Pats Claim DTs Quarles & Gaston (Update: Both Released)

RayClay said:

Three "other players" played almost none, or none of the preseason.

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That doesn't mean they won't be ready and weren't ahead of him. His issues moved him down even if some of the other players were not moving up did to being out with injuries.
Siliga jones and vellano all established a level of ability last year and Easley is going to be on the field. Where is the room for tommy Kelly in that group?
Silica and jones are back so obviously their timetable went into the decision.

maybe letting kelly go was the right call.......but if it comes back to bite us, im gonna be disappointed in BB

RayClay said:

Because Wilfork also ages. When he retires, they will have to replace him and likely won't have a top draft pick. Also, not to be ajinx, but Easley has played zero.

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I'm missing what that had to do with tommy Kelly not being one of the best DTs on the team and therefore being cut

AndyJohnson said:

That doesn't mean they won't be ready and weren't ahead of him. His issues moved him down even if some of the other players were not moving up did to being out with injuries.
Siliga jones and vellano all established a level of ability last year and Easley is going to be on the field. Where is the room for tommy Kelly in that group?
Silica and jones are back so obviously their timetable went into the decision.

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That doesn't mean there was anything to judge them on either.

I made a logical surmise based on the fact that BB plans ahead and we will need to develop linemen without the benefit of a high pick. Furthermore, the injured Kelly was picked up in two days.

Did you watch Kelly all summer in practice and your opinion is he's still too injured? I'm from out of state,. so I couldn't.

Siliga jones and vellano all established a level of ability last year and Easley is going to be on the field. Where is the room for tommy Kelly in that group?
Silica and jones are back so obviously their timetable went into the decision.

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So now you're making my argument? Yes, they are young and apparently all will be healthy. There is no room for a 33 year old, given that we need to develop young linemen for the future.

AndyJohnson said:

I'm missing what that had to do with tommy Kelly not being one of the best DTs on the team and therefore being cut

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Was Logan Mankins one of the best offensive linemen this year? Conversely, was Jake Bequette one of the best defensive ends the last two years?

james87654 said:

maybe letting kelly go was the right call.......but if it comes back to bite us, im gonna be disappointed in BB

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If we kept every veteran player posters thought we couldn't do without, we'd have a team of hobbling 40 year olds. If the young DL are to improve, they have to play. If they don't improve, we'll have a DL that falls apart minus Wilfork. He's not going to play forever and Easley is yet to play and stay healthy.

VrabelJr said:

Defense is more tiring to play because offenses dictate the game. Defenses have to react.

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Tell that to the Seahawks Defense! They dictated to the offense and Dominated the Superbowl!

As far as Quarles. I was intrigued when we picked him up, but oops he's cut now. BB is not afraid to shuffle the parts. Hopefully we get the best team on the field. That's what matters. PS do we still have a long snapper? I thought Aiken got cut?

VJCPatriot said:

PS do we still have a long snapper? I thought Aiken got cut?

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Reiss reports that the Patriots are "strongly considering" re-signing Danny Aiken.

(Cut Aiken to keep Mallett. When the Mallett trade goes down, use the slots for try-outs. When game day gets near, sign a long snapper. Works for me.)

mayoclinic said:

Dominique Easley apparently not on the injury report, per Doug Kyed:

https://twitter.com/DougKyedNESN/status/507280351547625474

Good news. I'd love to see what he can do against Miami's soft interior OL, sans Mike Pouncey.

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Put Wilfork on the center in rushing situations and Easley on him in pass situations and see how they handle that.

RayClay said:

Was Logan Mankins one of the best offensive linemen this year? Conversely, was Jake Bequette one of the best defensive ends the last two years?

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Did tommy Kelly make 10 million? Was he a third round pick in his first 2 seasons.
We can go back and forth but isn't the unarguable point that bb did what's best for the football team? If Kelly were where he was a year ago he would be on the team.

supafly said:

I would bet anything that Kelly was unhappy with the fact that Belichick was "taking him out" due to Kelly's inference of "having a situation with my deal," and "talking to his (my) agent."

In other words, there was likely a clause in his pact when he restructured in the spring that probably allowed for him to collect more money if he played a certain amount of snaps etc.

Why else would he ask to be released while pointing to his contract, agent, and the fact that they were taking him out after starting him? It sounds like he was suggesting that Belichick was purposely preventing him from reaching incentives, etc.

I think if you go back and re-read the article that you posted, you'll see it pretty clearly.

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That's what I saw as well. Not sure how it could be read any other way.

AndyJohnson said:

But that's the point actually. If we play 34 it will be with our 43 personnel. One of the DEs will stand up and be called an Olb but will do the same job he would do as a 43 DE. The other will play DE just as he would in a 43.
In other words whether you call it 34 or 43 the personnel will be the same and jones and nink will do the same thing whether they are in 34 or 43 or standing up it what you call them. This is not the 2 gap 34 of 5 to 10 years ago. The 2 DTs and 3 LBs would have slightly different alignment and responsibilities is 34 vs 43 but just slightly.

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Interesting....something I'll definitely be looking for. So as much as I agree with you regarding seeing Chandler, Rob, Jerod, Jamie and Dante on the field as much as possible, I also see a matchup problem when Miami goes with 3 WR. I suspect we'll see plenty of rotation at DT due to the heat with Vince still getting the most reps. Who do you see getting the second most reps at DT?

SacPete1 said:

I also see a matchup problem when Miami goes with 3 WR. ?

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In the past, the team operated out of the nickel and dime ~70% of the time. Historically, where they have been burned is coverage by the CB and in the middle of the field via the TE. To me, it's been a gradual improvement..

2011- McCourty goes to FS to cover the deep ball and Arrington covers the slot. The pass rush is better.
2012- Talib gives them a good cover corner. Dennard is added to the mix. The pass rush improves.
2013- McCourty, Dennard, Talib are a good combo. Ryan and Harmon are added. The pass rush is ok but still not potent. Collins brings speed and coverage abilities to the middle of the field and on the TE.
2014- Add Revis (which is an upgrade over Talib) and Browner to cover the larger receivers (with Collins)in the mid-level passing game.

By the middle of the season, with Browner, the second year players really getting it and the other newcomers getting more and more comfortable in the system, this will be a top 5 defense. I am convinced of this. Way too much talent on the field and in the coaching staff to be porous ala 2010.

There may be match problems here and there but I feel that the Pats finally have the cover guys to at least be competitive.

robertweathers said:

In the past, the team operated out of the nickel and dime ~70% of the time. Historically, where they have been burned is coverage by the CB and in the middle of the field via the TE. To me, it's been a gradual improvement..

2011- McCourty goes to FS to cover the deep ball and Arrington covers the slot. The pass rush is better.
2012- Talib gives them a good cover corner. Dennard is added to the mix. The pass rush improves.
2013- McCourty, Dennard, Talib are a good combo. Ryan and Harmon are added. The pass rush is ok but still not potent. Collins brings speed and coverage abilities to the middle of the field and on the TE.
2014- Add Revis (which is an upgrade over Talib) and Browner to cover the larger receivers (with Collins)in the mid-level passing game.

By the middle of the season, with Browner, the second year players really getting it and the other newcomers getting more and more comfortable in the system, this will be a top 5 defense. I am convinced of this. Way too much talent on the field and in the coaching staff to be porous ala 2010.

There may be match problems here and there but I feel that the Pats finally have the cover guys to at least be competitive.

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Just to be clear, I'm only thinking of a matchup problem with the key 5 LB's (Chandler, Rob, Jerod, Dante, Jamie) on the field against 3 WR. A more traditional nickel would cure that.
But the more I think about it, I don't know the last time the Pats had this dynamic a group of LB's and DB's to choose from and as such, I think the term "traditional" won't be used much when describing their schemes. In fact, I would predict that the pregame shows in a few weeks will each have segments on the exotic packages the league will be seeing from BB.

SacPete1 said:

Interesting....something I'll definitely be looking for. So as much as I agree with you regarding seeing Chandler, Rob, Jerod, Jamie and Dante on the field as much as possible, I also see a matchup problem when Miami goes with 3 WR. I suspect we'll see plenty of rotation at DT due to the heat with Vince still getting the most reps. Who do you see getting the second most reps at DT?

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I'm talking about base defense. One of the lbs will come out for a corner in nickel.

RayClay said:

That doesn't mean there was anything to judge them on either.

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For us, no, but BB has plenty to judge them on. He knows their health status, and they played for him last season. You speak as if you start all over again in camp and there is no prior assessment of ability.
Kelly declined from where he was last year, I think thats obvious.

I made a logical surmise based on the fact that BB plans ahead and we will need to develop linemen without the benefit of a high pick. Furthermore, the injured Kelly was picked up in two days.

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Kelly at 80% (or whatever he is) wasn't good enough to make this team but was good enough to get a shot elsewhere. If we didn't have better players he would still be here.
I disagree that he needs to have every DT spot on the roster other than Wilfork in a developmental phase for the future. That isn't happening at any other position. We could easily have kept Wilfork, 4 young DL for the future, and Kelly if Kelly were going to play ahead of those guys.

Did you watch Kelly all summer in practice and your opinion is he's still too injured? I'm from out of state,. so I couldn't.

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I'm not saying he is 'still injured', I'm saying his return from the injury has him a lesser player than he was before it.

So now you're making my argument? Yes, they are young and apparently all will be healthy. There is no room for a 33 year old, given that we need to develop young linemen for the future.

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I could be, but I don't understand what your argument is.
Mine is that the players we kept, in September of 2014 are better DTs than Tommy Kelly. They were not in September of 2013, but Kelly is no longer that same player. If he were, he would be on the roster and playing ahead of guys like Joe Vellano. Are you saying we weakened the team and kept a lesser player so that we could ride the future that is Joe Vellano?

It is likely that you will see Quarles or Gaston, maybe even both back on the team in the next week or so. Belichick usually takes 2-3 weeks before he sets his roster.

Brady6 said:

It is likely that you will see Quarles or Gaston, maybe even both back on the team in the next week or so. Belichick usually takes 2-3 weeks before he sets his roster.

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I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for Quarles and/or Worthy, until I see that they've been picked up by another team. Both of those guys have useful skill sets and upside, IMO.

AndyJohnson said:

Did tommy Kelly make 10 million? Was he a third round pick in his first 2 seasons.
We can go back and forth but isn't the unarguable point that bb did what's best for the football team? If Kelly were where he was a year ago he would be on the team.

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He did what's best for the team. He made it so good young players have a chance to play and develop, in favor of a good old player.

It's what's best for the team in the long run and may be before the year's out too, we won't know.

If Kelly were where he was a year ago he would be on the team.

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You can speculate if you want. He played five games last year. He's a year older and has four new young players as competition that weren't competition then.

SacPete1 said:

Just to be clear, I'm only thinking of a matchup problem with the key 5 LB's (Chandler, Rob, Jerod, Dante, Jamie) on the field against 3 WR. A more traditional nickel would cure that.
But the more I think about it, I don't know the last time the Pats had this dynamic a group of LB's and DB's to choose from and as such, I think the term "traditional" won't be used much when describing their schemes. In fact, I would predict that the pregame shows in a few weeks will each have segments on the exotic packages the league will be seeing from BB.

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I hear you. At least on paper, this year they have a ridiculous amount of flexibility. Think about the defense when the other team is in a passing down (Week 5) and we will assume there are 4WR/1TE spread.

Line: Jones, Nink and pick someone else (WV, Easley, Chris Jones, etc..)
LB: Collins
DB: Revis, DMC, Arrington, Ryan, Browner, Butler, Dennard

Of course others can be thrown in like Harmon, Mayo, etc but from a pure man-to-man coverage standpoint I think this will eventually be their best unit. Not too shabby at all...