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If you were to read these stats, what would you think?


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what is with the cherry picking of stats? if you want to make a stat comparison i understand, but use ALL stats

how about the interceptions?, or ST like the blocked punt? lets include penalties just for kicks

If you read my first comment, all I asked was if you read those stats, only, which team would you think won the game.

Didn't suggest anything more, or less.
 
so we want billy o back? Please
 
The play calling was so-so, but far from the reason we lost. In addition to the overthrows, there were a lot of dropped passes as well. The entire passing game just looked out of sync for 3.5 qtrs. Sure, a couple more play action passes would have been nice, but Josh M wasn't out there throwing or dropping the balls.

Oh, in addition, you have to also give credit to Arizona. When Brady wasn't overthrowing or receivers dropping passes, their defense did play well.

Side note, was the blocked punt considered running into the kicker? I'm no expert on the rules, but was he allowed to take out Mesko after he blocked the punt?
 
Excuse me. Who is trashing players. I don't see how, in any way, you can think that.

The original post merely asked a question that if you, or anyone else, had not seen the game, knew nothing about what transpired, and only saw those statistics, who would you, or anyone else, think won the game?

Who is trashing the players? I merely pointed out that, based on those stats, the Patriots would have been thought to have won the game.

Perhaps you should re-read it.

Linda, you are correct. Joshie McDouchie was awful.
 
The play calling was so-so, but far from the reason we lost. In addition to the overthrows, there were a lot of dropped passes as well. The entire passing game just looked out of sync for 3.5 qtrs. Sure, a couple more play action passes would have been nice, but Josh M wasn't out there throwing or dropping the balls.

Oh, in addition, you have to also give credit to Arizona. When Brady wasn't overthrowing or receivers dropping passes, their defense did play well.

Side note, was the blocked punt considered running into the kicker? I'm no expert on the rules, but was he allowed to take out Mesko after he blocked the punt?

Dropped passes mostly by Joshie's guy Brandon Lloyd.
 
However, what I attribute the major reason for the loss loss to is Josh McDaniels. Sure, there were some bad plays run by the players, but with those numbers, and knowing the end result, it appears to me that the Pats moved the football very well except when it got into the Cardinals half of the field, and for that, I would have to blame the offensive coordinator, who for whatever reason, got outcoached when it mattered the most.

Settling for FOUR field goals is totally unacceptable. And, from memory, I cant recall any particular players in which the players made glaring mistakes that stopped them from going on for touchdowns, instead.

I, for one, thought that McDaniels' play calling was horrendous, pitiful, and no better than high school level.

And, the continued use of the shotgun formation is hurting much more than helping. They may as well write a telegram to the opposition telling them not to worry about us running the ball...

There is time and a place for the shotgun, and using it on almost every offensive play is getting out of hand.
McDaniels can't block for offensive lineman Donald Thomas and Marcus Cannon from the sideline. McDaniels can't block for tight end Michael Hoomanawanui on short yardage situations either from the sideline.

McDaniels can't catch footballs for wide receivers Brandon Lloyd and Wes Welker from the sideline.

McDaniels can't throw the football from the sideline for Tom Brady with Rob Gronkowski open for the bomb in the endzone.

Last time I looked, Josh McDaniels does not coach special teams either.

This message board does not need another NEM redux!
 
The play calling was so-so, but far from the reason we lost. In addition to the overthrows, there were a lot of dropped passes as well. The entire passing game just looked out of sync for 3.5 qtrs. Sure, a couple more play action passes would have been nice, but Josh M wasn't out there throwing or dropping the balls.

Oh, in addition, you have to also give credit to Arizona. When Brady wasn't overthrowing or receivers dropping passes, their defense did play well.

Side note, was the blocked punt considered running into the kicker? I'm no expert on the rules, but was he allowed to take out Mesko after he blocked the punt?

that is correct, if you touch the ball, you can hit the kicker (happened on that block), however if you hit the punter without touching the ball, its a foul (to everyone except this reffing crew that is)
 
Side note, was the blocked punt considered running into the kicker? I'm no expert on the rules, but was he allowed to take out Mesko after he blocked the punt?

Once the ball is tipped by a defender, the running into the kicker rule does not apply any longer.
 
The play calling was so-so, but far from the reason we lost. In addition to the overthrows, there were a lot of dropped passes as well. The entire passing game just looked out of sync for 3.5 qtrs. Sure, a couple more play action passes would have been nice, but Josh M wasn't out there throwing or dropping the balls.

Oh, in addition, you have to also give credit to Arizona. When Brady wasn't overthrowing or receivers dropping passes, their defense did play well.

Side note, was the blocked punt considered running into the kicker? I'm no expert on the rules, but was he allowed to take out Mesko after he blocked the punt?

As long as he makes contact with the football, hitting the kicker is ok unless it is deemed to be intentional.
 
Given the success Ridey was having early on and the Cards stuffing the box to stop the run on 1st down, how bout a couple of play action passes?

Ermmm...there were some? More than a couple?

Seriously...people are both stupid and naive to criticise McDaniels. I didn't realise all you guys had a list of Arizona's defensive tendencies, and a plotted chart of all the play calls the coaches made on offence so you could see what they were setting up :rolleyes:

Simple fact is we were out executed. Mankins admitted they and a terrible final
Practice...you don't think that could of had a lot to do with it.
 
Thanks guys, that's what I figured (about the blocked punt). Just wanted to confirm it
 
There is always a need for a scapegoat any time this team plays poorly...

Could McDaniels called a better game??, yes..but he does not make the plays.
Could the punt have gotten off quicker, yes??.. but not sure about the snap or if it was a missed block.
Could the holding call on Gronk be bogus??, possibly..
Could the snap, hold and kick by Gostowski been better??, yes.

The reality is that there were not enough plays made on the field, and there is plenty of blame to go around.. to just blame McDaniels is short sighted and narrow..

From my view the Offense looked uncomfortable and ackward out there yesterday, and never really got in sync until the end.. why did it take 55 minutes to get to that place??? Special teams looked similar..
 
This is the first Patriots loss since the 2009 Ravens debacle that the Patriots defense had no fault in it.

2011 SB-could not get Eli off the field
2011 Giants-defense chokes
2011 Steelers-could not get Roethlisberger off the field
2011 Bills-horrible defense
2010 Divisional Jets-defense choked at times we needed it most
2010 Browns-defense gets owned by Hillis.
2010 Jets-Sanchez scores 28 points.
2009 Wildcard Ravens-total team implosion
 
Stop being a nice guy. The play calling was pitiful. I hated McDaniels before and I hate him even more this go around.
Did you hate him after the Titans game? The Patriots lost a game. They played poorly and still had a chance to win at the death. If you want to blame anybody have a whinge about the OL. They were dominated. It's done and dusted now. On to Baltimore.
 
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I blame them all, from the coaches down to the last player. That really was a team effort.

I might throw some compliments to the Cards too. They deserved the win.
 
I want to go back to being the underdogs in most games. I loved that in the early 00's.
 
There is nothing I hate more than the "blame the coordinator" game everyone plays after a loss. Here are things that played big roles in the loss today that McDaniels had absolutely nothing to do with:


  • Brady's ball getting tipped at the line of scrimmage and intercepted on the first offensive play.
  • Hernandez hurting his ankle on the third offensive play of the game and losing him for the rest of the game and much longer.
  • A block punt that gave the Cards a two yard TD drive.
  • Stephen Gregory hitting the ball carrier two yards out of bounds that gave the Cards excellent field position on their only TD drive of any significant length.
  • Brady overthrowing a wide open Gronkowski in the endzone on a deep pass.
  • Welker dropping a crucial third down reception that hit him in his hands.
  • Gronkowski holding (or the refs calling BS holding call) on what would have been the winning TD at the end of the game.
  • The BS false start on Aiken on the snap of the field goal attempt in the second quarter that if the call was correctly called as defensive offsides, the Pats would have had first and goal on the 6 yard line.
There are tons of reasons why the Pats lost this game. The coaching staff was just one of them.

Great list. I just rewatched the game. I would add the following moments as huge points in the game as well:

- Right after the Pats got a fumble from Kolb and took over at their own 48 with 3:04 left in the 2nd quarter, they ran the following plays:

1-10 (N48) - fake end-around, looking for a deep ball, Brady gets buried for a 10-yard sack
2-20 (N38) - false start penalty on Thomas
2-25 (N33) - another pass play, Arizona ran a simple stunt and the Pats' OL looked pathetic, Brady gets sacked for a 7-yard loss

So instead of producing points, the Pats went completely backward, ruining excellent field position. In fact, on two Arizona turnovers, both of which gave the Pats the ball in great field position, the Patriots netted *ZERO* points from them. That's hard to believe.


- First drive of the 3rd quarter, after a great play from Brady-to-Welker, and then another first down, they had a 1st and 10 from the Cardinals' 33. But then from there, Brady threw three straight incompletions, only one of which was even a decent throw. Settled for a FG but that drive went from great to nothing in a heartbeat.


- After the Pats gave up the short TD following the blocked punt, they went on a really nice drive, taking the ball down to the Arizona 30, where they faced a 3rd and 6. Already in field goal position, what do they do? Run a pitch to the right to Woodhead, and Thomas whiffed completely on a block, and the result was a 9-yard loss. So not only did they not get a first down, they were taken out of field goal range, and they ended up with zero points.

- Arizona's next possession, after an obvious holding call set them back for a 2nd and 18 from their 28, Kolb hits Heap for 28 yards, plus a personal foul penalty on Gregory. Blame Gregory, fine, but if he doesn't get called for that, they had a personal foul on Spikes for roughing the passer anyway. A nice little 43 yard gain on 2nd and 18. Suddenly the ball is down to the Patriot 29. Quite a change of field position.

Now, I will say this about those penalties. Gregory's play was pretty dumb. But there's no way the call should have been made against Spikes. They ruled it a blow to the head, but there was absolutely no blow to the head at all. Just re-watched it five times. No contact with the head at all.

Moreover, the Pats should have had Kolb for a sack. Love and Ninkovich had good shots at him, but they let him slip through. Just a terrible play all the way around. And it was huge. Instead of a 10-yard sack it was a 43-yard gain (penalty included). Enormous.


- Responding to the second Arizona TD, the Pats immediately zip down the field...completions to Lloyd, Gronkowski, and Lloyd makes it 2nd and 1 from the Cardinal 39. Again, getting ready to score. But then an incompletion (Lloyd drop) and then a 4-yard loss by Ridley on 3rd and 1 forces another punt. Ugh....


- Midway through the fourth quarter, the Pats again moving the ball, have it at the Arizona 35, 1st and 10. Brady throws incomplete to Welker, Woodhead gets no gain, and then Brady throws incomplete to Gronkowski, and have to settle for a long FG.


- Two-point conversion play. I'm sorry, but if Gronk is going to get called for the hold on the Woodhead TD, then they *have* to call a penalty on Rhodes for holding onto Gronkowski for the entire route.


- Last drive after miraculously getting the ball back. Obviously, the holding penalty was just......unbelievable. But then, after a nice gain by Welker put the ball on the 18, I didn't have a problem with the Patriots playing it conservatively there. The key was the false start by Gronk. It would have been a chip shot 35 yard field goal from the 18, but the penalty pushed them back. So after the penalty, I would have tried to advance the ball. But really, Ghost had had a tremendous game up to that point, so I can understand not wanting to risk a turnover and putting the game in the hands (er...feet) of Gostkowski. Until that last kick, for his career he's made 137 of 158 field goals from 49 yards and in. That's 86.7% accuracy, for those of you scoring at home. The Patriots went with the percentages. It didn't work out.


So many plays left out on the field that preceded Gostkowski's last miss. If they play like this again, they'll get steamrolled by Baltimore. But I think you don't see too many poor performances like this by the Patriots in back-to-back games.
 
[*]The BS false start on Aiken on the snap of the field goal attempt in the second quarter that if the call was correctly called as defensive offsides, the Pats would have had first and goal on the 6 yard line.
[/LIST]

That was definitely a huge play in the game, but also the right call. Aiken had the ball in position to snap it and he moved the ball - clear as day on the replay. Four guys jumped on the Cardinals. The refs got that one right.

It also did not make a difference since Gostkowski made that FG from 5 yards further.

Arizona's defense did an outstanding job yesterday. That's the main reason for the loss. Ken Whisenhunt has himself a tremendous defense - they held Seattle to 16 in a week one win and then Seattle went out and hung 25 on Dallas - also a team with good defense. Then the Cards held the Patriots to 18. Those guys and their schemes are excellent.

My sense as the game wore on was that maybe the playbook is too big. The Patriots almost never ran a play that worked for them twice.
 
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Not sure why we need to give out blame. Instead, I think we should give props to the Cardinals. They came here and executed their game plan tremendously. Now they've won 9 of their last 11. I recall a Pats team that kept on winning (and winning ugly) while getting no respect from the NFL media.
 
Stop being a nice guy. The play calling was pitiful. I hated McDaniels before and I hate him even more this go around.

It wasn't pitiful. For the most part, it was balanced. But there were a few plays in there where the ball should have been in Brady's hands instead of on the ground. But, the way the O-Line is playing, I can't really say that I would fault Josh too much for that either. That was some of the most pathetic O-Line play I have seen on this team for a number of years (early 2008 before Neal came back is the only time period that comes to mind immediately) and should put an end to the "COACH 'EM DANTE!" school of thought that has been going on here for quite some time. Dante is a good coach, but all the good coaching in the world isn't going to matter if the OL can't stop the opposing defense from smacking Brady around in the backfield due to something such as a simple stunt.
 
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