the ball (and Wilfork) should help the run D not hurt it.
What do you mean by "but its still 7 guys basically lined up in the same spots" and "its just different guys in different areas", isn't that a sort of a contradiction?
 
Moreno was hit in the backfield on his TD run in the 4th quarter...he broke that tackle...he was hit again, and then again...and then he was gang hit at the goal line...and STILL got in the EZ. THAT is a classic example of a fatigued defense. He was stronger, the Dolphins were stronger...fresher. That's a decided home field advantage. I didn't like ANYTHING I saw from that defense in the 2nd half yesterday. I didn't like some things in the first half like that covergae that had Nink on a RB inside the 5...that was a candy TD. I do not agree, nor have I for a few seasons now, with this lack of in game blitzing. It LOOKS like it's the same vanilla BDB scheme they ran last season and the season before that and the season before that.

Fortunately, for us fans, there's another game next weekend and another chance to see if yesterday was just a baseline. If Patricia is going to keep calling the same scary Mary defensive sets, this team better ramp up the O line blocking and fast because the Pats will have to win with offense AGAIN this year.
 
What do you mean by "but its still 7 guys basically lined up in the same spots" and "its just different guys in different areas", isn't that a sort of a contradiction?
I can see how that wording is confusing.
We have EITHER a DL or LB lined up in each same basic spot in either defense.
Essentially to go from 3-4 to 4-3 you shift the DL one way and the LBs the other.

They are the same 7 players, with the same responsiblities, they just align a little differently.
I don't think whether the DTs are over the Gs or the C and T with the LBs shifting accordingly makes any difference.
 
Moreno was hit in the backfield on his TD run in the 4th quarter...he broke that tackle...he was hit again, and then again...and then he was gang hit at the goal line...and STILL got in the EZ. THAT is a classic example of a fatigued defense. He was stronger, the Dolphins were stronger...fresher. That's a decided home field advantage. I didn't like ANYTHING I saw from that defense in the 2nd half yesterday. I didn't like some things in the first half like that covergae that had Nink on a RB inside the 5...that was a candy TD. I do not agree, nor have I for a few seasons now, with this lack of in game blitzing. It LOOKS like it's the same vanilla BDB scheme they ran last season and the season before that and the season before that.

Fortunately, for us fans, there's another game next weekend and another chance to see if yesterday was just a baseline. If Patricia is going to keep calling the same scary Mary defensive sets, this team better ramp up the O line blocking and fast because the Pats will have to win with offense AGAIN this year.

We should all know by now that the defense is a gameplan based system. Its not going to look the same against every opponent. We played a ton of aggressive man last year and the personnel says we should do even more this year, but you can't expect the same scheme every week. I don't think the defensive game plan yesterday gives any indication of what the defensive game plans will be against other teams.
 
The way we are playing the 34 is pretty much the same way we play the 43.
All this griping about Jones being a 34 DE is pointless, because his job is exactly the same whether its a 34 or 43. This is not the 2gap 34 circa 2003.
The difference is that we shift the DTs to over the C and T instead of the Gs, and move the LBs accordingly.
Wait, are you saying there's no difference between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DE?
 
Wait, are you saying there's no difference between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DE?
I'm saying that in our defense Chandler Jones is playing exactly the same position in a 34 that he plays in a 43.
 
I can see how that wording is confusing.
We have EITHER a DL or LB lined up in each same basic spot in either defense.
Essentially to go from 3-4 to 4-3 you shift the DL one way and the LBs the other.

They are the same 7 players, with the same responsiblities, they just align a little differently.
I don't think whether the DTs are over the Gs or the C and T with the LBs shifting accordingly makes any difference.
It absolutely makes a difference where you line up a defensive lineman. Look at Easley who they lined up over the tackle. He is quick of the ball, but he isn't fast. Or Jones on the inside or right over the tackle instead of lining up a bit outside the tackle. It also allows the offense to double team him with the guard in more cases than with the 4-3.

Where you line up a defensive lineman makes a huge difference.
 
I expect wrinkles to be implemented as we go forward Andy...I expected it the last few seasons too but injuries and lack of back end talent seemed to preclude that. I just get the sense that Patricia is going to be extremely slow to attack when IMO we should be attacking from the start. We'll see where this goes..
 
It absolutely makes a difference where you line up a defensive lineman. Look at Easley who they lined up over the tackle. He is quick of the ball, but he isn't fast. Or Jones on the inside or right over the tackle instead of lining up a bit outside the tackle. It also allows the offense to double team him with the guard in more cases than with the 4-3.

Where you line up a defensive lineman makes a huge difference.
The discussion was about run fits. If you have the same 7 players on the field, lining up as a 34 or 43 is not going to make you weaker vs the run.
 
The discussion was about run fits. If you have the same 7 players on the field, lining up as a 34 or 43 is not going to make you weaker vs the run.
There absolutely is a difference between 43/34 vs the run. Right now we had a bunch of plays with ends wide and a nose over the center. That meant that the guards had a straight path to the LB. Sure the LB has the hole a 3-tech dt usually have, so same thing there. But the LB is several yards back. Plus players being used where they aren't a good fit. If you don't have a monster nose, I do not believe we have one at the moment, then you will be blown off vs the run in a 34, just as we where. Vs the 43 where you have another DT that can instantly take on a block and 2 ends to push the play in and hold the tackles.

How can you seriously claim that there is no difference where someone lines up and what formation is used? The 3-4 we used yesterday looked like the 43 from last year in very few cases. Sure the difference is small if you run your 34 like a 43 elephant. But that's not what did most of the time.
 
There absolutely is a difference between 43/34 vs the run. Right now we had a bunch of plays with ends wide and a nose over the center. That meant that the guards had a straight path to the LB. Sure the LB has the hole a 3-tech dt usually have, so same thing there. But the LB is several yards back. Plus players being used where they aren't a good fit. If you don't have a monster nose, I do not believe we have one at the moment, then you will be blown off vs the run in a 34, just as we where. Vs the 43 where you have another DT that can instantly take on a block and 2 ends to push the play in and hold the tackles.

How can you seriously claim that there is no difference where someone lines up and what formation is used? The 3-4 we used yesterday looked like the 43 from last year in very few cases. Sure the difference is small if you run your 34 like a 43 elephant. But that's not what did most of the time.
If we lined up in a 43 and moved the DTs over a man, and put the OLB in a 3 point stance, we would not have done better vs the run.
I guess we will just have to disagree.
 
Hightower 74, Ninkovich 35, Vellano 32, Easley 27

DEFENSIVE TACKLE
I've come to terms with Easley not being quite ready, and Vellano getting a lot of reps with Chris Jones out. This can resolve itself with a bit of health.

DE/LB
Will someone explain how it makes ANY sense for Hightower to be play ALL the reps, and for Ninkovich to be on the bench? Is the reason really because Ninkovich had to play the special teams DE/OLB role with Buchanan out? If so, one would think that we should activated LB Davis to play special teams. Apparently we valued Jones as a gunner more.
 
It's probably the same reason they started Vellano and used Jones at 3-4 DE.
 
It's probably the same reason they started Vellano and used Jones at 3-4 DE.
Easley was judged not quite ready to start. Chris Jones was out. Siliga has one role, WIlfork's backup. Vellano was the next man up.
 
I thought those were Madden 15 ratings and I was like :eek:
 
I thought I saw Nink favoring his shoulder after a late game tackle.
 
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