OT: Parcells only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

[Ring 6]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

Parcells rebuilt 4 franchises from the dregs into playoff contenders (granted GYoung was a major part of G-men resurgence in the early 80s). There were many years of transition, and once the team's were on the right track he left to do it again. Parcells was a great coach and the ability to alter the course of 4, and now possibly 5 franchises for the better is unprecedented and HOF worthy.

Belichick took over a team every bit as bad as the ones Tuna did, and won a div title in his second year, then went on to win 5 of 6. Thats 6 in 8 years.

Parcells made bad teams better. But his success lessened at each stop.
With the Giants he won 2 SBs.
With the Pats he got to one.
With the Jets he never got to a SB.
With Dallas he never won a playoff game.

I agree he is very overrated, but he has the perfect personality to have the media in awe of him.
I think a bigger part of his legacy should be walking away from the Giants to go the NE. The abandoning of the Pats while preparing for the SB. Stepping down from the Jet job after a disappointing season, becoming their GM and bailiing on that, then leaving Dallas before completing the job.

Parcells has lived high on his 2 rings with the Giants, but unless respectability is exciting to you he hasn't done much since.

 

[mgteich]

Parcells is who he is. Since he in a non-patriot, he is worthless and worse than our weakest coach. That is the philosophy of many here regarding all non-patriots. Most posters believe that the patriots are better if everyone else is aweful. This attitude never made sense to me.

Those who are not patriot fans rate Parcells as one the greatest football coaches in the game. And yes, someone who should have been moved up to GM and/or VP of Player Operations years ago. Parcells might still be here if the Krafts understood the game at the time that Parcells was guiding our team to the Super Bowl. They didn't and greatly limited the say of Parcells over personnel decisions. The rest is history. The Krafts replaced Parcells and all was fine. Well, except for the three years that the team went downhill until the Krafts decided to bring in Belichick. The dynasty could have started in 1996. We were in the Super Bowl and we were on our way up.

 

[Ring 6]

Parcells is who he is. Since he in a non-patriot, he is worthless and worse than our weakest coach. That is the philosophy of many here regarding all non-patriots. Most posters believe that the patriots are better if everyone else is aweful. This attitude never made sense to me.

Those who are not patriot fans rate Parcells as one the greatest football coaches in the game. And yes, someone who should have been moved up to GM and/or VP of Player Operations years ago. Parcells might still be here if the Krafts understood the game at the time that Parcells was guiding our team to the Super Bowl. They didn't and greatly limited the say of Parcells over personnel decisions. The rest is history. The Krafts replaced Parcells and all was fine. Well, except for the three years that the team went downhill until the Krafts decided to bring in Belichick. The dynasty could have started in 1996. We were in the Super Bowl and we were on our way up.

I dont see anyone trashing Parcells and saying anything resembling your whine line.
Parcells is what he is, as you say. His record speaks for itself. In the history of the NFL he absolutely is among the best ever. But that doesn't mean he is without warts. If he had never coached the Giants, and his career was what came after, he wouldn't be anywhere near the discussion of all-time greats. That is why he gets overrated. He built some franchises up to respectability, and everyone expected once he did that he would turn them into Champions. That never happened. His record beyond the Giants years is far from great.
His history of bailing on teams is part of what he is.
To say that the dynasty could have started in 1996 is totally misguided. To blame Kraft when Parcells negotiated his way out instead of focussing on the SB, is inane. Just so we are clear; after leaving here, he has won nothing, so I find it ludicrous to say he would have had the same success with him here as BB, since Parcells has never had that much success anywhere.
Just for the record, Parcells spoken reason for leaving "buying the groceries" is ironic. He went to the Jets, had that power, then walked away from it, and went to Dallas without that power.
At the best, Parcells overestimated the value of 'buying the groceries' and the worst the guy who was scheming behind the owners back in violation of league rules during SB week, was less than forthright about the reasons.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Parcells is who he is. Since he in a non-patriot, he is worthless and worse than our weakest coach. That is the philosophy of many here regarding all non-patriots. Most posters believe that the patriots are better if everyone else is aweful. This attitude never made sense to me.

Those who are not patriot fans rate Parcells as one the greatest football coaches in the game. And yes, someone who should have been moved up to GM and/or VP of Player Operations years ago. Parcells might still be here if the Krafts understood the game at the time that Parcells was guiding our team to the Super Bowl. They didn't and greatly limited the say of Parcells over personnel decisions. The rest is history. The Krafts replaced Parcells and all was fine. Well, except for the three years that the team went downhill until the Krafts decided to bring in Belichick. The dynasty could have started in 1996. We were in the Super Bowl and we were on our way up.

but the Krafts DID learn from the Parcells experience--and THAT made all the difference when Belichick came to town...

but I don't agree that the dynasty could have started in 1996...the pieces weren't there...Bledsoe was a very good QB early in his career, but he was certainly not capable of being the centerpiece of a dynasty...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Parcells is who he is. Since he in a non-patriot, he is worthless and worse than our weakest coach. That is the philosophy of many here regarding all non-patriots. Most posters believe that the patriots are better if everyone else is aweful. This attitude never made sense to me.

Those who are not patriot fans rate Parcells as one the greatest football coaches in the game. And yes, someone who should have been moved up to GM and/or VP of Player Operations years ago. Parcells might still be here if the Krafts understood the game at the time that Parcells was guiding our team to the Super Bowl. They didn't and greatly limited the say of Parcells over personnel decisions. The rest is history. The Krafts replaced Parcells and all was fine. Well, except for the three years that the team went downhill until the Krafts decided to bring in Belichick. The dynasty could have started in 1996. We were in the Super Bowl and we were on our way up.

Bullschit, and Kraft will tell you why. Parcells was a disingenuous liar and credit grabber with a penchant for pointing the finger at someone else when his plan wasn't working out according to script. He left a cap mess in his wake here, and another in NY when he abandoned the JETS after losing his little worker bee. Neither team performed well after he left because they had real issues, some of which were of his making. He senses that and bails before the schit hits the fan...

He ultimately made NO decisions in Dallas as that is Jerry's perogative. Jerry hired him to make a splash and u the Q rating for America's team. If he got to pick his brain and he scared some of the kids straight and pushed some veteran buttons and attracted some young genius coaches to the organization in the process, that was the bonus. The QB who ultimately turned things around in Dallas was not Tuna's pick - Jerry selected him because HE had a gut instinct about Romo. Jerry brought in TO against Bill's wishes. Bill pleaded for Drewpie and got him against Jerry's better judgement. Ultimately that cost him his job, although he was burnt out on it and looking for his customary break and change anyway. He'll get whatever credit there is to grab for Dallas' performance for the forseeable future anyway...and had it gone the other way Jerry would have been the goat. Win-Win.

Now in Miami, as likely would have been the case in Atlanta though on a smaller scale and stage, he almost can't fail. There is nowhere to go but up. He'll hang for a couple of seasons until he gets bored or senses there is little more to be gained in staying. Then the next guy who comes along will either be the idiot who screwed up the grand turnaround plan or the beneficiary of a Parcells foundation. Win-Win.

He can't coach in this league any longer because his brain can't keep up with the younger generation of genius coaches and his personality is a mismatch for the overhyped millionaire generation of athletes he's forced to work with. He's a dinosaur from the 80's. A retread with a hi profile Q rating. But that is all Miami needs coming off 3 disasterous decisions in a decade of ownership. To stop the freefall and start climbing back to respectability. They aren't going to win a division in this decade no matter what they do, so the goal now is to work their way back to a point where they will be in striking range as the next decade approaches. 4-12, 6-10, 9-7 - and if they make the playoffs as a WC in year 4 (when he will have moved on as he always does a year early) he will get ALL the credit. If they slide back down the hill, it won't be on his watch. What this owner really wants is for Bill to locate and install a functional football ops that can continue to function long after he's moved on. And that hope is rooted not in his success but that of his former protoges.

It never ceases to amaze me that people could have lived through the last decade as Pat's fans and not "get IT". That you actually believe a dynasty could have been started here in 1996 is proof positive that you remain thoroughly delusional where Drew and Tuna are concerned. Tuna did his job here in picking them up off the mat and elevating their profile. He also knew they weren't going to win a championship or continue to improve with Drew at the helm and looming cap issues. He bought low and sold hi like the astute salesman that he is. The grocery line was mostly a cover, as his post Patriots resume underscores.

 

[mgteich]

Much of this would make more sense if Parcells was replaced by Belichick as patriot coach. It didn't happen that way.

My personal opinion is that had pioli been brought in, and had the same player and contract improvement been made from the time of the Super Bowl onward, that we would have done well under Parcells and whoever succeeded him. It was bringing in Carrol and Grieir that put the team on a downward spin, not Parcells. Parcells and Beldsoe had us in the Super Bowl, with a an improving team (or one that could have been improving).

The Krafts did not know a lot about how to manage a football team when they made their own judgements over player situations, instead of listening to the coach. The Krafts thought that we needed a wde receiver more than anything. Parcells was an ********* in the way he left. Belichick wasn't much better in the way he left the jets. The fact is that the Krafts watched the team go downward until they brought in Belichick.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Much of this would make more sense if Parcells was replaced by Belichick as patriot coach. It didn't happen that way.

My personal opinion is that had pioli been brought in, and had the same player and contract improvement been made from the time of the Super Bowl onward, that we would have done well under Parcells and whoever succeeded him. It was bringing in Carrol and Grieir that put the team on a downward spin, not Parcells. Parcells and Beldsoe had us in the Super Bowl, with a an improving team (or one that could have been improving).

The Krafts did not know a lot about how to manage a football team when they made their own judgements over player situations, instead of listening to the coach. The Krafts thought that we needed a wde receiver more than anything. Parcells was an ********* in the way he left. Belichick wasn't much better in the way he left the jets. The fact is that the Krafts watched the team go downward until they brought in Belichick.

What makes you think Pioli could have been brought in at that juncture...you need to read up on "Scotty" since your personal opinion doesn't seem to have a clue where he emerged from let alone when or how. He was a kid BB took a serious shine to when he was the Giants DC while Scott was still in college, and whom he tapped for a gopher spot with all the growth potential he could handle on his Cleveland staff in 1993 after Scott's first two years of small college experience, who went to the Ravens for a year (1996) after the Browns evaporated only to be brought in as a pro personnel director for the JETS at Belichick's behest after Parcells bolted with staff to the JETS. So he wasn't quite ready to be the Patriots psuedo GM under Parcells back in 1997 and neither Parcells or Kraft had any clue who Pioli was prior to 1997 and 2000, respectively...

Nice try though mg. You really struggle to give the evil injury list manipulator any credit, don't you? LOL

 

[Ring 6]

Much of this would make more sense if Parcells was replaced by Belichick as patriot coach. It didn't happen that way.

My personal opinion is that had pioli been brought in, and had the same player and contract improvement been made from the time of the Super Bowl onward, that we would have done well under Parcells and whoever succeeded him. It was bringing in Carrol and Grieir that put the team on a downward spin, not Parcells. Parcells and Beldsoe had us in the Super Bowl, with a an improving team (or one that could have been improving).

The Krafts did not know a lot about how to manage a football team when they made their own judgements over player situations, instead of listening to the coach. The Krafts thought that we needed a wde receiver more than anything. Parcells was an ********* in the way he left. Belichick wasn't much better in the way he left the jets. The fact is that the Krafts watched the team go downward until they brought in Belichick.

Your revisionary history is curious.
You are saying PARCELLS BUILT THE TEAM, but he left because he wasnt allowed to build the team, and if he stayed and was allowed to build the team he would have done well.
But he never did build the team, at least from your perspective. The Krafts had a GM and they gave him power over personell. That is why Parcells left. So if he left because he didnt have personell authority, how does he get credit for building the team?
The personell decisons were made by Grier, DURING AND AFTER Parcells. So the same decision making that you thought built a winner is the one that you are saying wrecked it.

It crazy to think that the Krafts were making personell decisions.

 

[Ring 6]

Much of this would make more sense if Parcells was replaced by Belichick as patriot coach. It didn't happen that way.

My personal opinion is that had pioli been brought in, and had the same player and contract improvement been made from the time of the Super Bowl onward, that we would have done well under Parcells and whoever succeeded him. It was bringing in Carrol and Grieir that put the team on a downward spin, not Parcells. Parcells and Beldsoe had us in the Super Bowl, with a an improving team (or one that could have been improving).

The Krafts did not know a lot about how to manage a football team when they made their own judgements over player situations, instead of listening to the coach. The Krafts thought that we needed a wde receiver more than anything. Parcells was an ********* in the way he left. Belichick wasn't much better in the way he left the jets. The fact is that the Krafts watched the team go downward until they brought in Belichick.

Your argument would make more sense if Parcells had ever accomplished what you are assuming would have.
What were his excuses in New York? Did the owner make him draft WRs?
What were his excuses in Dallas? Was it Jerry Jones fault that he couldnt win a playoff game in 5 years, and Wade Phillips has had a better season than Tuna ever had?

I don't get the assumption that Parcells could do what BB has done, when BB has actually done it and Parcells, in NUMEROUS opportuities really hasn't come close.

 

[Real World]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

you are 100% crazy. and it has nothing to do with BB. no way in h3ll does BP belong in the HOF, he is not even average... he was working a deal with another team, WHILE his team was in town for a superbowl.. do you think even ONE of those players who worked all that year have even an OUNCE of respect for him? ANYONE can take a 1-15, 2-14, whatever, team, and make them better... your mother could... you cant do worse. he is great at putting himself in a situation where he cant lose (and he IS great at that). that is all. if the phins win 3 games for each of the next 3 years, some morons will say BP improved them.

How old are you? If you're older than 30 you should remember how pathetic this franchise had been till Parcells got here. Give him his due respect. As for looking for another job while with another team, I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, when you consider BB's coming here.

 

[Real World]

Bullschit, and Kraft will tell you why. Parcells was a disingenuous liar and credit grabber with a penchant for pointing the finger at someone else when his plan wasn't working out according to script. He left a cap mess in his wake here, and another in NY when he abandoned the JETS after losing his little worker bee. Neither team performed well after he left because they had real issues, some of which were of his making. He senses that and bails before the schit hits the fan...

He ultimately made NO decisions in Dallas as that is Jerry's perogative. Jerry hired him to make a splash and u the Q rating for America's team. If he got to pick his brain and he scared some of the kids straight and pushed some veteran buttons and attracted some young genius coaches to the organization in the process, that was the bonus. The QB who ultimately turned things around in Dallas was not Tuna's pick - Jerry selected him because HE had a gut instinct about Romo. Jerry brought in TO against Bill's wishes. Bill pleaded for Drewpie and got him against Jerry's better judgement. Ultimately that cost him his job, although he was burnt out on it and looking for his customary break and change anyway. He'll get whatever credit there is to grab for Dallas' performance for the forseeable future anyway...and had it gone the other way Jerry would have been the goat. Win-Win.

Now in Miami, as likely would have been the case in Atlanta though on a smaller scale and stage, he almost can't fail. There is nowhere to go but up. He'll hang for a couple of seasons until he gets bored or senses there is little more to be gained in staying. Then the next guy who comes along will either be the idiot who screwed up the grand turnaround plan or the beneficiary of a Parcells foundation. Win-Win.

He can't coach in this league any longer because his brain can't keep up with the younger generation of genius coaches and his personality is a mismatch for the overhyped millionaire generation of athletes he's forced to work with. He's a dinosaur from the 80's. A retread with a hi profile Q rating. But that is all Miami needs coming off 3 disasterous decisions in a decade of ownership. To stop the freefall and start climbing back to respectability. They aren't going to win a division in this decade no matter what they do, so the goal now is to work their way back to a point where they will be in striking range as the next decade approaches. 4-12, 6-10, 9-7 - and if they make the playoffs as a WC in year 4 (when he will have moved on as he always does a year early) he will get ALL the credit. If they slide back down the hill, it won't be on his watch. What this owner really wants is for Bill to locate and install a functional football ops that can continue to function long after he's moved on. And that hope is rooted not in his success but that of his former protoges.

It never ceases to amaze me that people could have lived through the last decade as Pat's fans and not "get IT". That you actually believe a dynasty could have been started here in 1996 is proof positive that you remain thoroughly delusional where Drew and Tuna are concerned. Tuna did his job here in picking them up off the mat and elevating their profile. He also knew they weren't going to win a championship or continue to improve with Drew at the helm and looming cap issues. He bought low and sold hi like the astute salesman that he is. The grocery line was mostly a cover, as his post Patriots resume underscores.

I see. Whereever he did well, it was because he didn't make decisions, and whenever it fell apart after he moved on, it was because he left a mess.

 

[Clonamery]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

As for looking for another job while with another team, I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, when you consider BB's coming here.

At least it wasn't during the playoffs!

 

[Real World]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

At least it wasn't during the playoffs!

You're right!

What's funny is how homer people in this area are. They openly criticize BP for leaving us in 1996, in the manner that he did, but have no issues with how BB came here. On top of that, they feel the need to trash BP, even though he put us on the map when he came here. This team was an embarassment until Parcells took over. I for one, think he's an excellent coach, while BB is arguably the greatest coach of alltime. You don't need to rip BP, to say BB is better.

 

[Clonamery]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

You're right!

What's funny is how homer people in this area are. They openly criticize BP for leaving us in 1996, in the manner that he did, but have no issues with how BB came here. On top of that, they feel the need to trash BP, even though he put us on the map when he came here. This team was an embarassment until Parcells took over. I for one, think he's an excellent coach, while BB is arguably the greatest coach of alltime. You don't need to rip BP, to say BB is better.

Perhaps, but BP betrayed THIS organization so I can understand why some might want to feel that way.

 

[Real World]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

Perhaps, but BP betrayed THIS organization so I can understand why some might want to feel that way.

Sure, that's totally understandable. I was very pissed myself. However, when evaluating people, you have to hold them all to the same standard.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

You're right!

What's funny is how homer people in this area are. They openly criticize BP for leaving us in 1996, in the manner that he did, but have no issues with how BB came here. On top of that, they feel the need to trash BP, even though he put us on the map when he came here. This team was an embarassment until Parcells took over. I for one, think he's an excellent coach, while BB is arguably the greatest coach of alltime. You don't need to rip BP, to say BB is better.

Given the significant differences between Parcells' exit from New England and Belichick's exit from New York, I don't see how you can fairly compare the two. It doesn't take a homer to realize that a lot of coaches don't want to just be puppets for one year before relinquishing the position.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

Given the significant differences between Parcells' exit from New England and Belichick's exit from New York, I don't see how you can fairly compare the two. It doesn't take a homer to realize that a lot of coaches don't want to just be puppets for one year before relinquishing the position.

There is a significant difference between secretly looking for your next job when you are supposed to be preparing for the SB, and choosing not to accept a promotion. Parcells resigned, and BB didn't want the job.

 

[alamo]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

Parcells resigned, and BB didn't want the job.

The other aspect of this that makes Parcells look bad and Belichick look less so was the way the Parcells resignation happened. There were rumors Belichick was going to leave for the Patriots, and Parcells' abrupt resignation was intended to force Belichick to stay with the Jets as second fiddle to Parcells.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

The other aspect of this that makes Parcells look bad and Belichick look less so was the way the Parcells resignation happened. There were rumors Belichick was going to leave for the Patriots, and Parcells' abrupt resignation was intended to force Belichick to stay with the Jets as second fiddle to Parcells.

Don't try to inject the truth into the argument, Real World will only mock you as a homer. Gotta love these guys who think they have it all figured out and the rest of us knuckleheads just fell off the old homer driven turnip truck...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: OT: Parcelss only won 5 Division Titles in 19 seasons

The other aspect of this that makes Parcells look bad and Belichick look less so was the way the Parcells resignation happened. There were rumors Belichick was going to leave for the Patriots, and Parcells' abrupt resignation was intended to force Belichick to stay with the Jets as second fiddle to Parcells.

Yah, didn't The Tuner quickly fax BB's 'promotion' to Kraft just after the last game of the season ended? I forget the details but clearly The Tuner was reacting in haste wisely blocking the promotion that BB would have recieved by going to the Pats.

I will never forgive Parcells for spending all that time talking on the phone to the Jets about his new job instead of preparing for the SB, not that more preparation would have stoped Bledsoe from somehow self-destructing in a big playoff game. At the time however, it seemed as if evil Parcells had squandered our best opportunity for that elusive ring.