Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

Raymond · Jul 15, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Stop with the silliness.

In 2007, the Patriots played one game.....

ONE

where they scored fewer than 20 points. They had faced the same team that held them to that season low, just a few weeks earlier, and they'd hung 38 on them. In the rematch, yes, the offense let the team down, but there were reasons for that. Brady could barely move because of his ankle, which meant that QB who was considered the best pocket mover in the NFL was relegated to being a statue. In that same rematch, the team's starting RG was lost early on, and his replacement was already banged up. In that same rematch, the team's TEs were all hurt, meaning they weren't much help. In that same rematch, the CB2 was playing with a serious groin injury.

Despite all that, the Patriots had the lead late in the 4th, before the team's heralded CB1 wandered off from his assignment, and the team's heralded S1 failed to jar a ball loose from a lousy player on a catch with a helmet..

No team in NFL history has ever gone 19-0 in a season, so *****ing about the 2007 offense as being something not to strive for again, because the bad game and loss came at the end, is just stupid. It's the product of emotion instead of reason.

A more straightforward, simple explanation of those events hasn't been read by me.

d%#*!@t, this has haunted me for six years now.

captain stone · Jul 15, 2014

Another reason: the OC wasn't ready for Prime Time.

Deus Irae · Jul 15, 2014

Just a follow up on the whole "DEFENSE!" nonsense:

The '85 Bears, considered by many to be the greatest defensive team ever to play in the NFL, allowed 38 points to the Miami Dolphins, and lost the game. That's proof that the Patriots need to go offense, because you can't rely on a defense to always hold the opponent to just 10-15 points, right?

After all, last year's Patriots defense never allowed an opponent to score 38 on them, but the offense was held to under 15 points twice, and under 10 points once.

PatsWickedPissah · Jul 15, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Stop with the silliness.

In 2007, the Patriots played one game.....

ONE

where they scored fewer than 20 points. They had faced the same team that held them to that season low, just a few weeks earlier, and they'd hung 38 on them. In the rematch, yes, the offense let the team down, but there were reasons for that. Brady could barely move because of his ankle, which meant that QB who was considered the best pocket mover in the NFL was relegated to being a statue. In that same rematch, the team's starting RG was lost early on, and his replacement was already banged up. In that same rematch, the team's TEs were all hurt, meaning they weren't much help. In that same rematch, the CB2 was playing with a serious groin injury.

Despite all that, the Patriots had the lead late in the 4th, before the team's heralded CB1 wandered off from his assignment, and the team's heralded S1 failed to jar a ball loose from a lousy player on a catch with a helmet..

No team in NFL history has ever gone 19-0 in a season, so *****ing about the 2007 offense as being something not to strive for again, because the bad game and loss came at the end, is just stupid. It's the product of emotion instead of reason.

What a homer

chasa · Jul 15, 2014

Deus Irae said:
so *****ing about the 2007 offense as being something not to strive for again, because the bad game and loss came at the end, is just stupid. It's the product of emotion instead of reason.

strive for?

Our offense last year would have been the number two offense in 2007(behind the patriots)(missing gronk, and having 3 rookies, and one first year patriot, in addition to welkers backup from 2012, aka a cast of unknowns that didnt start to gel til mid season, before getting hammered with injuries)

Our offense the year before(2012) was only 2 points per game off the 2007 squad

Our offense the year before that(2011)? 4 points less per game.

This isn't a case where the patriots are averaging 18 points per game. This is a case of the offense being one of the three best in the league.

What you are expecting is not striving for 2007 level offense. we already have that when healthy.

You know who had a 2007 patriots caliber offense? the broncos. Last time i checked they too ran into a buzzsaw of a defense and go beat down.

This is not a debate that can ever be won, by either side. I have evidence that shows tons and tons of offense in the modern era doesnt win a title.

You have the notion that just because it didnt work the first time(07), and it didnt work the second time(11), doesnt mean it wont work the third time because 30 years ago a team did it.

Danger Zone · Jul 15, 2014

chasa said:
This is not a debate that can ever be won, by either side.

Clearly, our modern reincarnation of Sun Tzu has chosen between two ancient adages:

a) The best football team is the one with the best offense

and

b) The best football team is the one with the best defense

The answer clearly being a).

So please stop with your silliness, your stupidity and your alien emotions already. It has been unequivocally determined that in football Offense is greater than Defense. One right, one wrong.

Now perhaps you can ask him which came first, the Chicken or the Egg? I want to know which is right and which is something only the stupid people believe in.

And maybe you can ask how it was that the Ravens won their Superbowls.. or dare I say it, the Patriot won theirs.

Unfortunately, I agree with both sides of this argument which appears to be over the hypothetical premise: If we only make one more great addition to the team this year, what side of the ball would it best help the team?

Thats a tough one (though probably no wrong answer) and a problem I'd really, really like Belichick to be considering right about now..

rochrist · Jul 16, 2014

supafly said:
I hate to be the pessimistic **** of the forum in this case, but I have some apprehension and cautious optimism as it pertains to Aaron Dobson.

I've seen everyone freaking out and talking about both Tate and Price being the "next biggest thing" based on college production, 40 times, and other measurables in the past several years. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times---and I'm just a complete dumbass of a homer.

Hopefully, Dobson steps up and makes the leap this year.

Dobson showed more in his first year than Price or Tate did in their entire Pats careers.

captain stone · Jul 16, 2014

That's the veritable definition of damning with faint praise.

Mack Herron · Jul 16, 2014

rochrist said:
Dobson showed more in his first year than Price or Tate did in their entire Pats careers.

But can he get and stay healthy?

Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 25m
When #Patriots camp opens next week, don't expect to see Aaron Dobson on the field. He won't be ready for awhile.

SeanBruschi54 · Jul 16, 2014

Mack Herron said:
But can he get and stay healthy?

Has he given you consistent reason that he won't be?

Ivan · Jul 16, 2014

SeanBruschi54 said:
Has he given you consistent reason that he won't be?

Foot injuries are always an ongoing concern.

SeanBruschi54 · Jul 16, 2014

Ivan said:
Foot injuries are always an ongoing concern.

It was a foot injury that was not operated on immediately and "took a chance" that it would heal itself. I cant really hold that against him, now if he's cleared to go and hurts it again THEN theres an area to start being skeptical about.

Ivan · Jul 16, 2014

SeanBruschi54 said:
It was a foot injury that was not operated on immediately and "took a chance" that it would heal itself. I cant really hold that against him, now if he's cleared to go and hurts it again THEN theres an area to start being skeptical about.

I'm not knocking him, I like Dobson and think he was a good pick, if he's healthy i expect a really good season from him, I was simply saying that foot injuries tend to be an ongoing concern.

Joker · Jul 16, 2014

Sun Tzu? what does a Chinese litigation attorney have to do with NFL football? Yao Ming on the comeback as a TE?

Danger Zone · Jul 16, 2014

Joker said:
Sun Tzu? what does a Chinese litigation attorney have to do with NFL football? Yao Ming on the comeback as a TE?

I assure you that in the small village Sun Tzu came from, American football was the sole topic of discussion..

And a 7'6" TE.. why hasnt this been done before?!?

Joker · Jul 16, 2014

oh shiznit!...dyam...I hope Manning isn't reading this board...

Zeus · Jul 16, 2014

Danger Zone said:
And a 7'6" TE.. why hasnt this been done before?!?

Would need to see his combine numbers and body fat % to be sure.

Joker · Jul 16, 2014

Is that YOU, Craig?

rochrist · Jul 16, 2014

SeanBruschi54 said:
Has he given you consistent reason that he won't be?

This. I understand that injuries are always a worry, but I get tired of a player who gets an injury his rookie season and immediately is considered 'injury prone'.

Mack Herron · Jul 16, 2014

rochrist said:
This. I understand that injuries are always a worry, but I get tired of a player who gets an injury his rookie season and immediately is considered 'injury prone'.

Where did anyone consider him injury prone? As Ivan said, some injuries are simply more worrisome than others and broken bones in the foot can be particularly difficult to heal. Dobson tried to play through it but couldn't, then he tried to heal without surgery but this attempt evidently failed. He missed OTAs and there is now concern he will also miss the start of TC, so already it is not a best case scenario. Hopefully the surgery will work, he comes back soon, fully healed, gets quickly up to speed and suffers no recurrence. But that is a lot of hoping and it is not the same as if he were healthy and ready to go.

Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

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