Offensive Line Struggles

hellolin · Oct 21, 2013

You guys completely forget about how tight ends affects your Oline's blocking game, with Gronk and AH the last 2 seasons we have so much flexibility at the oline we can almost do anything with it, the same starting 5 got used to that and now they are without the tight ends, thus the struggle

supafly · Oct 21, 2013

ausbacker said:
After 7 games, I am struggling to see anything to counter your opinion with Brady6. Really, it is incredible that the team enjoys a 5-2 record given the dysfunction of the OL in 2013. Danté has his work cut out.

Yeah, it has been a downer for sure. I think there is no bigger priority than a first or second round OL pick in the draft. I actually wouldn't mind seeing the same method of madness as this year in accumulating more picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds again, where we can address both sides of the ball in the trenches.

I still think that Dan Connelly's days are numbered at the end of this year, especially with that 3m dollar cap hit next season. To me, it's a no-brainer so far, although I think we'd be good with a significant pay reduction/restructuring too as a backup interior player with experience here.

And yet somewhere in Dallas, Brian Waters just got off of a plane where he really helped their offensive line today. Go figure...

supafly · Oct 21, 2013

RayClay said:
Most of it's likely Brady having to spend more time in the pocket.

Canuck said:
Lack of passing threats. Edelman our 6th rated receiver last year is now our top receiver. Under pressure Brady is struggling to find an open receiver.

The rookie receivers are just that, rookies. Dropping balls, running wrong routes, failure to adj routes correctly when Brady is under pressure.

Mostly the defenders don't have to fear getting burned when they pass rush.

Teams are attacking the weakest part of our offensive line which is the center and RG.

I think RayClay and Canuck's comments hit it right on the head.

Last year Brady had the quickest release time in the entire NFL at somewhere near 2 1/2 seconds. This year things are a bit different with no one replicating Welker and Hernandez's roles.

Guts · Oct 21, 2013

supafly said:
I think RayClay and Canuck's comments hit it right on the head.

Last year Brady had the quickest release time in the entire NFL at somewhere near 2 1/2 seconds. This year things are a bit different with no one replicating Welker and Hernandez's roles.

That's what Brady is missing that someone to move the chains after the catch...Woodhead would've helped a ton too. Luckily it's still the first half of the season and the team is not even near its full potential and they are
5-2.

manxman2601 · Oct 21, 2013

I don't see this O Line being any worse than last year. Three things have changed.

1. Brady can't get the ball out as quick with no Woodhead or Welker out there. Brady had the quickest release of all QBs last year and whilst I haven't seen any numbers for this, it wouldn't surprise me if it was near the slowest this year. That in itself will account for much of the increased pressure.

2. defenses have nothing to be scared about when it comes to facing our offense this year and can tee off on Brady much more confidently this year. They can also focus on stopping the run much more forcing us into more obvious passing downs which again stresses the protection.

3. Last year it was our offense that dictated the pace when we were on the field with the no huddle qiuick play offense. We almost literally would have defenses on their heals for whole periods of the game. This year that isn't the case allowing defenses to be much more aggressive.

The O Line hasn't got worse - it was always fairly average anyway but was helped out by the scheme. This year that scheme advantage has evaporated exposing the flaws that were always there.

Marinlik · Oct 21, 2013

Brady6 said:
Clearly that plays a part in some of the blocking issues but there have also been plays where players are coming through completely unblocked, or the lineman is getting beat decisively and immediately.

It may not be as simple as do the same 5 guys forget how to block:

• Solder and Wendell have a full season of game tape available for other teams to study and find ways to exploit them, Solder and Wendell in my opinion need to be conscious of that and make the necessary adjustments because right now they’re being exploited on a weekly basis.
• Mankins and Connolly are both in their 30’s and both have struggled with injury’s over the past few years, in my opinion Mankins is nowhere near the player he used to be.
• Cannon has not progressed as a player, the fact that after 3 years in the NFL and is still making rookie mistakes is something that I consider to be a major disappointment. Cannon is an incredibility talented player and he should have made his way into the starting lineup by now, the reason he has not is because his play has been poor as a reserve.
• The loss of Donald Thomas goes mostly unnoticed but I see it as one of the biggest free agent losses of the offseason, he was very good last season and covered up a lot of the diminished play of players like Mankins and Connolly.

I think that Mankins was pretty mediocre last year. But this year he is much better again. He is probably much healtier this year. Last year I would agree with you about him. But he was not the same player last year that he is now, and was before his injury. If you look at the all 22 tape you can see that he makes pretty damn good blocks.

I do hope that we draft a center next year, because Wendell is not cutting it.

PatsBoy12 · Oct 21, 2013

But but but you can't blame Brady's decline on the O-Line and inconsistent play of the receivers.

Nah, in all seriousness, the blame goes all around. The O-Line has been terrible, the receiver play has been inconsistent, and the QB play has been erratic at best. The team refuses to feature Ridley anymore. Bolden loses focus on two or three plays a game, and they ALWAYS seem to be plays where he could have gone for a big gain or TD. The whole offense is out of whack so far this season.

On the plus side, at least none of us will have to endure any more Peyton Manning undefeated BS. I don't even care if the Chiefs do it that much. I just didn't want the Broncos to do it. I know some of us, if not most, were thinking it.

resdubwhite · Oct 21, 2013

Are there any personnel switcheroos that can be performed to tighten this unit up. To my very amateur eye Solder is in Trouble.
We know Vollmer can play LT. Would it be worth putting Vollmer there for example. I know that exposes the right side for sure, but at least Brady can see the hit coming.

PatsBoy12 · Oct 21, 2013

resdubwhite said:
Are there any personnel switcheroos that can be performed to tighten this unit up. To my very amateur eye Solder is in Trouble.
We know Vollmer can play LT. Would it be worth putting Vollmer there for example. I know that exposes the right side for sure, but at least Brady can see the hit coming.

There would be nobody to play Vollmer's role if they put him at LT. I don't trust Cannon out there, and I believe that would be the substitution if the Pats moved Vollmer. Solder is a true LT and can't play anywhere else on the line, like Matt Light. Mankins has no positional versatility either. I don't know if anything can be done with Wendell. He showed some good stuff last season, but he's been overpowered every game this season. Dan hasn't played well. Vollmer is the only one that has been somewhat consistent, but you know he'll go down at some point. He, in fact, was injured earlier this season but has been able to play through it.

resdubwhite · Oct 21, 2013

PatsBoy12 said:
There would be nobody to play Vollmer's role if they put him at LT. I don't trust Cannon out there, and I believe that would be the substitution if the Pats moved Vollmer. Solder is a true LT and can't play anywhere else on the line, like Matt Light. Mankins has no positional versatility either. I don't know if anything can be done with Wendell. He showed some good stuff last season, but he's been overpowered every game this season. Dan hasn't played well. Vollmer is the only one that has been somewhat consistent, but you know he'll go down at some point. He, in fact, was injured earlier this season but has been able to play through it.

it might be similar to moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. But Cannon to RG and Connolly to C?

manxman2601 · Oct 21, 2013

resdubwhite said:
Are there any personnel switcheroos that can be performed to tighten this unit up. To my very amateur eye Solder is in Trouble.
We know Vollmer can play LT. Would it be worth putting Vollmer there for example. I know that exposes the right side for sure, but at least Brady can see the hit coming.

Get Amendola back is probably the single biggest move to improve the OL. If Brady can confidently get the ball out quicker, that'll take the pressure off the OL.

mgteich · Oct 21, 2013

This is an excellent analysis.

Those who criticize the line (or Brady for that matter) need to provide evidence that Brady is throwing in the same time frame as last year. I think the reality is that Brady is having to hold the ball longer.

The line has NOT gotten worse, compared to last year, except at backup OG (where we have Cannon who you all wanted to start).

manxman2601 said:
I don't see this O Line being any worse than last year. Three things have changed.

1. Brady can't get the ball out as quick with no Woodhead or Welker out there. Brady had the quickest release of all QBs last year and whilst I haven't seen any numbers for this, it wouldn't surprise me if it was near the slowest this year. That in itself will account for much of the increased pressure.

2. defenses have nothing to be scared about when it comes to facing our offense this year and can tee off on Brady much more confidently this year. They can also focus on stopping the run much more forcing us into more obvious passing downs which again stresses the protection.

3. Last year it was our offense that dictated the pace when we were on the field with the no huddle qiuick play offense. We almost literally would have defenses on their heals for whole periods of the game. This year that isn't the case allowing defenses to be much more aggressive.

The O Line hasn't got worse - it was always fairly average anyway but was helped out by the scheme. This year that scheme advantage has evaporated exposing the flaws that were always there.

Brady_to_Moss · Oct 21, 2013

Not good when you are 36 years old QB. At this rate he might not make it to 40. He is taking a beating.

Mack Herron · Oct 21, 2013

The previous posts highlight that the big change in personnel last year is at receiver. The receivers are not in the place Brady expects them to be when he expects them to be there. This disrupts the entire timing of the offense and forces Brady to hold on the ball and the OL to hold their blocks. Defenses see this, of course, and plan accordingly. That is not to say that there have not been breakdowns in the blocking, or poorly thrown passes with good protection and open receivers. But to highlight only one of these elements while ignoring the others seems short-sighted.

50-yard-line · Oct 21, 2013

Manxman nailed it, particularly with #3. One of the things that has kept Brady upright has been no-huddle and fast pace.

They can't do that at this time. Look at the teams that beat them: Bengals, Jets (the Jets could have beaten them twice), Lions in preseason. The Bills gave them fits in Game 1...

The four teams all have stud defensive lines.

The Pats have a long way to go.

reflexblue · Oct 21, 2013

I spent some time watching wendell yesterday, on at least three occasions he looked like a matador against who ever he was defending, while connelly and mankins held their blocks. With wendell I don't think its technique, i don't think he is physically strong enough to hold up against bigger stronger tackles. He reminds me of koppen, koppen had good technique, but struggled against the bigger stronger tackles he went up against. And we'ed see the same problem..pressure right up the middle.

SeymourTrophies · Oct 21, 2013

The receiving options certainly aren't keeping the defense honest, but this year and last, you can tell how the offense is going to do by looking at the defense on paper. This o-line isn't winning the short yardage battles consistently, and the defense is getting pressure without blitzing. The only other year our receivers were this bad, we had a good o-line and a good duo of RB's. For years, we consistently won the battle at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. Now, it's a toss up against the bad to okay d-lines, and we have to hold onto our hats if the other team has anyone good inside.

But at least we're back to a 20 point outing being a bad day at the office for the O.

PatsFan2 · Oct 21, 2013

reflexblue said:
I spent some time watching wendell yesterday, on at least three occasions he looked like a matador against who ever he was defending, while connelly and mankins held their blocks. With wendell I don't think its technique, i don't think he is physically strong enough to hold up against bigger stronger tackles. He reminds me of koppen, koppen had good technique, but struggled against the bigger stronger tackles he went up against. And we'ed see the same problem..pressure right up the middle.

As small of Koppen was physically I don't ever remember him looking as bad as Wendell. And yes Koppen did have problems with some Bigger DT's.

SeymourTrophies · Oct 21, 2013

Koppen had trouble against Jamal Williams and Kris Jenkins, but so did everyone.

VrabelJr · Oct 21, 2013

You can't get sacked if you run the ball. Averaging around 20 attempts per game is pathetic.

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