Pats backroom let down Brady AGAIN

Snake Eyes said:

How well did the Pats impose their will on the Bronocs defense? Oh yeah, they got their asses handed to them.

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Thanks for proving my point.
Your post was ignorant. No team imposes their will on every opponent.
Using one game is a ridiculous standard.

shmessy said:

The first part of your sentence is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

The second part is simply you talking out of your endzone:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brandon-bolden-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/james-white-2.html

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Seriously. If Belichick thought Bolden was a better player than White he wouldn't have picked White in the 4th round.

I just don't really get the love for Bolden. He had one good game in 2012 against a very poor Bills run defense. His 4.9 avg is so misleading. He's carried the ball more than 8 times only 3 times in 2 seasons

Triumph said:

Vereens a 3rd down RB. How many does McDaniels need? Bolden can contribute on 3rd down.

TE is weak. WR is questionable hoping that Almendola can stay healthy and that the 3 rookie WRs improve. If Gronk does not stay healty, the gameplan hasnt changed to defend the NE dink and dunk offense.

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Idk Triumph...it's off the topic for the thread but, seriously, you think Bolden can backup Vereen? He just seems like a JAG backup to me, can do a little of everything sort of well for a low price. I don't really have a problem with adding a backup for Vereen in the fourth round, especially since he may be able to KR and therefore replace part of Blount's role. And maybe he pushes Ridley a bit as well. Also, who would you have drafted over White there, with all the RB sliding down?

Back on topic to add: this game is won in the trenches. With Vollmer slowing down, and Wendell at center, we needed some beef on the OL as well and I'm glad BB addressed this area hard. Don't agree with OP that we needed WR help, we have enough at that position.

Snake Eyes said:

It's one thing to not win the SB, it's another to have your regular season powerhouse offense slow down to a crawl.

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To be fair, though, a big part of the offensive woes (2007 SB, 2009 WC, 2011 SB, 2012 AFCCG, 2013 AFCCG) has been the significant injuries.

Snake Eyes said:

Oh really? I thought the object was to score points, something our playoff offense isn't very good at, as evidenced by consistent playoff failure.

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Offenses do not score 30+ consistently against playoff competition.

primetime said:

There's a limited number of plays in an NFL game, and an even more limited number of plays that actually have an impact on the final score. These includes fumbles, and who picks up a fumble is entirely random. Other sports get around this randomness but smoothing it out across a 7-game series. The regular season of the NFL somewhat smooths this out across 17 games, but even then the randomness of a single game or even a single play (or single penalty) can dictate an entire season's outcome (missing out on a bye, missing out on the playoffs, etc.)

But whether you win or lose in the playoffs hinges on a small number of plays, which means that the "better" team wins only a tiny percentage of the time more than the "worse" team. Seattle was a great team but they very well could have lost to the Niners if Michael Bennett does not recover a Kaepernick fumble early in the 4th quarter. Or if a Russell Wilson fumble in the 4th quarter does not bounce right into his hands. The Super Bowl is probably an entirely different game if the center does not snap the ball five feet over Manning's head on the first play from scrimmage. And so on.

Building a team in the NFL is about building a team to win the most number of games in the regular season that you possibly can to get the best seat at the playoff roulette table with the most chips that you can. But even with the best seat and the most chips, you're still at the mercy of the wheel.

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Those things are going to happen but the better team tends to take advantage of them, a well coached team with good players is prepared for those eventualities and capitalizes on them. If things worked out differently SF might have won, but they're a damned good team as well.

Deus Irae said:

To be fair, though, a big part of the offensive woes (2007 SB, 2009 WC, 2011 SB, 2012 AFCCG, 2013 AFCCG) has been the significant injuries.

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That's true but aren't all teams dealing with injuries?

A better built team can manage them better and keep the train moving. Seattle's defense was still nasty even when the starters weren't in, they built the team in a manner that the players were like interchangeable parts so that things didn't completely fall apart when one of them wasn't in. We don't have anything close to that on either side of the ball.

Deus Irae said:

To be fair, though, a big part of the offensive woes (2007 SB, 2009 WC, 2011 SB, 2012 AFCCG, 2013 AFCCG) has been the significant injuries.

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And, I think, to a large extent pure dumb luck. It isn't like they haven't had dud offensive games in the regular season - they do, every four or five games, so the playoff dud isn't really an anomaly, it's actually pretty consistent. Unfortunately, the defense hasn't been good enough to pick up the slack (or was good enough in 2007 and maybe 2011, but got beat in freakish ways) against the best competition in the playoffs. This year might be different. It might not be. But, barring another rash of injuries (and even then), the team is again good enough to challenge for the #1 seed in the AFC, which is the important part.

English Patriot said:

Did they not get the memo? Tom needs help! Forehead over in Denver is throwing to all pros but once again when needing to get receiving help Brady will be asked to throw to UFA rookies like Kenbrell Thompkins for miracle game winning TD's.

They had stud tight ends and abundance of good college receivers sitting there at every pick waiting to be taken but instead decide to take a player that could have been had later on.

They must be expecting some serious year 2 jumps from what they already have and think Amendola is going to REALLY turn into Welker this time because without even knowing if Gronk will be 100% ready to go they did nothing in free agency to help and nothing in the draft either.

So what's the master plan now? Dustin Keller? The dude whose leg bent in half less than a year ago?

What a let down once again, but it's OK right? Tom is Tom and will find a way won't he. Pathetic if you ask me.

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Finally someone in here who doesn't have Bellicheck's thump up their ass.

Preaching to the choir brother. Don't worry about the homers bashing you in here. They bash me relentlessly, but always end up with pie in their face at the end of the season when those problems I mention end up surfacing. It's the internet and most people rep everything their franchise does as the correct thing for some reason and when things go wrong, they end up knee jerking on the players who weren't fit to carry the load any way.

Yes this was a horrible draft. It's not like they needed a ton on offense, but Brady definitely needs help. People who actually think that Lefell is the answer have no clue about the NFL, so don't even respond to those comments. I really don't understand why they didn't bring in Jackson when he was a free agent. This team could discipline him I think, but that's over. No point in discussing that. I think at this point we have to hope that Gronk can stay healthy which is very doubtful and that Dobson can learn how to catch a football more than twice in one game. But I don't understand at all why they aren't doing everything possible to build a SB winner right now when you see what the Broncos are doing. It's mind boggling actually.

Another thing to mention is that people seem to have amnesia as to how injury prone Edelman is. Sure, he lasted last season but his history says he might be an injury waiting to happen. Hopefully not, but I'd be a fool to expect Amendola to stagy healthy for more than 4 games at a time. Brittles simply can't be counted on to play Welker. It's amazing at how under appreciated Welker was in this place.

makoute said:

I'm very happy with the positions drafted, I don't know enough about evaluating talent to know whether those players were the best at their positions available when the pats drafted (although Stork did win the award for best center, that has to mean something), but I am very happy that those positions were drafted.

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Stork is an interesting player, he was an excellent college player, extremely hard working, great technique, and amazing leadership skills. Athletically he is limited however and he was able to overcome that at the collegiant level through hard work, I am just concerned with if he will be able to overcome his physical limitations at the pro level.

Snake Eyes said:

Those things are going to happen but the better team tends to take advantage of them, a well coached team with good players is prepared for those eventualities and capitalizes on them. If things worked out differently SF might have won, but they're a damned good team as well.

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This is why few teams win multiple SBs. "Building a team" can only get you in position to contend. The ability to finish the job develops or deteriorates (injuires) as the season unfolds. It is assinine to say that an organization that builds a team to always be in contention has a bad plan to win it all.
The Patriots under BB have gotten further, more often, than any team in history.

Thats not to say BB is always right (which is always the strawman counter argument) but it is to say his plan is exceptional and his decision making good. That is virtually indisputable.

AndyJohnson said:

Offenses do not score 30+ consistently against playoff competition.

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Sure, but the good ones can still get the job done. Defenses have been stalling the Patriot offense in the same basic way for several years because the structural flaws have not been addressed.

Andy, the other day you said Garoppolo was not an NFL caliber pick, what do you think of taking him where we did?

Keyser Söze said:

He's right, but get ready for the homers to bash you.

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He's not right at all. Denver had the best offense in NFL history last year and scored only 8 points in the SB. The reason they beat us was because they dominated in the trenches. The reason they lost in the SB was because they got dominated in the trenches by Seattle. Notice a theme?

Snake Eyes said:

Those things are going to happen but the better team tends to take advantage of them, a well coached team with good players is prepared for those eventualities and capitalizes on them. If things worked out differently SF might have won, but they're a damned good team as well.

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...so your argument is that, in the playoffs, two good teams play each other and the result was that the team who won was largely up to chance bounces on a small subset of plays, though the table the game is played on is tilted slightly towards the team has more talent and better coaching.

That sounds oddly familiar.

Peachhead said:

The best gift (i.e. help) an organization can give a qb is a dominant O-line. Look what good "all-pro" weapons did Manning in the Superbowl when he was running for his life.

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That's true, and if we had drafted Joel Bitonio, Xavier Su'a-Filo, Marcus Martin, or another top OL prospect I would have been extremely pleased with the draft. We didn't however we drafted Stork and Halapio who were both graded out as 7th round - UDFA.

he has a point. we're banking on the receivers making the second year jump. i think dobson will be better for sure. also thinking amendola will be healthy. my real concern is the TE position, we have nothing there besides gronk and he's always injured. hooman isn't a threat, dj williams stinks..was hoping we'd trade up and get niklas/ASJ...

primetime said:

...so your argument is that, in the playoffs, two good teams play each other and the result was that the team who won was largely up to chance bounces on a small subset of plays, though the table the game is played on is tilted slightly towards the team has more talent and better coaching.

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Yeah, and it's not luck.

Snake Eyes said:

Yeah, and it's not luck.

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Randomness and luck are the same thing.

You can stack the odds in your favor, but in the end you're still just playing roulette. 2007 might be the most glaring example of this.

Of course, the idea that how a season (and particularly the playoffs) plays out is largely affected by randomness doesn't lend itself well to bickering among armchair GMs on a message board, so we get a bunch of nonsense about "building a team for the regular season versus the playoffs."

I was happy with the 3rd day of the draft, but the first 2 weren't that great. Getting O-lineman that were rated highly was important, and we got some good ones. But to completely ignore one of the deepest WR class in draft history was a crime. Especially when the best rookie receiver we had last year is hobbling around in a walking boot. Also, Dobson probably would have been a 5th round pick in THIS draft class. So the opportunity to upgrade the WR position with a top notch WR prospect or 2, was a huge mistake IMO. Some of the 2nd round receivers may turn out to be great players, and we wasted a chance at them by taking an IF with our first round pick, and ignoring those receivers again with a QB pick in the 2nd, could have grabbed a QB in the 4th. Just too many GOOD players ignored, and then a 3rd round pick basically thrown away. Unless one of those UDFA TEs work out, our TE position is once again a weakness. As we watch our competitors get stronger, we take guys in the first and 2nd round who may not see the field in 2014, at least at 100%. And throw away our third round pick.

Said it dozens of times, sometimes quality is more important than quantity, haven't we learned our lesson with all the failures of our 2nd and 3rd round picks that sucked, but we acquired by trading down.

Logan Mankins is the best OG we have had in recent memory, take look at his athletic ability compared to Halapio and Stork.

Logan Mankins
Combine Invite: yes
Height: 6041
Weight: 307
40 Yrd Dash: 5.06
20 Yrd Dash: 3.00
10 Yrd Dash: 1.85
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 31 1/2
Broad Jump: 07'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.45
3-Cone Drill: 7.54

Jon Halapio
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6034
Weight: 323
40 Yrd Dash: 5.29
20 Yrd Dash: 3.06
10 Yrd Dash: 1.83
225 Lb. Bench Reps: N/A
Vertical Jump: 21 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.83
3-Cone Drill: 8.26

Bryan Stork
Dates: 03/18/14
Height: 6037
Weight: 315
40 Yrd Dash: 5.44
20 Yrd Dash: 3.09
10 Yrd Dash: 1.81
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 26
Broad Jump: 08'01"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 5.02
3-Cone Drill: 7.90

Take a look at Marcus Cannon for good measure, at 358 lbs.

Marcus Cannon
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6050
Weight: 358
40 Yrd Dash: 5.26
20 Yrd Dash: 3.07
10 Yrd Dash: 1.84
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 33
Vertical Jump: 30 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.97
3-Cone Drill: 8.07
5.22/5.34/5.43 40 range before Combine


Unless we are changing are OL scheme I cannot see how Stork and Halapio fit.