Some Patriots fans need to get over themselves

dante828 said:

Did you read my post, I wasn't blaiming the refs, I was complaining about bad officiating, which should annoy everyone. the Pats lost because they crumpled under pressure for the first time in five years, and the Broncos made the most of their opportunities. Doesn't change the fact that Bailey did tug at the facemask, so it would have been a 15 yarder.

Second, from what I can tell you have never acknowledged that the offense was offside on the field goal, which they were. And, you can't tell me that wasn't a critical miss call as well. Still, wouldn't be there without a great tackle from your kicker, and a great 50 yard kick by Elam. Denver made the most of the turnovers and miss calls, good for them, but that isn't going to stop anyone from complaining legitimately about crappy officiating, nor should it.

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Ok, I see this is going to go nowhere, so I'll just spell it out, if you guys make the plays at the critical junctions of this ball game, you win this game...bottom line.....that missed Vinitieri FG....never would have happened if Brady didn't overthrow his receiver the play before....the Bailey INT....the Brown muffed punt return.....all more legitimate than phantom holding calls and penalties which the few idiots on this board have been using.

I think the key difference is Colts fans blame the refs and Manning blames his o-line. Steeler fans blamed Cowher last year.

I blame our own incompetence (4 huge turnovers and a big missed FG) for the loss. Because with out that incompetence, Denver doesn't win that game. There were some questionable calls IMO, but those were minor in comparison to turnovers which were 90 percent of the story last night. It wasn't Plummer, Brady, Bell, Bruschi, Anderson, Branch, Rod Smith or Denver's outstanding defense, as it should have been.

It was turnovers, some of which were barely forced. You give a team 4 or 5 golden opportunities to win and they will usually win. The Browns could have done what Denver did last night given the same opportunities. Lots of teams could have. It was just bad football.

So in essence, bully for them for taking advantage of mistakes and good luck the rest of the way. Denver now becomes the favorite to win it all IMO. But it's hard to salute greatness where there is none.

broncoted said:

Ok, I see this is going to go nowhere, so I'll just spell it out, if you guys make the plays at the critical junctions of this ball game, you win this game...bottom line.....that missed Vinitieri FG....never would have happened if Brady didn't overthrow his receiver the play before....the Bailey INT....the Brown muffed punt return.....all more legitimate than phantom holding calls and penalties which the few idiots on this board have been using.

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It isn't going anywhere since you aren't reading what I am writing. I didn't claim phantom holding penalties (which is bs because they always go both ways), I claim there was a non-call on offensive offsides, which clearly happened. And you are right, Brady was off all night, his over throw was awful, and Vinatierri missing just as bad. If you are going to quote me, at least do so legitimately, I said the PATS CRUMPLED UNDER THE PRESSURE and the BRONCOS MADE ALL THE RIGHT PLAYS WHEN THEY HAD TO (for the third time). That doesn't change the fact that I have a legitimate gripe with officiating, which though didn't cause the lost, did play a role, sometimes a significant one. I am really sad that the officials gave Denver more opportunities to win, and sadder that the Pats couldn't stop Denver and then crumpled when they had a chance to make up for it. Ok, you are right Pats lost, I admit, it, but please don't call me or anyone else who complains about officiating an idiot when we have legitimate complaints.

Didn't tug on it?

broncoted said:

Ok, Bailey facemasked on that long pass...guess what, it was a five yarder anyway as he didnt tug on the mask...that was a critical call? I just think blaming the refs is just something for the weak.

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Didn't tug on it.....he jerked the helmet 2 times at the least.....might want to review that tape....that should have been a 15 yard penalty man......I'm not taking anything away from your team....they did the things that they had to to win....nothing spectacular....but with us shooting ourselves in the foot....didn't need to do too much.......

pats1 said:

This is exactly why I want to finish this tape breakdown quickly. I want answers.

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You won't find them there. This is a philosophical discussion. Is every team who beats you a better team? Or is it a matter of whether the team that beats you was highly regarded anyway? Does how they played vs how you played or incompetent refereeing factor in?

All I know is this is not a team known for putting the ball on the ground or throwing INT's in the playoffs. Just like Denver is not known for being a team that can't run the ball or generate points on offense. They certainly made fewer mistakes than we did last night, but I'm not sure that makes them a better team, or even one that played all that much better last night.

If Indy won today would they be the better team? I think not. Even with their league provided 12th man on the field they couldn't get it done. Denver made better use of that 12th man than Indy did. Don't know what that makes them - lucky, opportunistic, but not necessarily a better team.

huskeralk said:

I'm not naming names and not saying it's all of us. The guilty ones know who I'm talking about. Except for the one that has me on his "I refuse to listen to a differing opinion" list.

The past 4 years, all we have heard from our opponents is things like..."The better team didn't win today." And of course out flew a million "No Respect" threads. Well ya know what? This game played out like alot of our games did. Our offense had it's way with the Broncos defense UNTIL it mattered. Then they made plays that broke our backs.

Yes, there were bad calls and I won't deny that. The thing is, we have taken advantage of plenty of those bad calls ourselves. It's hypocritical for you to start griping about it now and anyone with any common sense is going to call you on it.

So in closing, I congratulate the Broncos on a great win. I also would request that you either.

A- Nut up and just acknowledge the Broncos victory as just that. A victory, not us gift wrapping a win for them.

B- Shut the hell up. You're embarrassing this great fan base and even greater team.

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Most post-game player comments I've seen agree with your analysis, and for what is worth, so do I.

dante828 said:

I'm new here, but i really have to say that the only people who need to get over themselves are the Denver fans who are still here a full day after victory trying to claim Pats fans are idiots or whiners for bringing up legitimate issues about the game. I started posting because I was really annoyed with the Pats poor play and the bad officiating. That doesn't make me a bad fan, it just makes me an observant one, more observant then any Denver fans who refuse to see the other officiating problems other then the bad PI call. There was the Davis facemask (which was obvious, though not as critical) and the offensive offside non call on the field goal (which was critical). I'll give you the Bailey goal line call, that could have gone either way. But that makes three horrible, potentially game changing calls that went Denver's way, and you can't tell me that wasn't significant, or that I should not be annoyed about it and should pretend like it didn't happen the next day when I discuss it. In all seriousness, I am not trying to offend you, nor is anyone else here, we are just discussing what we think were problems in the game. You are damn right, Denver won because they were able to make the most of their opportunities and the Pats choked under the pressure. Every Pats fan here acknowledges that, I am sorry if it offends you when we acknowledge a legitimate defeat. Get over yourselves.

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Maybe Broncos fans are hoping we'll tell them that their team dominated us and that we think they'll win it all.

Sorry, if they're looking for validation from me they won't get it, they'll just have to believe what they saw with their own eyes, as will I.

I know what "I" saw.

SoonerPatriot said:

I think the key difference is Colts fans blame the refs and Manning blames his o-line. Steeler fans blamed Cowher last year.

I blame our own incompetence (4 huge turnovers and a big missed FG) for the loss. Because with out that incompetence, Denver doesn't win that game. There were some questionable calls IMO, but those were minor in comparison to turnovers which were 90 percent of the story last night. You give a team 4 or 5 golden opportunities to win and they will usually win. The Browns could have done what Denver did last night given the same opportunities. Lots of teams could have.

So in essence, bully for them for taking advantage of mistakes, good luck the rest of the way, but it's hard to salute greatness where there is none.

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Basically well put and for the most part :agree:

The only thing I'd say is the calls were more than questionable and probably were more like 40% of the problem. But it all comes down to the turnovers in the final analysis. Don't make them and the worst of the bad officiating goes away. (Although after watching the Indy game who knows - the zebras might have found a way to make bad calls on their own.)

This discussion is actually pretty simple.

Remember ALL the talk before the game, especially with the trolls? It was more or less agreed upon that to win, Denver needed to move the ball well on the ground to open up Jake's play action and mobility on the ground. Denver's secondary also needed to stop Brady something awful in order to give the offense the edge, and they needed to pressure him into mistakes.

Well, what happened?

Denver's rushing game was dead in the water all game.

Jake did not play well: he could have played worse, yes, but for every good pass that he made he threw another into the turf beside an open receiver despite almost no pressure (one of NEs biggest shortcomings).

Brady was not stopped by the secondary, nor was he bullied by the pressure. Until the Fumbilitis started, he was doing just fine. Neither pick was caused by pressure. Until said pick, NE was driving with relative ease.


Anyway, the point of all this is that yes, Denver did win. Yes, they did a lot right: they were very consistent with the defense, they capitalized on turnovers, they wasted nothing. Jake didn't cave either. They were 'just good enough'.

Overall, I'd say New England played a better game. You'll notice I say this without citing any penalties, which did have an impact. This doesn't mean they deserved to win or anything like that, all it means is that Denver did not play great either: they just didn't make mistakes.

Now, is anyone going to call me a biased one sided rabid Patriot fan just because I come to this conclusion? I'm sick of being called names just because some "idiot" (your word, not mine) feels the need to name the Broncos God solely from the final score.

P.S. Zoolander was awesome, but the part you seem to like was just plain creepy, not funny.

Ya know, I really didn't wanna go down that road today. Pain way to close to the heart. Wanted to bottle it up inside, let it fester, until I exploded in a violent and irrational manner. Oh, well.

I take it back. Now that I've had time to cool down a bit and have been forced into this catharsis(sp?), hats off to the Donks. For all their lack of anything productive last night, they also only made one mistake. One. Like I said earlier, had we not made mistakes, we would be in Detroit, playing Carolina. Again. They protected the ball. Football 101 and a BB basic must. They won because they remembered that.

Richter said:

I concur that he needs to can it. That was a game clearly decided by the refs, and the Steelers-Colts game nearly was too. The refs have been awful this season, they cost the Patriots horribly in their game, and damn near did the same to Pittsburgh. It's not whining or excuse making when it's true.

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Aw, look at the poor little baby! Are you wetting yourself, baby? Waaaaaaaah! Waaaaaaah!

WOOHOO!! My thread got moved to the interleague forum. :rocker:

BelichickFan said:

Maybe you need to get over yourself because you aren't always right either. The Patriots did give the game to Denver. 100%. Denver was the better team but only by being a zero while the Patriots were a negative. The fact that the Patriots have won games in a similar manner before is irrelevant.

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And he's a closet Jets fan.

Michael said:

And he's a closet Jets fan.

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Not even close but you can keep thinking it. It is funny however that some of you are acting just like them.