It is OK to question WTF is going on, right?

[Sicilian]

If this were the Jets doing to their CB corps what the Patriots are doing, you'd be laughing your ass off and calling their front office incompetent.

But that's because the Jets have a terrible track record. That can't be discounted when it comes to things like evaluating cuts and signings.

 

[marcus]

MoLewis:

Your last comment was completely predictable.


Unless posters don't agree with 100% of the moves of the front office and "experts" like yourself on this board...you have to find a new team???

I would not expect teh Patriots to win the super bowl every year or for the FO to be perfect. BB had an awful game for the Super Bowl last year, that won't stop me for always pulling for the Patriots and wanting teh best for them.


A big part of the purpose of this board I thought was supposed to be to give opinions...thats all

 

[richpats]

MoLewis:

Your last comment was completely predictable.


Unless posters don't agree with 100% of the moves of the front office and "experts" like yourself on this board...you have to find a new team???

I would not expect teh Patriots to win the super bowl every year or for the FO to be perfect. BB had an awful game for the Super Bowl last year, that won't stop me for always pulling for the Patriots and wanting teh best for them.


A big part of the purpose of this board I thought was supposed to be to give opinions...thats all

Post of the year.

 

[emoney_33]

There is not a better coach in the NFL right now than Bill Belicheck. But he makes some really weird personel moves from time to time. In fact, their organization has been 0-3 since 2004. The Pats fail to realize that this isn't 2001 anymore where they can sign chumps and magically win a superbowl. That year was a fluke, the talent around the NFL was not as good as it is today yet they still keep going the cheap route. Way to try to replace Samuel with Fernando Bryant and Jason Webster; look how that worked out! Their plan backfired in '05 and '06 but '07 was a fantastic year for the front office. The point is, if they expect to win a superbowl, their going to have spend a little more money on players than scrubs listed above. Look for their plan to really backfire this season. I have said it over and over again, their secondary is going to get torched.

OH my 0-3? REALLY damnit. We are just as bad as the Falcons and Chiefs! Whatever shall we do.

In your mind there is no salary cap, there is no scheme, there are no weaknesses to those who succeed doing a certain thing. If you were the GM you would have a team with 90% of its money in 10 guys and then have no idea what to do with the other 43.

It is far far far more complicated than "ZOMG ASANTE GOT 10 INTS, GIVE HIM THE MONEY!" "ZOMG AV KICKS CLUTCH LIKE FIELD GOALS, GIVE HIM THE MONEY!" "ZOMG BRANCH HAS THIS MAGICAL RAPPORT WITH BRADY, GIVE HIM THE MONEY!" "ZOMG WOODY IS AN AMAZING CENTER, PAY THE MAN!"


The patriots front office is by far more intelligent and knowledgeable about an NFL roster than you or I. They give the money to those who really deserve it. Over the years they have proven to be very very good judges of value. Samuel is limited in what he can do, yet you want to break the bank to sign a guy that will force us to keep playing zone coverages and keeping deep safety help in important situations to take advantage of Samuel's risk-taking QB-reading instincts? Yea I can see the patriots doing that... NEVER, even without a salary cap.

 

[BradyToMoss]

MoLewis:

Your last comment was completely predictable.


Unless posters don't agree with 100% of the moves of the front office and "experts" like yourself on this board...you have to find a new team???

I would not expect teh Patriots to win the super bowl every year or for the FO to be perfect. BB had an awful game for the Super Bowl last year, that won't stop me for always pulling for the Patriots and wanting teh best for them.


A big part of the purpose of this board I thought was supposed to be to give opinions...thats all

Tell me about, I've gotten blasted for expressing concerns over Bryant, some of these recent FO moves, etc, but here, we are only allowed to express good, constructive opinions...........do you want some blue KoolAid? If not, we might have to ask you to leave

 

[emoney_33]

The point I'm trying to make with that statement is that every move the Pats make, these fans think it's the right move. Everyone makes mistakes and some people on this board fail to realize that Bill and Scott aren't perfect. Whatever they have done the past three seasons, has not worked. They need to make some changes in personel decisions.

No one is perfect, but none of us have the credentials to be able to judge exactly what is and isn't the "right" move. There is a whole lot more factors that what we see on the surface to any decision. There are many intelligent minds at work behind the scenes on each decision. We fans do not have the ability to formulate a proper argument for or against a specific move because we lack all of the facts.

Missing facts open up arguments for things as false as the earth being flat.

 

[Pats67]

But this shouldn't stop people from pointing out obvious blunders made by this front office. It's one thing to give the benefit of the doubt, but it's another thing to act as a rubber stamp and apologist. We've got a lot of people on this board that whine just to whine, and we've got a lot of others who might as well be on the team payroll because they've sold their soul.

There's even more who act that like the .730 winning percentage and four Super Bowl appearances over the last eight years just didn't happen. They go on and on about "obvious blunders" as if they haven't been vastly outnumbered by successful choices. Anyone who argues differently - suggesting, for example, that the Patriots have been right far more than they've been wrong, and that is ALL any reasonable person has a right to ask for - is immediately dismissed an an "apologist." Now I learn today that by not solely focusing on the 27% of the time that Bill Belichick is wrong, I have "sold my soul." Which is so ridiculous a notion that I can't possibly be offended by it. It's too strange.

But by all means, let's talk about Duane Starks again. Maybe throw in a side of Monty Beisel. Remind us again that Belichick isn't perfect, even though the 27%'ers are the only one who I've heard suggest that.

 

[BPF]

I know it is BB and Pioloi...but BB first proved to us during the Super Bowl last year that he is no longer perfect.

When they let Samuel and Gay go, we said he has a plan.

The free agent signings have been awful.... Webster and Lynch and Victor Hobson an F...right...

Backup quarterback....sorry....Casell is not adequate.


the CB situation now is just downright ridiculous. Hobbs and an untested rookie...and when one of them gets injured forget about pass defense.



Offensive line...signing Mark Levoir is that the answer?

Way too many serious questions going into this year...far more than in past years....just starting to feel like the Patriots may have "jumped the shark"

This is comical.

Samuel and Gay were not worth the contracts they signed so the Pats said thanks and see you later. Samuel will not be the same player in Philly as he was here, in any case that's irrelevant but thought I'd mention it. Gay was extremely overpaid.

Now as far as the Bryant, Webster, Hobson, etc signings. Those were 1 yr prove it deals, which is good business, and they obviously didn't prove it so they're gone.

If you remember going into the offseason the OL was a strength, despite the SB. We had guys that have played together for some time all signed to at least 2009, in fact I remember Mike Reiss writing an article on how it's a big strength for the team. I don't think the Pats could have forseen the run of injuries on the OL and if they could how many OL can you go to camp with??

The backup QB situation is fine and all those recomendations to sign the guys that were released by other teams are lateral moves talent wise for QBs that would be behind in the knowledge of the system.

As far as the CB situation goes, I know you wrote this before the O'Neal signing, there was no one in FA worth signing this past offseason and Philly wanted too much for Sheppard as evidenced by the fact that he is still there eventhough there is a CB shortage in the league. What is really the difference between Sheppard and O'Neal, both have had 2 "off" yrs since 2005 so why give up a draft pick for Lito?

You can't panic and overpay players in the NFL because you'll be stuck with that contract on your cap. I think the Pats had a solid offseason, the draft was a great success and that's how you build a team in a strong draft class and inject youth into a team. Let the season play out, Mayo and Wheatley look like solid players who will only improve as the season goes on. That's not even mentioning the contributions of other rookies that will play better the last 8 games then they will the 1st 8 games.

 

[BelichickFan]

They're messing around with the botton of the roster. Big deal.

 

[Pats67]

Post of the year.

Jet fan, right?

 

[Deus Irae]

But that's because the Jets have a terrible track record. That can't be discounted when it comes to things like evaluating cuts and signings.

Naturally. But bad moves are bad moves, and questionable moves are questionable moves. The difference should be the amount of slack given and the confidence that 'damage' can be repaired, not the absence of questioning and concern.

 

[Sicilian]

Tell me about, I've gotten blasted for expressing concerns over Bryant, some of these recent FO moves, etc, but here, we are only allowed to express good, constructive opinions...........do you want some blue KoolAid? If not, we might have to ask you to leave

I'll concede that telling people to find a new team is too much (except maybe for thearchives, but I'll leave that one alone). However, it is equally deplorable IMO to attack people for not thinking the moves are that bad, or for waiting until we can see the final shakedown before forming a dramatic opinion.

When we suggest that we wait and see how things play out before declaring a move a blunder, we're met with responses like, "Dude, these moves suck." How is that any more rational and worthy of respect than the opposite extreme?

Discussion and opinions are one thing, but attacks from either direction regarding those opinions just make people look arrogant.

 

[richpats]

Jet fan, right?

Jagoff, right?

 

[emoney_33]

OK and the personnel moves the last week do not smack of some desparation?


Deltha Oneil=Duane Starks=Chad Scott=Fernando Bryant

They had the whole offseason to plan and adjust for the loss of A.S.
BB/Pioli whiffed on free agents, even tehy woould admit that. The cornerback situation for a team at teh level of teh Patriots is not good.


We will see how they do...but don't count on the superbowl this year and don't count on a shut down defense.

So tell us what YOU would have done?

Broke the bank for Samuel?

Signed ....?


They drafted 2 CBs, one of whom has a very good set of raw skills. One of whose skill set is not as limited as a previous cornerback and who has the potential to develop into a BETTER corner for the pats. They bring in a bunch of veterans for competition but it's not like they chose the wrong veterans. Who else was available, what would YOU have done?

 

[Sicilian]

Naturally. But bad moves are bad moves, and questionable moves are questionable moves. The difference should be the amount of slack given and the confidence that 'damage' can be repaired, not the absence of questioning and concern.

And that's exactly what I've been trying to suggest! Rather than labelling the moves on the day they're made, judge them in a few weeks when we can see more of the big picture.

When people keep defending a move long after it's been proven to be a mistake, then I agree with you 100%, the organization deserves criticism for that move.

 

[mcbee]

There is not a better coach in the NFL right now than Bill Belicheck. But he makes some really weird personel moves from time to time. In fact, their organization has been 0-3 since 2004. The Pats fail to realize that this isn't 2001 anymore where they can sign chumps and magically win a superbowl. That year was a fluke, the talent around the NFL was not as good as it is today yet they still keep going the cheap route. Way to try to replace Samuel with Fernando Bryant and Jason Webster; look how that worked out! Their plan backfired in '05 and '06 but '07 was a fantastic year for the front office. The point is, if they expect to win a superbowl, their going to have spend a little more money on players than scrubs listed above. Look for their plan to really backfire this season. I have said it over and over again, their secondary is going to get torched.

Yup, he's a good coach. But even good coaches make bad personnel decisions, run out of talent, have bad drafts, and basically just have holes all over their team from time to time.

The jig is up...this year looks ugly. Time to get some hobbies for those long Sunday afternoons...after all you don't want to end up all miserable and yelling at the wife just because the Pats are the Patsies once again. 2009 is a new season.

 

[Pats67]

Jagoff, right?

No, Westhoff. Your special teams coach is Mike Westhoff.

 

[richpats]

No, Westhoff. Your special teams coach is Mike Westhoff.

And your gender of preference is male....not that there is anything wrong with that

 

[BradyToMoss]

I'll concede that telling people to find a new team is too much (except maybe for thearchives, but I'll leave that one alone). However, it is equally deplorable IMO to attack people for not thinking the moves are that bad, or for waiting until we can see the final shakedown before forming a dramatic opinion.

When we suggest that we wait and see how things play out before declaring a move a blunder, we're met with responses like, "Dude, these moves suck." How is that any more rational and worthy of respect than the opposite extreme?

Discussion and opinions are one thing, but attacks from either direction regarding those opinions just make people look arrogant.

You are the classic "KoolAid" drinker here Sicilian. It's OK, you can actually come out and say something slightly negative or something that you might not have agreed with that BB and the FO may have done. It's OK, don't feel bad about doing it. You blasted me for expressing my opinion on how bad Bryant was in these PS games, how horrible he was and all I got back from you was that I had no idea what I was talking about, that it's a function of the vanilla D the Pats were playing, blah, blah..........Next thing you know, he's handed his walking papers, then you go silent on the issue.

Have some nads, express an opinion.

 

[Pats726]

Fine but the whining NOW is crap.

Again, all the OL has lost is the oft injured Neal.
The backup QB is the same
VERY few wanted Samuel to be paid that money here and we used a high pick on his replacement.

Not to nitpick but O'Callaghan is on IR...so 2 of the 9 are not around for now..BUT I AGREE with your point totally...