A history lesson from this board

Gwedd · Aug 8, 2014

Agree. It'll be interesting to see if Brady starts next week, and the order of who follows him.

To be honest we tend to read too much into these games. The Coaches are trying to put different players into different situations to see how they respond. True, everyone wants to win, but whether we win or lose, it means nothing to the season.

What's important is seeing who responds best in the variou8s situations. Who steps up. Who plays consistently.

In the end, I'm convinced we still keep 3 QB's this season. Mallet stays on as the veteran backup while Jimmy G learns the system and is groomed to take over the Hammah's spot next season.

PatFanCraig · Aug 8, 2014

Overall Grapps threw better passes. The Grapps I been waiting to pass like that! Mallet has shown great accuracy before. Remember he didn't have his best target in Gronk or most experienced in Edelman. And the OLine was less than adequate much less OK or good.

Patschick your comment on Cassel I'm honestly impressed! And with a team and coaching/system around him he could be a 4000 yard 25 TD QB completing over 60%. But that's with Great/very good OLine,Very good/great weapons,good running game and in a good system with good coaching. That's why I'm not for these unproven just better than OK QBs getting paid nearly what the top 5 do. Has anybody noticed all these young qbs who are playing pretty good/winning and getting massive contracts are surrounded by talent/defenses/coaching/systems. Kaepernick/Flacco/Dalton/Wilson soon are on very talented teams. Cincinnati has perhaps the best OLine and an abundance of top talented weapons. Cassel in Cincinnati could have just got a big contract. Not as big because he isn't as young as Andy but you get the point.

The first thing I learned about pro football as a kid was the 1991 redskins. My dads brother was a scout/recruiter for a division1 ACC school. He told my dad who taught me how important pass protection was. I didn't like the team or its QB at time. He said just take a qb who can throw accurate to his WRs and give him top protection and he becomes great. Even if he is slow and takes time releasing the ball just protect him and he will be great. He said I was right about their QB not being great but that he will play better than QBs who are better than him because the redskins line was historically great that year. And did say my uncle also said The QB would fade out once his OLine did. He was so right about Mark. With weapons/OLine is Andy really better than Matt. Just think what Brady could do with a truly Good OLine and at least complete WRs with size/speed/route running. But that's a different discussion.

BTTA · Aug 8, 2014

SalemPats said:
Every year i look forward to the 1st preseason game. After the game I say the same thing, why are there so many pre-season games. Games 1 and 4 mean nothing.The 2nd half is full of guys who will probably get cut and the 1st half is vets who don't want to play or youngsters getting their bearings set. The defenses are extremely basic, the o-line is mixed and they are not a unit. It's sloppy football. This was a tough game, because the boys looked off, a couple of nice things here or there, but next week is when pre-season games really start

This is even more true now that the team vs. team practice weeks are becoming common. Brady got great opportunity to get his timing and communication down on Monday and Tuesday of this week. The practice game becomes even less useful

Haley · Aug 8, 2014

I don't remember if Cassel made progress year over year but one of my issues with Mallett is whether or not over the course of the last few years he has made progress.

See what you think, I'm not seeing it if is there. In fact, he looks to have the same motion and footwork in this video as what I saw last night.

p.s. that hit on Price at about 6 minutes in ... ouch, I had forgotten about that.

Ivan · Aug 8, 2014

Not

moosekill said:
You have a strange definintion for a player who is a bust.

Nothing strange about it, if it wasn't triumphs binky it's a bust, regardless of how well they play

shmessy · Aug 8, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
Overall Grapps threw better passes. The Grapps I been waiting to pass like that! Mallet has shown great accuracy before. Remember he didn't have his best target in Gronk or most experienced in Edelman. And the OLine was less than adequate much less OK or good.

Patschick your comment on Cassel I'm honestly impressed! And with a team and coaching/system around him he could be a 4000 yard 25 TD QB completing over 60%. But that's with Great/very good OLine,Very good/great weapons,good running game and in a good system with good coaching. That's why I'm not for these unproven just better than OK QBs getting paid nearly what the top 5 do. Has anybody noticed all these young qbs who are playing pretty good/winning and getting massive contracts are surrounded by talent/defenses/coaching/systems. Kaepernick/Flacco/Dalton/Wilson soon are on very talented teams. Cincinnati has perhaps the best OLine and an abundance of top talented weapons. Cassel in Cincinnati could have just got a big contract. Not as big because he isn't as young as Andy but you get the point.

The first thing I learned about pro football as a kid was the 1991 redskins. My dads brother was a scout/recruiter for a division1 ACC school. He told my dad who taught me how important pass protection was. I didn't like the team or its QB at time. He said just take a qb who can throw accurate to his WRs and give him top protection and he becomes great. Even if he is slow and takes time releasing the ball just protect him and he will be great. He said I was right about their QB not being great but that he will play better than QBs who are better than him because the redskins line was historically great that year. And did say my uncle also said The QB would fade out once his OLine did. He was so right about Mark. With weapons/OLine is Andy really better than Matt. Just think what Brady could do with a truly Good OLine and at least complete WRs with size/speed/route running. But that's a different discussion.

Whenever I read your posts, I hear **** Vitale's voice.

AzPatsFan · Aug 8, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
From August 2008. (BTW, at least one of these is mine, so I'm not exempting myself here.)

It is nice that someone else remembered 2008, too. The Skins played their first and second stringers into the second quarter, and BB opened with and played his third fourth and fifth stringers from the outset.

BB must feel he knows what he has so he was giving the end of roster players every opportunity. Most failed,as you would expect. So his cut list will be based on both practice and preseason play.

Buchanon can't set the edge any better; Browner did get a flag for PI/DPI etc, the reserve LBs didn't win any prizes, the UDFA RBs are nothing special and appear to deserve the UDFA status. Boyce was disappointing, and those below him did nothing. Mallett like Cassell, got to polish his POISE.

Tunescribe · Aug 8, 2014

patchick said:

Where did you get that action smilie? Are they making a comeback at Patsfans?

RayClay · Aug 8, 2014

Triumph said:
Do I?

Cassel won 11 games in NE because the Pats totally changed the offenseive scheme and relied heavy on the run. Cassel won 2nd best season was in KC with 10 wins. KC made the playoffs vs Baltimore only to lose Jamal Charles in the first half. Cassel was toast without Charles.

Pioli got fired trading for Cassel.

He was 8th in all of football in passing yards, 11th in percentage.

You can look this stuff up on the internet, you know.

patchick · Aug 8, 2014

Tunescribe said:
Where did you get that action smilie? Are they making a comeback at Patsfans?

Alas, not yet! I just inserted it as an image.

RayClay · Aug 8, 2014

To complete the "history lesson" we had about the worst running game in the BB era in 2008. Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk led with mediocre seasons.

dales804 · Aug 8, 2014

RayClay said:
To complete the "history lesson" we had about the worst running game in the BB era in 2008. Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk led with mediocre seasons.

You sure about that? In 2008 they ran for about 2200 yards and averaged around 4.4 YPC.

Faulk ran for around 500 yards at 6.1 per carry and Morris had 727 at 4.7 a carry.

RayClay · Aug 8, 2014

dales804 said:
You sure about that? In 2008 they ran for about 2200 yards and averaged around 4.4 YPC.

Faulk ran for around 500 yards at 6.1 per carry and Morris had 727 at 4.7 a carry.

They had a lot of different running backs, but i wouldn't say that was a stellar crew.

RayClay · Aug 8, 2014

dales804 said:
You sure about that? In 2008 they ran for about 2200 yards and averaged around 4.4 YPC.

Faulk ran for around 500 yards at 6.1 per carry and Morris had 727 at 4.7 a carry.

The poster said this.

Cassel won 11 games in NE because the Pats totally changed the offenseive scheme and relied heavy on the run.

Well Cassell ran for 270 himself, but he also threw for 3,693 for 8th out of 32 teams and 63.4% for 11th out of 32.

If they have a scheme that's so effective it can use those runners to help a guy who hasn't started since high school get those numbers, they should keep it up.

I guess that Brady guy is no good either since they relied on the run so much at the end of last year.

Triumph · Aug 9, 2014

RayClay said:
He was 8th in all of football in passing yards, 11th in percentage.

You can look this stuff up on the internet, you know.

And?

The Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on BUST who failed miserably in KC. Cassel definitely helped in the downfall and firing of Pioli. Today, Cassel is sitting on the bench in Minnesota.

Its not even debatable.

Triumph · Aug 9, 2014

RayClay said:
To complete the "history lesson" we had about the worst running game in the BB era in 2008. Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk led with mediocre seasons.

FAIL

NE had the 4th ranked run game and 15th ranked pass game in 2008.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2008

Google is your friend.

AzorianPats · Aug 9, 2014

Triumph said:
And?

The Chiefs spent a 2nd round pick on BUST who failed miserably in KC. Cassel definitely helped in the downfall and firing of Pioli. Today, Cassel is sitting on the bench in Minnesota.

Its not even debatable.

No they spent a 2nd rd pick on Cassel AND Vrabel.

Cassel ended horribly in KC, but I wouldn't call him a bust. They made the playoffs and won the AFC west in 2010. For KC standards, that's successful.

goheels22002 · Aug 9, 2014

It's tough to resist weighing in on this history lesson when it comes to "busts." Matt Cassell was not a bust, nor could he even make the top 25 Patriots busts if we tried.

Cassell was a 7th Round draft pick (which alone disqualifies him from being a bust.) He's been in the league 10 years, has over 15,000 yards passing after not seeing the back side of the clipboard for three years, and has an 80+ career passer rating. He's the definition of a journeyman, not a bust.

Here's a very fun chart from Pro-Football- Reference: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/

I love the exotic stats at the far right to see where the 2008 Patriots ranked in Patriots history. The team OSRS for 2008 was better than the Super Bowl teams of 2001, 2003, and 1985. Cassell did a fine job with the Patriots - for a very modest salary.

Cassell was paid $525k in 2008 as Brady's backup (compared to Mallett's $967k in 2014.) In July 2009, Pioli signed Cassel to a six-year, $62.7 million contract with $28 million guaranteed. The Vikings signed him for $10M over 2 years.

Pioli definitely over-extended the Chiefs for Cassel. Could the Chiefs consider Cassel a bust? Possibly. But that was more a screw-up by management than by the player.

dales804 · Aug 9, 2014

RayClay said:
They had a lot of different running backs, but i wouldn't say that was a stellar crew.

Personnel wise, they didn't have much but they got the job done.

dales804 · Aug 9, 2014

RayClay said:
The poster said this.

Well Cassell ran for 270 himself, but he also threw for 3,693 for 8th out of 32 teams and 63.4% for 11th out of 32.

If they have a scheme that's so effective it can use those runners to help a guy who hasn't started since high school get those numbers, they should keep it up.

I guess that Brady guy is no good either since they relied on the run so much at the end of last year.

I did not see you quote that post in the one I replied to. But last year at the end of the season Brady was handcuffed because of the lack of weapons to throw to. That clearly showed up in the AFCCG. And even the divisional game. It doesn't mean Brady is no good just that the better option was to run to win games at that point.

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