Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X3 Merged)

[danny88]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X2 Merged)

Maroney


Maroney has done nothing special since the bengals game last year.

Maroney has already had major offseason surgery.

Maroney was "banged up" all year last year.

Maroney has not only been poor when running the ball , he has also been sub par with his blocking this year.

Maroney has yet to break into the secondary and take one to the house.

Maroney has sub par recieving numbers

Maroney and a 100 yard game? Haha!

Maroney continues to dance and show poor field vision.

Maroney was highly ineffective in the playoffs, and down the stretch last year.

Maroney cannot get the tough yards.

Maroney missed several games this year with injury , came out of several games early with injury , and also has been benched for poor play on several occasions.

Maroney told the media the pats knew his running style when they drafted him and asked why he should change.

The coaching staff but baby diapers in his locker

Maroney has done little to nothing playing in the best o in history

Rumors have been swirling about how unhappy the pats staff is with SloMo.

Maroney has done nothing that any avg NFL running back has done this year

Maroney has poor vision.

Maroney has not lived up to the hype everyone on here was screaming about when we drafted him.

Maroney goes down easy.

Maroney has yet to make something out of nothing

75 percent of those polled on this site where either unsure or against drafting Maroney almost 2 full years into his pats career. Avg shelf life for a NFL back? 4 years.

We praise Maroney when he does something good. A high first round draft choice playing in his 31st NFL game draws all kinds of excitment when he actually does what is expected of him? Oh boy!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

Then add an addendum that it is contigent upon at least 18 carries.

The assertion has been the plan has nto been to run the ball because the run defenses were great. These run defenses are bad, so at least a few runs should be called for Maroney. If the team goes up big and Maroney comes out, then at least he should be getting 4-5 yards per carry. Perhaps even getting a long run.

But if the plan still is not run Maroney, in the first half now, then the arguments of CAN do, start to wear thin.

Exactly. Go ahead and add a "reasonable" qualifier if you want, but it all boils down to do you have faith or believe that Maroney can get 100 yards in the next two games, against the worst, #30 and #32 ranked defenses in the NFL?

The weaknesses of both these 2 teams is against the run. The Pats coaching staff, being what we'd like to believe is pretty smart, will likely attack that weakness. These upcoming games are Maroney's perfect "breakout" chances. You couldn't write a better storybook this tailor made to provide Maroney the opportunities to hit 100. And yet most of the Maroney supporters so far have been unwilling to predict that he can do it. That really tells us a lot about how deep/shallow their faith in Maroney is.

Now you're flat-out lying.

So do you believe that Maroney will reach the 100 yard mark or not? Yes or no. It's easy to flip your name to the yes list, all you have to do is say the word.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

Then add an addendum that it is contigent upon at least 18 carries.

The assertion has been the plan has nto been to run the ball because the run defenses were great. These run defenses are bad, so at least a few runs should be called for Maroney. If the team goes up big and Maroney comes out, then at least he should be getting 4-5 yards per carry. Perhaps even getting a long run.

But if the plan still is not run Maroney, in the first half now, then the arguments of CAN do, start to wear thin.

Let's try this with you, in the hopes that you're not as unthinking as most of the other Maroney bashers.....



GAME PLAN

GREATEST PASSING OFFENSE EVER

PAYBACK GAME


I would be more surprised to see 15 runs in the first half than I would be to see 0 runs in the first half. Is it possible that BB will decide to run the ball? Sure. Is it likely that he will? No. Do I think he'd run the ball if he had a backfield of Barry Sanders and Jim Brown in each of their primes? No.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

Exactly. Go ahead and add a "reasonable" qualifier if you want, but it all boils down to do you have faith or believe that Maroney can get 100 yards in the next two games, against the worst, #30 and #32 ranked defenses in the NFL?

The weaknesses of both these 2 teams is against the run. The Pats coaching staff, being what we'd like to believe is pretty smart, will likely attack that weakness. These upcoming games are Maroney's perfect "breakout" chances. You couldn't write a better storybook this tailor made to provide Maroney the opportunities to hit 100. And yet most of the Maroney supporters so far have been unwilling to predict that he can do it. That really tells us a lot about how deep/shallow their faith in Maroney is.



So do you believe that Maroney will reach the 100 yard mark or not? Yes or no. It's easy to flip your name to the yes list, all you have to do is say the word.

You are now lying about me in your signature. Take my name out of there immediately.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

I nominate this as the most informed post of the week. You think that bb would not run even if he had Barry Sanders and Jim Brown in the backfield. You wouldn't run even though you were playing one of the worst run defenses in the NFL in a snowstorm!

I take the opposite view. IMHO, if we had a solid running game, we would want to slow down the game, and grind out the yardage. I am OK with our running game. We lost Morris, and we are what we are: a mediocre running team. And that's fine. I don't think we'll run a lot because we don't want to risk injuries to Faulk and Maroney.

Let's try this with you, in the hopes that you're not as unthinking as most of the other Maroney bashers.....



GAME PLAN

GREATEST PASSING OFFENSE EVER

PAYBACK GAME


I would be more surprised to see 15 runs in the first half than I would be to see 0 runs in the first half. Is it possible that BB will decide to run the ball? Sure. Is it likely that he will? No. Do I think he'd run the ball if he had a backfield of Barry Sanders and Jim Brown in each of their primes? No.

 

[jarnhestur]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

Yay for merged threads!

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

I nominate this as the most informed post of the week. You think that bb would not run even if he had Barry Sanders and Jim Brown in the backfield. You wouldn't run even though you were playing one of the worst run defenses in the NFL in a snowstorm!

I take the opposite view. IMHO, if we had a solid running game, we would want to slow down the game, and grind out the yardage. I am OK with our running game. We lost Morris, and we are what we are: a mediocre running team. And that's fine. I don't think we'll run a lot because we don't want to risk injuries to Faulk and Maroney.

Quick question: Since this offense took off passing wise and really kicked it into high gear, how much rushing has Belichick done? This offense started laying waste on a grand scale when it put up 48 against Dallas. So, let's take a look at what's happened since:

27 carries (Dallas)
22 vs Miami
35 vs Washington (rushed only 4, sold out for the pass, it didn't work)
28 vs Indianapolis
29 vs Buffalo, many in 2nd half when the game was over
16 vs Philly
24 vs Baltimore
9 vs Pittsburgh


It's pretty clear that this team hasn't been a run first team all season. It's also clear that, as the passing game has gotten more in sync, the running game has become more of an afterthought, despite the very successful running attack against Washington which the Maroney bashers like to conveniently ignore. Personally, I think that's because BB understands that Brady to Moss is quite possibly the greatest passing combination in league history and he's exploiting that. I can understand people having concerns about the run, but let's be honest about things and realize that the following things have got to have had an impact upon game planning:

New run blocking scheme
Injury to Maroney early in the year
Injury to Morris mid-season
Amazing passing game
Injuries in the offensive line the past few weeks
Playing against good run defenses in the past few weeks

Now, whether or not Maroney's a piss poor/poor/average/good/great runner has yet to be seen, although anyone who's even semi-conscious should be able to see that he's at least an average NFL runner. We know that the team wanted him to change his style to accomodate the game plan, focusing on producing positive yardage plays rather than searching for big gains. We know that Maroney has been used mainly as a runner, inside the tackles, and that teams have been able to key on that. We know that Maroney was still recovering from his post-season surgery even into training camp, and we can certainly speculate that this had some impact upon his offseason training. We know that the threat of a handoff to Maroney has led to some big plays, just as we know that throwing him the ball has led to a couple of big plays.

What we don't KNOW is why he's only getting x amount of reps. We can speculate without any real facts, which is what the anti-Maroney people have done. Or, conversely, we can take what's been said by players (Mankins, Brady) and BB himself, and match that up with the opponents played (other than the Buffalo game which was certainly odd), and just look at it as a game plan issue which means we won't really know about Maroney until at least next season.

Now, this team is chasing the all-time passing yardage record, the all-time passing TD record for a QB, the all-time combined TD record for a QB, the all-time TD record for receivers and the all-time scoring record. Given that, and adding the 'spy gate' situation on top of it, I simply don't think that it makes any difference who's in the backfield. I expect this team to throw, throw, throw.


P.S. Given that the team has only run the ball more than 29 times once in the last 8 games, I would, as I said, be more surprised if they ran 15 times in the first half than if they didn't run it at all during that time. That wasn't just idle commentary, and it wasn't any sort of judgment on the running game.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

1) It is not at all clear that Maroney is at least an average NFL running back. Please list all the starting running backs and see whether Maroney is better than 16 of them. I don't think the answer is clear at all. That being said I am fine with the pick. He was headed to ROY consideration before he was injured. The situation now is what it is. I expect Maroney to contribute as one of our running backs for several years. I do NOT expect him be a 3rd down back. He doesn't have the blocking skills.

2) I've followed this team since 1979. It has never been a run-first team.

3) The team is NOT chasing passing records. It is maximizing its chances for winning the SB. Records and revenge are for fans.

4) I expect the team to run more than 29 times this game. I expect that many of the runs will be by Eckel and Evans, disappointing those who want bb to run up the score.

5) The OL blocking scheme has been changed for Maroney. I expect that we may see results in the playoffs or next year.

6) I would like to see a starting 2008 squad of FIVE running backs, so that when one is hurt, we have better than Eckel. We had a fine starting four, but all plans changed when Morris was injured. We need to do better.

Quick question: Since this offense took off passing wise and really kicked it into high gear, how much rushing has Belichick done? This offense started laying waste on a grand scale when it put up 48 against Dallas. So, let's take a look at what's happened since:

27 carries (Dallas)
22 vs Miami
35 vs Washington (rushed only 4, sold out for the pass, it didn't work)
28 vs Indianapolis
29 vs Buffalo, many in 2nd half when the game was over
16 vs Philly
24 vs Baltimore
9 vs Pittsburgh


It's pretty clear that this team hasn't been a run first team all season. It's also clear that, as the passing game has gotten more in sync, the running game has become more of an afterthought, despite the very successful running attack against Washington which the Maroney bashers like to conveniently ignore. Personally, I think that's because BB understands that Brady to Moss is quite possibly the greatest passing combination in league history and he's exploiting that. I can understand people having concerns about the run, but let's be honest about things and realize that the following things have got to have had an impact upon game planning:

New run blocking scheme
Injury to Maroney early in the year
Injury to Morris mid-season
Amazing passing game
Injuries in the offensive line the past few weeks
Playing against good run defenses in the past few weeks

Now, whether or not Maroney's a piss poor/poor/average/good/great runner has yet to be seen, although anyone who's even semi-conscious should be able to see that he's at least an average NFL runner. We know that the team wanted him to change his style to accomodate the game plan, focusing on producing positive yardage plays rather than searching for big gains. We know that Maroney has been used mainly as a runner, inside the tackles, and that teams have been able to key on that. We know that Maroney was still recovering from his post-season surgery even into training camp, and we can certainly speculate that this had some impact upon his offseason training. We know that the threat of a handoff to Maroney has led to some big plays, just as we know that throwing him the ball has led to a couple of big plays.

What we don't KNOW is why he's only getting x amount of reps. We can speculate without any real facts, which is what the anti-Maroney people have done. Or, conversely, we can take what's been said by players (Mankins, Brady) and BB himself, and match that up with the opponents played (other than the Buffalo game which was certainly odd), and just look at it as a game plan issue which means we won't really know about Maroney until at least next season.

Now, this team is chasing the all-time passing yardage record, the all-time passing TD record for a QB, the all-time combined TD record for a QB, the all-time TD record for receivers and the all-time scoring record. Given that, and adding the 'spy gate' situation on top of it, I simply don't think that it makes any difference who's in the backfield. I expect this team to throw, throw, throw.


P.S. Given that the team has only run the ball more than 29 times once in the last 8 games, I would, as I said, be more surprised if they ran 15 times in the first half than if they didn't run it at all during that time. That wasn't just idle commentary, and it wasn't any sort of judgment on the running game.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: How Much of Maroney's Poor Performance Due to O-Line?

The O-line play didn't seem to affect Sammy Morris.

 

[Grizzafted]

Re: How Much of Maroney's Poor Performance Due to O-Line?

holy sh!t... Even I've had enough already!

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X2 Merged)

From ASK PFW...

Guys, what the heck is going on with Maroney? I don't know about the other Pats fans, but what is the deal with this guy? We have no running game. I want to give this guy a chance, but every time I see him run I cringe. I was screaming at the TV yesterday "don't give him the ball" I hate the Colts but I sure wish we got Addai instead of Maroney. He's dancing around instead of hitting the hole hard. Is it me, or does he just suck! I'm glad I didn't buy one of his jerseys, I'd be embarrassed to wear it now. I hope he does something soon, or dump him for someone who can run.
Dave Bennett

Hello, The moose from Idaho here, I'm a lifelong pats fan, born and bred in central NH. Thanks to technology, I am able to watch every pats game here. Off to my question. Every since Sammy Morris went down our running game has been less than stellar. I appreciate the fact that we are able to still dominate with the passing game...but leading into the playoffs, I get more concerned weekly about not having a running game. What are we now, about #32 in the league for yards running per game? How are we going to fare in the playoffs and or Super Bowl being so one sided? Has any team ever won it all with just the pass? I appreciate all your comments throughout the years.
Greg Bourdon

It's hard to criticize the Patriots for not running the football because they're 13-0 and have scored over 500 points on the season. No team in the past has ever won the Super Bowl running the ball at this rate but those teams also didn't have Tom Brady. I just think the Patriots use the short pass as their running game. Bill Belichick obviously feels that spreading defenses out is the best way for New England to move the ball. My argument against Maroney would be that if he were any good, he would get more opportunities.

The Colts have had great passing teams over the years but they still found a way to get the ball to Edgerrin James and Joseph Addai. The Rams had a great passing game but they still found a way to get the ball to Marshall Faulk (except in Super Bowl XXXVI). I think it's an excuse to say that Maroney isn't getting touches because the Patriots want to throw the ball all the time. Plenty of great passing teams still run the football. I just don't think Maroney is very good and the Patriots know it. Are you telling me if Addai were in New England he would only get 10 carries a game? I can't buy that for a second. Maroney may have a big game against the Jets but it's obvious that against good teams, the Patriots have no desire to run the football. Let's see if they have that same approach next season should they draft Darren McFadden. I seriously doubt it.
-Tom Casale

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: How Much of Maroney's Poor Performance Due to O-Line?

The O-line play didn't seem to affect Sammy Morris.

Why would it against junk run defenses like Cincy and Cleveland?

What was Morris doing against Dallas before his injury? 10 rushes for 14 yards..

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X2 Merged)

QUESTION
It is 4th and 1 with the game on the line. How would you try to get the first down?

1) Are you Kidding? Pass!
2) Maroney.
3) Faulk.
4) Evans

Z - NOT enough information is given. Where are they on the field? You say the game is on the line, but that means diddly. Are the Pats up or down? How much are they down by if they are down?

 

[mgteich]

Re: How Much of Maroney's Poor Performance Due to O-Line?

Yes, I expect that a stud runner would average more than .5 yards per carry more than Maroney. So what! Our needs are still at CB and at LB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness

I nominate this as the most informed post of the week. You think that bb would not run even if he had Barry Sanders and Jim Brown in the backfield. You wouldn't run even though you were playing one of the worst run defenses in the NFL in a snowstorm!

MG - Sorry but I call BS on you. Its ridiculous to be comparing Maroney to HOF RBs. Maroney was never a power running back like Dillon or Antowain Smith. He's a cut-back runner. There are issues with the run blocking, but there are issues with Maroney and his patience. Its not any ONE thing. And I've been pretty adamant about saying that. Its why I am of the belief that you can't judge how he will be yet.

I take the opposite view. IMHO, if we had a solid running game, we would want to slow down the game, and grind out the yardage. I am OK with our running game. We lost Morris, and we are what we are: a mediocre running team. And that's fine. I don't think we'll run a lot because we don't want to risk injuries to Faulk and Maroney.

We have a running game. Just because people don't like how its being used should mean they are blaming Faulk and Maroney. And I agree. I don't see the Pats running a lot because I don't believe they want to risk Maroney or Faulk either. But I believe its more of a change in their philosophy in how they deal with injuries than it is a damnation of Maroney.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: How Much of Maroney's Poor Performance Due to O-Line?

From what I remember of last year LOMO ran the best outside of the tackles,on Light,and Mankins side. Dillon ran between the tackles. Then they started having Maroney running inside,where he didn't do as well and have realy never changed. Recall all those runs down the LT side line and LOMO stiff arming tacklers last year. So I think there bound and determined to run him between the tackles for what ever reason,and its not his strength.So I don't think it has anything to do with the line,I think Maroney is a better outside runner. I'm also sick of hearing that he's a bust,he sucks etc. etc. etc. I think that if BB thought he needed to run more he'd do it.

 

[ursa99]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X2 Merged)

My take on Maroney and running backs in general.

I think they either have it or they don't. I don't think you can coach them up to be much better than they are. It's mostly instinct and instant decisions. The good backs can do this and the not so good backs don't as often.

Maroney whiffed on a couple of blitzes and I think BB yanked him to keep the passing game intact. I would guess that BB has many instances where he saw things about Maroney he didn't like thus his reduced playing time. He had the job handed to him this year and hasn't produced. Any back can run thru a hole you can drive a truck thru.

Maroney is what he is. If you want more he isn't it. If you like him as is, enjoy.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X2 Merged)

From ASK PFW...

Casale? He's the guy who has gone off the deep end on a few occasions and attacked posters from this board. He's the same guy who swore we'd take a particular LB in the draft only to not have us take him.

Sorry, but I take Casale's "opinion" with less than a grain of salt. Actually the grain is probably worth more.

 

[sebman2112]

Re: How Much of Maroney's Poor Performance Due to O-Line?

The O-line play didn't seem to affect Sammy Morris.

Really, I'm getting sick of people bringing up Sammy Morris' success when talking about Maroney.

In the first three games of the season Maroney had 72, 77, and 103 yards rushing. That's 252 yards in three games, while splitting time with Morris. During those same three games Morris put up 54, 51, and 46 yards rushing, for a three game total of 151 yards. Maroney rushes for 103 yards in week three on just 19 carries, then he gets injured and Morris has to take over. Morris then has two back-to-back 100 yard games against Cincy and cleveland, but struggles against the Cowboys (14 yards on 10 carries), before getting injured, and finding his way to the IR list.

Maybe some of you people should actually know the facts before typing?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Re: Let's Put An End To the Maroney Madness(X2 Merged)

Anyone see Maroney get ripped for his poor blocking and or rushing in the steelers game , and all year for that matter in the herald? The only reason the rb's got a b- grade for this week was Faulk's great blocking. Apparently Beli had seen enough early in the steel game.


Interesting most the big running plays the steelers had where on Seymours watch. Sey has not been himeself since he came back.


Maroney has been terrible this year.

I called out Seymour after last week's Baltimore game and got accused of being a hater. The guy isn't playing upto his pay level. Bottom line. Whether he is still hurt or not, I don't know. However, he simply is not worth the money we pay him if this is the best we are going to get. I also posted the Herald blurb about Maroney and, of course, it was shot down by the kool-aid gang as "It's from Felger, he's a hater".