Quentin Sims

Fringe NFL player. Made some plays against other fringe NFL players. Congrats to him.

KontradictioN said:

It would seem that Sims is this year's Darnell Jenkins on this forum.

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He was so fast...

Brady6 said:

Last year we were 13th in the NFL in special despite keeping these guys

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What is this statistic, ranking the team "in special"?

The Patriots coverage teams were excellent last year. They ranked 3rd in the league on kickoffs, as measured by opponents' average starting position. They were 3rd in the league in average punt return length allowed, and pinned opponents inside the 20 an impressive 46% of the time.

ST's weak spot was returning kicks, but presumably that's why they brought in a KO specialist for the first time in ages.

patchick said:

What is this statistic, ranking the team "in special"?

The Patriots coverage teams were excellent last year. They ranked 3rd in the league on kickoffs, as measured by opponents' average starting position. They were 3rd in the league in average punt return length allowed, and pinned opponents inside the 20 an impressive 46% of the time.

ST's weak spot was returning kicks, but presumably that's why they brought in a KO specialist for the first time in ages.

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The problem with special teams coverage has been this preseason as opposed to last regular season, granted it is in fact preseason.

@Patchick, Brady6. The issue, at least, is clear enough, I think.

Is the gain that comes to the team from having specialists playing on special teams greater than the loss that comes from having those players taking the field on offense or defense when (as inevitably happens) starters go down?

I'd add another thing, though.

If you are managing your salary cap by having players play out their rookie contracts and then paying market rates for some but not all who reach the end of them (Hobbs, Samuel, Givens, etc.) it is valuable if you have a pipeline of young players who can take their places in due course. If you clog up your 53 with special teams specialists, you pay for that with having less room for developmental players.

(P.S. The PS doesn't play that role, since a PS player is available to any team that wants him on their 53.)

You'll notice Slater did not step on the field last night. That's because he's a special, Steve Tasker-level special teams player and an absolute roster lock.

Mike the Brit said:

@Patchick, Brady6. The issue, at least, is clear enough, I think.

Is the gain that comes to the team from having specialists playing on special teams greater than the loss that comes from having those players taking the field on offense or defense when (as inevitably happens) starters go down?

I'd add another thing, though.

If you are managing your salary cap by having players play out their rookie contracts and then paying market rates for some but not all who reach the end of them (Hobbs, Samuel, Givens, etc.) it is valuable if you have a pipeline of young players who can take their places in due course. If you clog up your 53 with special teams specialists, you pay for that with having less room for developmental players.

(P.S. The PS doesn't play that role, since a PS player is available to any team that wants him on their 53.)

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That's assuming you'd want a 6th WR like Quentin Sims who's not going to dress on any given week unless two guys in front of him get hurt rather than a guy like Matt Slater who is going to dress every week and contribute in an important and underrated phase of the game. And it's assuming that a guy like Quentin Sims is a better player than some guy you can sign off the street if your starter does go down (he's not; if one of the starters went down, they'd be on the phone with Donte Stallworth).

The truth is that there's a ton of marginal NFL players and most of them aren't worth the room to develop. It's not worth jettisoning contributors (or, in Slater's case, an All-Pro level contributor) for marginal developmental players who wouldn't be called upon even in the case of injury.

patchick said:

What is this statistic, ranking the team "in special"?

The Patriots coverage teams were excellent last year. They ranked 3rd in the league on kickoffs, as measured by opponents' average starting position. They were 3rd in the league in average punt return length allowed, and pinned opponents inside the 20 an impressive 46% of the time.

ST's weak spot was returning kicks, but presumably that's why they brought in a KO specialist for the first time in ages.

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Yeah, that had me :confused4: as well. The only site I'm aware of that measures and ranks all special teams performance is footballoutsiders, who had NE as one of the elite special teams units, ranking 4th in the league.

patchick said:

What is this statistic, ranking the team "in special"?

The Patriots coverage teams were excellent last year. They ranked 3rd in the league on kickoffs, as measured by opponents' average starting position. They were 3rd in the league in average punt return length allowed, and pinned opponents inside the 20 an impressive 46% of the time.

ST's weak spot was returning kicks, but presumably that's why they brought in a KO specialist for the first time in ages.

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This is where I got the 13th rank from, as far as the coverage goes, I felt they were ok last season, they gave up a few big returns in the playoffs, and this preseason they have been awful. All I'm really getting at is the ends doesn't appear to be justifying the means in terms of our investment of roster spots into special teams.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4739354/pats-special-teams-finish-13th

"The Patriots did not finish atop any of Gosselin's categories, but did allow the highest opponent punt average at 50.3 yards per punt."

Allow? What does an opponent's gross punt average have to do with your own special teams unit?

Mike the Brit said:

@Patchick, Brady6. The issue, at least, is clear enough, I think.

Is the gain that comes to the team from having specialists playing on special teams greater than the loss that comes from having those players taking the field on offense or defense when (as inevitably happens) starters go down?

I'd add another thing, though.

If you are managing your salary cap by having players play out their rookie contracts and then paying market rates for some but not all who reach the end of them (Hobbs, Samuel, Givens, etc.) it is valuable if you have a pipeline of young players who can take their places in due course. If you clog up your 53 with special teams specialists, you pay for that with having less room for developmental players.

(P.S. The PS doesn't play that role, since a PS player is available to any team that wants him on their 53.)

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First off let me say, excellent post, it was direct and polite at the same time. Secondly I agree with you completely and I have no issue with special teams players being on the roster, I even have spent much of my time advocating for a player like Cole to be on the 53 man roster, I guess my concern is when is it to many players, and most importantly with all these players how are we holding them accountable, like we would hold a QB, RB, DE, DB accountable for their contributions.

Are we really having a discussion about cutting Slater in favor of Sims.

Look, like has been said....... I think maybe Sims earned a spot on the practice squad, but not sure much else. He's a solid development project, but lets not start cutting all-pros to make room for him.

Slater is a "special" type impact player at his job. He can be emergently thrown in at WR if we need him, but he's on this team as strictly an impact STer. Not as a back-up that fills a useful role on ST.

I've watched him all preseason. He ran good routes but Mallet and Tebow didn't throw a catchable ball his way until last night.

I stopped reading when you mentioned Slater. Clearly, you have little understanding of the importance of special teams.

PatsFan2 said:

I didn't want to put this in the Aaron Dopson thread...But this kid Quentin Sims seems to be raising alot of eye-brows with his play. I watched him the last couple of weeks and even read good things about him in Training Camp. Could the Patriots possibly struck gold three times with Sudfeld - Thomkins and now Sims? I have said this before *don't shoot the messenger* but as much as I know Matthew Slater have a cult following around here. Wouldn't we rather a guy who can play WR in a pinch rather than one who Can't? We also have some *Fragiles* at the position we know their names. This is based on the Quentin Sims/Matthew Slater comparison. I'll also add Based on the eyeball test it seems to me that right now that Quentin Sims is much better WR than Dopson no knock on Dopson I like him. But a UDFA at times can outplay or turn out better than a guy who was a high Draft pick not impossible. BB job will not be easy I see some Tough what the... decisions coming that might shock some people food for thought.

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Sims is a poor man's Bam Childress...seriuosly..wtf are people thinking.

primetime said:

That's assuming you'd want a 6th WR like Quentin Sims who's not going to dress on any given week unless two guys in front of him get hurt rather than a guy like Matt Slater who is going to dress every week and contribute in an important and underrated phase of the game. And it's assuming that a guy like Quentin Sims is a better player than some guy you can sign off the street if your starter does go down (he's not; if one of the starters went down, they'd be on the phone with Donte Stallworth).

The truth is that there's a ton of marginal NFL players and most of them aren't worth the room to develop. It's not worth jettisoning contributors (or, in Slater's case, an All-Pro level contributor) for marginal developmental players who wouldn't be called upon even in the case of injury.

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With respect, I laid out what I see as the issue -- how you balance different considerations. Your response is to attack me by taking a view about the particular balance. Personally, I was extremely impressed with Sims, for what it's worth, but can well see that he'd lose out in a numbers game. It's one thing to keep a whole slew of special-teams-specialists -- the Sergio Browns, James Ihedigbos etc., etc -- and another not to have even one: Slater. I'd be astonished if the idea of cutting Slater was even entertained for a minute by the Patriots.

Brady6 said:

First off let me say, excellent post, it was direct and polite at the same time. Secondly I agree with you completely and I have no issue with special teams players being on the roster, I even have spent much of my time advocating for a player like Cole to be on the 53 man roster, I guess my concern is when is it to many players, and most importantly with all these players how are we holding them accountable, like we would hold a QB, RB, DE, DB accountable for their contributions.

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On the strength of what I saw last night, I have completely changed my tune about Marquice Cole. A Patriots' defensive back trailing his man, turning round when the ball is in the air and making a perfectly timed one-handed leap to bat the ball away? How often have the back-up cornerbacks done that? In fact, how many times have starting cornerbacks failed to? I don't know what he did in the off-season, but this looked like a different player to me -- and he was active in other good plays too. I'm delighted that he's on the field; fully worth his place, to what I can tell, and the special teams a bonus.

Nunchucks said:

Sims is a poor man's Bam Childress...seriuosly..wtf are people thinking.

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I strongly disagree. Of course, the evidence of one game is minimal, but here's how I see it.

Everyone who gets to this level as a wide receiver (fringes of the NFL) has the ability to make a catch that's breathtakingly athletic and makes you shake your head. The difference is consistency and reliability -- being in the right place at the right time, making plays again and again, under pressure, when they're needed.

Sims made not one but two outstanding plays last night, catching the ball when it was closely contested by the DB in what were (by the standards of a pre-season game) pressure situations. I don't remember Taylor Price, Mr Hi-Top Fade (sorry buddy, senior moment there), Brandon Tate or even Bam Childress doing that.

But yes, I realize he's behind a load of other young wide receivers. Thompson has looked very, very strong. Boyce had a great touchdown and they're not going to give up on Dobson this soon. So he probably won't make it and will get taken by a wide-receiver-needy team (not the Jets, I hope). Still, to call him a "poor man's Bam Childress" needs a response.

I think Mr. Sims just played his way into a practice squad job, whether on the Patriots or elsewhere. I hope it will be with the Patriots, but he might prefer to be with a team that is older at his position.

I agree. We have our four wide receivers for the next four years (barring unforeseen circumstances).

Fencer said:

I think Mr. Sims just played his way into a practice squad job, whether on the Patriots oe elsewhere. I hope it will be with the Patriots, but he might prefer to be with a team that is older at his position.

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We've been hearing good things about Quinton Sims pretty much the whole summer, and the old "eye test" would lead one to believe that he's definitely worth trying hard to keep around.

A guy like that could be enormous for the 2014 season + into the future, or he could even be key should someone get injured this year. I would hope that they will do everything they can to get him to the PS and give him a nice PS salary as an incentive to hang around here.

Last yr we kept 4 TEs. This yr we are down to 3. Maybe we can carry an extra WR.

In any event, in my book Sims can help the Pats more than a certain 3rd QB. So there.....