The Media still HATES us even though we suck. Want Belichick gone bad.

[*ChungFu*]

After BB is gone they'll write about how horribly he was treated by the very fans he entertained. All media can SMMFD.

 

[Rob0729]

Is your argument that we're time traveling Brady to 2023 as he played in Michigan in 1999? Lol

More realistically, 23 yo Brady in 2023 would've had the modern training and nutrition making him athletically comparable to todays athletes, otherwise he wouldn't have made today's college teams. What made Brady different from other QBs was his intangibles. His drive, his heart, competitiveness, clutchness, the chip on his shoulder. None of that would've changed. Otherwise he wouldn't be Brady.

Honestly, your argument is utter nonsense.

I am saying if Brady came out the same way he came out in 2000. The same exact player or the 2023 comparable to what Brady was in 2000. None of this him working on his body like he did when came into the NFL. I am saying if the Brady of 2000 was a draft prospect in 2023, there is a good chance he would never had even made a team's practice squad.

But yes if you move the goalpost and completely change the argument, my argument is utter nonsense. But I was making this argument to debate whether Matthew Judon will play again this year, my argument would be utter nonsense too. But for what I am actually arguing, it isn't nonesense whether you agree or not.

 

[Rob0729]

The biggest knock on Brady was NFL teams not understanding why he was splitting time and being weary that something was wrong with him that they weren't seeing. I recall the Patriots.com guys saying they immediately felt the cognitive dissonance of the "not a strong arm" in Tom's first training camp. Either way, Fromm's arm was perceived as worse and he went a round higher.

That isn't a knock. That is an explanation why a lot of teams had no interest in him. But that doesn't change my argument that there is a good chance that he wouldn't be given a shot in today's NFL.

And if you go back and look at old scouting reports, most of them say his arm strength sucked. Brady even mocked those scouting reports a few years ago.

And Fromm is a better athlete, a four year starter, and had a lot of success as a college QB. That is why he was draft. He didn't spend most of his college career as a back up and when he did become a starter split time with another player.

 

[Rob0729]

I see some of the regular Brady fans are getting their panties in a wad over this post.

The reality is that Brady is far better QB than Mac Jones. Superior poise, pocket presence, arm strength, etc. He's better in every way; it's not even close. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time; Mac Jones is a poor QB.

But it's also true that Brady wasn't the player he became immediately upon entering the NFL, and that seems to be something some Brady fans cannot accept. In fact, claiming Brady was a finished product (or close to a finished product) immediately upon entering the NFL completely undermines the very essence/thesis of Brady: he was an incredibly hard worker, with attention to detail, willing to work on weaknesses, mentally tough, resilient, shockingly consistent in his day-to-day effort, preparation, and focus.

Yeah, I love Brady. I am not knocking the guy. One of the things that makes him the greatest of all time is that he was never satisfied with his talent and was always improving.

My only point was that teams didn't anything of him coming out of college. He wasn't even on most teams boards. If he didn't get in the right system that saw something in him and let him stay on roster and develop, he might have never played a down in the NFL. Not because he didn't deserve to play. But he just never got the opportunity to show he could play. I am sure there plenty of draft prospects that no one thought highly of but could have had Pro Bowl or even HOF careers if they were given the shot, but never did and never made it to the NFL.

And in today's NFL where teams don't value pure pocket passers, the odds of a Brady making an NFL roster or practice squad to develop for a year is far less than it was 23 years ago. Again, not a knock on Brady.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady won three Superbowls his first four years. Good lord, the revisionist history, on a Patsfans forum of all places, is really ridiculous.

His first four years AS A STARTER. He didn't play a down his first year. He really worked on retooling his body and improve his skills early in his career.

And Brady was a game manager as his first year as a starter. They basically asked him to run an efficient offense and not screw up. There are probably a half dozen QBs in the league in 2001 that they probably could have won the Super Bowl with. And this is not a knock on Brady, but just pointing out that he was far from a finished product his first few years. He was good, but not great yet.

And none of what you are saying has anything to do with how teams perceived Brady as a draft prospect.

 

[PATS16N0]

Brady was already the single most clutch quarterback in the league the first year he played. By 2004 he was OBVIOUSLY the best quarterback in the league to everyone but defiant Peyton Manning holdout fanboys.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady was already the single most clutch quarterback in the league the first year he played. By 2004 he was OBVIOUSLY the best quarterback in the league to everyone but defiant Peyton Manning holdout fanboys.

I am not sure you can say that first sentence. I mean if it wasn't for the tuck rule, he would have lost in the division round because he even admits he had no intention to throw the ball and would have been strip sacked by Woodson.

He was extremely clutch in the Super Bowl though.

And in 2004, two QBs got MVP votes. Manning and Vick. Not Brady. And Manning was the unanimous All Pro QB that year too. Brady was great by 2004. Even elite. But based on the MVP and All Pro voting, he wasn't obviously the best QB in the NFL by then.

 

[Wax Frog]

tl;dr

For me, these days, everything is TLDR. But again, latent masochist...

 

[PATS16N0]

archstanton is just here to troll. He showed up after the Pats got crushed by KC in 2014.

 

[PATS16N0]

I am not sure you can say that first sentence. I mean if it wasn't for the tuck rule, he would have lost in the division round because he even admits he had no intention to throw the ball and would have been strip sacked by Woodson.

He was extremely clutch in the Super Bowl though.

And in 2004, two QBs got MVP votes. Manning and Vick. Not Brady. And Manning was the unanimous All Pro QB that year too. Brady was great by 2004. Even elite. But based on the MVP and All Pro voting, he wasn't obviously the best QB in the NFL by then.

He’s on to the Tuck Rule now.

 

[archstanton543]

Pats fans are feeding fuel to the fire. Well, I don't really consider them Pats fans.

Ah so we're into purity tests now. Good times.

 

[archstanton543]

archstanton is just here to troll. He showed up after the Pats got crushed by KC in 2014.

I've been here for ages. My old account got locked out so I created a new one. I think my old name was oldskool138 but don't quote me on that. I don't remember what I did last week let alone 2014 or in the early 2000's.

 

[PATS16N0]

I've been here for ages. My old account got locked out so I created a new one. I think my old name was oldskool138 but don't quote me on that. I don't remember what I did last week let alone 2014 or in the early 2000's.

You were throwing shade on Tom Brady.

 

[archstanton543]

You were throwing shade on Tom Brady.

Dude, let it go. It was 10 years ago.

And he did have a horrendous game that game so it wasn't like the criticism came out of nowhere.

 

[PATS16N0]

Dude, let it go. It was 10 years ago.

And he did have a horrendous game that game so it wasn't like the criticism came out of nowhere.

You’re still doing the same schtick while shilling for someone as bad as Mac Jones. I’m just amazed nobody else has seen through your routine yet lol

 

[archstanton543]

You’re still doing the same schtick while shilling for someone as bad as Mac Jones. I’m just amazed nobody else has seen through your routine yet lol

They're just my honest opinions. If you don't like them or don't buy them, that's on you, my friend.

 

[203Pat]

I am not sure you can say that first sentence. I mean if it wasn't for the tuck rule, he would have lost in the division round because he even admits he had no intention to throw the ball and would have been strip sacked by Woodson.

He was extremely clutch in the Super Bowl though.

And in 2004, two QBs got MVP votes. Manning and Vick. Not Brady. And Manning was the unanimous All Pro QB that year too. Brady was great by 2004. Even elite. But based on the MVP and All Pro voting, he wasn't obviously the best QB in the NFL by then.

This is just insane. Are you a Jets fan in disguise?

 

[PATS16N0]

They're just my honest opinions. If you don't like them or don't buy them, that's on you, my friend.

So endless horrendous takes. Each worse than the next. Got it.

 

[Rob0729]

He’s on to the Tuck Rule now.

You said he was the single most clutch QB in the league the year he started playing. I was just using the tuck rule to show what a ridiculous statement you made.

You cry about "Brady haters" rewriting history to make Brady look bad, but you live in a Brady fantasyland.

 

[PATS16N0]

I am not sure you can say that first sentence. I mean if it wasn't for the tuck rule, he would have lost in the division round because he even admits he had no intention to throw the ball and would have been strip sacked by Woodson.

He was extremely clutch in the Super Bowl though.

And in 2004, two QBs got MVP votes. Manning and Vick. Not Brady. And Manning was the unanimous All Pro QB that year too. Brady was great by 2004. Even elite. But based on the MVP and All Pro voting, he wasn't obviously the best QB in the NFL by then.

The second half of this post (getting votes from fat journalists in a popularity contest is more impressive than moving the chains against stout playoff defenses) is genuinely arguably even worse than the first half of it (Brady would be nothing without the Tuck Rule).