Hallelujah!!! Woody announces Rex is returning in 2014

letekro said:

Well, you've convinced me. Based on this, there is no question that Rex made the call on Sanchez. It's like when Belichick went to dinner with Tebow before the draft and then the Pats drafted him....oh wait.

GMs pick players. Their livelihood depends on those picks turning out well. No way Tannenbaum would have ceded that responsibility to a first time, rookie HC like Rex, your very compelling "evidence" above notwithstanding.

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Ryan talked about it from the beginning. He said Sanchez was his choice, he talked about how he went to see him personally, etc...

Here's the NYP noting it:

Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan fell in love with Mark Sanchez during the month before the 2009 NFL Draft. The duo was wowed by the young quarterback’s presence during a clandestine meeting in Southern California, followed by a workout at his nearby high school field.

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http://nypost.com/2012/11/14/jets-move-to-draft-sanchez-could-ultimately-cost-tannenbaum-ryan-their-jobs/

Here's the NYTimes quoting Ryan about that workout:

A team of Jets officials tried a misdirection play one night last month, sneaking Mark Sanchez in through a back door at the California hotel where the N.F.L. meetings were being held. They gave him an X’s and O’s quiz that he aced. Then they watched him throw the next day at his alma mater, Mission Viejo High School. The Jets were smitten.

“There had to be 20 receivers there that were volunteering,” Jets Coach Rex Ryan said. “That says something about this young man, the type of person he is. Guys were coming out of the woodwork to run routes for him. He’s got that kind of leadership. We saw the great feet. We saw the poise and how confident he was.”

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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/football/26jets.html?_r=0

And here's one more quote on it:

The Jets fell in love with Sanchez last month when the team's leadership met with him over two days in Southern California.

"This young man was so impressive," coach Rex Ryan said. "We knew I think right then that this was a guy that we really wanted."

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http://askville.amazon.com/Abram-Elam-included-Jets-trade-Sanchez/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=50179906

It is what it is. You clowning yourself about it won't change it.

letekro said:

Would've could've should've. I could play that game with the Pats and depending on which plays I select for redo, they could be 8-8 or 16-0. I guess, in your mind, sometimes the coach's record means everything, and sometimes it means nothing, depending on which way the wind is blowing within that forbiddingly barren expanse.

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If this is the best you've got, you should probably quite while you're 500 miles behind.

Deus Irae said:

Ryan talked about it from the beginning. He said Sanchez was his choice, he talked about how he went to see him personally, etc...

Here's the NYP noting it:



Jets move to draft Sanchez could ultimately cost Tannenbaum, Ryan their jobs | New York Post

Here's the NYTimes quoting Ryan about that workout:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/football/26jets.html?_r=0

And here's one more quote on it:



Besides Abram Elam, who else was included for the Jets trade for Sanchez?

It is what it is. You clowning yourself about it won't change it.

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These are very compelling. You would expect Rex to say that he didn't want Sanchez after the Jets drafted him?

Your point was that Rex made the call--that it was his decision--and he should suffer for it. Yet, Tannenbaum was the only one (other than Woody) with the organizational authority to make the call and was actually the one fired for the Sanchez debacle. So, I'm going to assume that is what happened unless you can introduce some evidence to the contrary. Since you haven't, I will assume you will now move the goalposts, lob more personal attacks, or resort to any number of other devices that those who don't know how to argue use to conceal that fact.

letekro said:

These are very compelling. You would expect Rex to say that he didn't want Sanchez after the Jets drafted him?

Your point was that Rex made the call--that it was his decision--and he should suffer for it. Yet, Tannenbaum was the only one (other than Woody) with the organizational authority to make the call and was actually the one fired for the Sanchez debacle. So, I'm going to assume that is what happened unless you can introduce some evidence to the contrary. Since you haven't, I will assume you will now move the goalposts, lob more personal attacks, or resort to any number of other devices that those who don't know how to argue use to conceal that fact.

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I don't understand what it is that Deus is concealing. Yes, Tannenbaum "made the pick". That's what the GM does at the draft. It's quite clear from the very beginning that Ryan was 100% on board with that decision and had complete knowledge of the entire process.

Post draft.....

“Honestly, that might have been what separated them — the immense respect we sensed from the people who played with Mark and knew him so well,” Ryan said.

Joker said:

I don't understand what it is that Deus is concealing. Yes, Tannenbaum "made the pick". That's what the GM does at the draft. It's quite clear from the very beginning that Ryan was 100% on board with that decision and had complete knowledge of the entire process.

Post draft.....

“Honestly, that might have been what separated them — the immense respect we sensed from the people who played with Mark and knew him so well,” Ryan said.

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Let's say that Ryan liked Sanchez. There's no evidence of that, but there's no evidence against that either. For the sake of argument, I'll grant you that he liked him and supported Tannenbaum's decision. So what? Is the point that Rex is a bad coach because he liked Sanchez who turned out to be a bad NFL QB? I would disagree with that just as I would disagree that BB a bad coach because of his own personnel gaffes.

As for what Deus is concealing, it is right there in my post.

letekro said:

Let's say that Ryan liked Sanchez. There's no evidence of that, but there's no evidence against that either. For the sake of argument, I'll grant you that he liked him and supported Tannenbaum's decision. So what? Is the point that Rex is a bad coach because he liked Sanchez who turned out to be a bad NFL QB? I would disagree with that just as I would disagree that BB a bad coach because of his own personnel gaffes.

As for what Deus is concealing, it is right there in my post.

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So your problem, among many, is that you don't understand what the word "evidence" means.


Also, for the record, I'm not concealing anything. My point was that Sanchez was Ryan's hand picked choice, and he was. In case you didn't know, Ryan also watched Freeman, but still chose Sanchez as the QB he wanted.

This isn't unknown to the football community. It's just, apparently, unknown to you.


Hey, since coming from the coach wasn't "evidence" in your world, I guess coming from the player won't be, either:

That's part of the reason Rex drafted me, because I value this job. It's my life. If somebody wanted to take that away from me, it's personal.

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http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/6863427/wanted-fight-coach-rex-ryan


Media/coach:

“Rex reached out to get Sanchez and it didn’t turn out,” Billick said. “Typically when you miss on a first-round quarterback, it costs you. The question is, are you going to be given another chance?”

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http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-27/jets-signing-sanchez-made-little-sense-to-some-nfl-statisticians

talk about switching goalposts...I made exactly ZERO reference to Rex being a bad coach because he was in on picking Sanchez. It IS absolutely and unequivocally clear from Ryan's own statements that he WAS in on the selection. It's not about "let's just say", it is FACT.

I'm out of this teapot tempest. Obviously there is some deeper seated issue going on here that I want no part of.

Joker said:

I'm out of this teapot tempest. Obviously there is some deeper seated issue going on here that I want no part of.

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Perhaps Letekro is a member of TLA (Toe Lickers of America).

Notorious Pervert Suspected In Walmart Toe Suck | The Smoking Gun

lamafist said:

Is there somewhere particular you get this idea from?

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letekro said:

Let's say that Ryan liked Sanchez. There's no evidence of that, but there's no evidence against that either.

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Dude s- You've got countless statements from Rex and Sanchez about Rex's input into the trade/selection. Rex Ryan even stated that Sanchez would always be his QB as long as he was head coach.

Rex Ryan: Sanchez will be QB ?as long as I am here? | ProFootballTalk

He even has a friggen tattoo of his wife wearing a Sanchez Jersey.

And you think Wrecks was opposed to having Sanchez?

Basically, letekro's arguments come down to: Rex can motivate a team to achieve above its capabilities, and managed to make the AFC championship game his first two years as a HC. Therefore, he's a really good HC.

The argument of (just about) everyone else is: Rex is indifferent at best when it comes to running an offense, is a player's manager to the point that he loses control of the locker room at times (witness the end of last season), and is too loyal to "his" guys. These weaknesses drown out any of the advantages listed above, and make him unsuitable to be a HC in the NFL.

Am I missing anything?

ewg_gestalt said:

Basically, letekro's arguments come down to: Rex can motivate a team to achieve above its capabilities, and managed to make the AFC championship game his first two years as a HC. Therefore, he's a really good HC.

The argument of (just about) everyone else is: Rex is indifferent at best when it comes to running an offense, is a player's manager to the point that he loses control of the locker room at times (witness the end of last season), and is too loyal to "his" guys. These weaknesses drown out any of the advantages listed above, and make him unsuitable to be a HC in the NFL.

Am I missing anything?

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I think Rex has his work cut out before he can be considered a "really good HC". My posts are in response to the jubilance of the OP and his coterie as if Rex's return is akin to Wade Phillips's or **** Jauron's. Putting aside how stupid it is to say that Rex is "indifferent" to offense (and therefore, indifferent to whether he wins games, has a job, makes money, etc.), I am willing to admit that it looks like Rex doesn't have it all figured out yet. However, he has shown an ability to beat the Patriots at a far better rate than the rest of the league and seems to be a pretty good strategist, at least defensively. Maybe, the Jets would have hired the second coming of Vince Lombardi if they didn't retain Rex, but I think it is more likely they would've hired someone worse.

letekro said:

I think Rex has his work cut out before he can be considered a "really good HC". My posts are in response to the jubilance of the OP and his coterie as if Rex's return is akin to Wade Phillips's or **** Jauron's. Putting aside how stupid it is to say that Rex is "indifferent" to offense (and therefore, indifferent to whether he wins games, has a job, makes money, etc.), I am willing to admit that it looks like Rex doesn't have it all figured out yet. However, he has shown an ability to beat the Patriots at a far better rate than the rest of the league and seems to be a pretty good strategist, at least defensively. Maybe, the Jets would have hired the second coming of Vince Lombardi if they didn't retain Rex, but I think it is more likely they would've hired someone worse.

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Wade Phillips has been a much better HC than has Rex Ryan.

Deus Irae said:

Wade Phillips has been a much better HC than has Rex Ryan.

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The jokes write themselves here at Patsfans.

letekro said:

The jokes write themselves here at Patsfans.

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Wade Phillips has been to the playoffs 5 times in 8 full seasons as a head coach

Wade Phillips is 82-64 as a head coach.

Deus Irae said:

Wade Phillips has been to the playoffs 5 times in 8 full seasons as a head coach

Wade Phillips is 82-64 as a head coach.

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You're a funny guy. And Barry Switzer was a great coach too right?

Deus Irae said:

Wade Phillips has been a much better HC than has Rex Ryan.

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This.

Let just keep digging a bigger and bigger hole.

letekro said:

The jokes write themselves here at Patsfans.

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You really don't have a clue or you just make it up as you go along.

No one's saying that Wade is a great coach. Just that he's better than Ryan. Not really saying much with that statement. Sorry.

VinnyPatrollie said:

This.

Let just keep digging a bigger and bigger hole.

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Ha. Go post that nonsense at a Broncos, Cowboys, Bills or Texans forum and let me know how that goes for you. If you can find a single person that agrees with you I'll happily eat crow.

Deus Irae said:

Wade Phillips has been a much better HC than has Rex Ryan.

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Wade is 1-5 in the playoffs, Rex is 4-2. Wade is one of those guys who can manage a situation, usually coming in to pick up the pieces after a mess, and having early success before the wheels fall off (Bills and Cowboys.) He's that guy you bring in who the owner can get along with and be the bridge between high maintenance egomaniacs. Wade would be a good replacement for Rex when Woody gets the memo that he ain't gonna win anything with Rex at the controls.

goheels22002 said:

Wade is 1-5 in the playoffs, Rex is 4-2. Wade is one of those guys who can manage a situation, usually coming in to pick up the pieces after a mess, and having early success before the wheels fall off (Bills and Cowboys.) He's that guy you bring in who the owner can get along with and be the bridge between high maintenance egomaniacs. Wade would be a good replacement for Rex when Woody gets the memo that he ain't gonna win anything with Rex at the controls.

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A kicker who had only missed one kick all year chokes on 3 in one game. Tom Brady throws an unpressured INT on a screen pass and Alge Crumpler drops an easy breadbasket TD.

Are we really supposed to pretend that it was Ryan's coaching doing that? Are we really going to pretend that the 4-2 for Rex wasn't littered with all sorts of luck, and are we really going to ignore everything but those two lucky runs?

Sorry, but I just can't do it. If Rex was a good coach, I'd want him far away from the Jets, and I'd say so openly. That team is Marty Schottenheimer (for example) and a decent QB away from being a real pain in the ass team. I'm thrilled that they chose to keep someone like Ryan instead of making that sort of heads up move.

Maybe Rex will learn how to be a true head coach, and his being in NY will come back to bite the Patriots in the ass. He's shown no signs of that through 5 years, though. What he's shown is a lot of reasons that help explain why the Ravens passed on him for Harbaugh.