Get rid of Donte, Keep Asante

[sebman2112]

Bill explained it last year in the end of the season wrap on WEEI. Said he respects all Asante did to develop himself, but coaching and system get some of that credit too. Said Dean worked with him tirelessly on technique. Remember, he wasn't valued very highly throughout the 2005 season and started the 2006 season as the RCB to Hobbs LCB, a position he claims he is uncomfortable with probably because it is perceived as the 2nd CB in a tandem. He was always something of a ballhawk with good instincts, but he didn't learn to catch the errant pass until last season. In this system Bill can put a ballhawk in position to capitalize on their skill without compromising the entire defense in an undisciplined fashion...

Yea, he used to break up passes, but didn't get many INT's because his hands weren't that great. in 2006 he worked with a Nerf football to improve his hands, and it worked. Now he seems to catch most of the passes he goes after.

Yea, Asante said something during 2006 about how he believed himself to be the No.1 CB, and that he didn't like where NE had used him at times. He said something like he should have been the one covering Lee Evans, not Hobbs. Thing is Hobbs has pretty much shutdown Lee Evans, so I can't understand Asante's point on that one.

 

[Hollywood_Brady]

assante samuel is an elite corner, there, you heard it from me... but we dont need an elite cb to be successful in defense especially a 8m/yr cb. it hinders us from being flexible with the cap... where ever samuel goes, im sure that team will benefit from his playmaking skills... based on our defensive scheme and philosophy, we can get by w/o assante, but if we do sign him, is more of a luxury signing than a need...

with that said, in a perfect world, i want to keep everybody intact for another magical sb run...

 

[sebman2112]

I don't know why I've seen $8M per year thrown around for Samuel. It's a well known fact that Asante wants $10M per.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

umm, guys, lets stay away from the system CB, no way to prove it...

also if the system makes our Cb's look great, wuts up with Hobbs?

either way, without takine Donte's like 8-10 mil cap hit next season and we cut him, we have that space for next yr....

i think Asante will be willing to take 6-8 a yr....and i dont think thats TOO much to ask....

replacing Donte will be a piece of cake, same cant be said for Asante...

also, Kelly wont be here next yr either most likely, and if he is, not that much money, and Colvin will restructure...

Bill's assessment is good enough for me.
Hobbs is a third year player, which is what Asante was when he absolutely sucked in 2005.
Donte's cap hit next year is $6.7M and can easily be lowered to $3.5 by simply converting his roster bonuses to signing bonus.
$8M per is Seymour money. Asante is no pro bowl DL. Brady averages $10M and Asante isn't on the same planet value wise. If he'll play for $6M or so per and not demand more than $12M in signing bonus or guarantees (with $7.8M already banked thanks to being tagged this season) they can get a deal done. They are not going to guarantee him upwards of $25M+ because even Seymour didn't get that and it's just a tad more than Brady got.
If we've learned nothing around here it should be that replacing a #2WR is not a piece of cake. And we've had a lot better luck drafting and grooming corners.
Colvin can't restructure, it's the last year of his deal. He will likely be extended though which will drop his cap dramatically. As for Washington, his money will help fund Randy. If Randy pulls a hammy in 2008 you would all be howling for Donte...
There is more than enough to go around for those willing to negotiate a reasonable deal.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't know why I've seen $8M per year thrown around for Samuel. It's a well known fact that Asante wants $10M per.

That is what some in the media reported, and I assume it was strategy driven, but if he's that delusional he's schit out of luck here 'cause that's what Brady averages...

 

[sebman2112]

Bill's assessment is good enough for me.
Hobbs is a third year player, which is what Asante was when he absolutely sucked in 2005.
Donte's cap hit next year is $6.7M and can easily be lowered to $3.5 by simply converting his roster bonuses to signing bonus.
$8M per is Seymour money. Asante is no pro bowl DL. Brady averages $10M and Asante isn't on the same planet value wise. If he'll play for $6M or so per and not demand more than $12M in signing bonus or guarantees (with $7.8M already banked thanks to being tagged this season) they can get a deal done. They are not going to guarantee him upwards of $25M+ because even Seymour didn't get that and it's just a tad more than Brady got.
If we've learned nothing around here it should be that replacing a #2WR is not a piece of cake. And we've had a lot better luck drafting and grooming corners.
Colvin can't restructure, it's the last year of his deal. He will likely be extended though which will drop his cap dramatically. As for Washington, his money will help fund Randy. If Randy pulls a hammy in 2008 you would all be howling for Donte...
There is more than enough to go around for those willing to negotiate a reasonable deal.

I pretty much agree with your entire post....good stuff.

 

[ALP]

if asante wants 10, we wont take him back, if he wants around 7, and is willing to accept that, i think well bring him back

 

[mgteich]

I don't think that the patriot offer will be of any relevance whatsoever to Asante's choice of where he plays. At very most, the patriot offer will be used to get more from other bidders.

if asante wants 10, we wont take him back, if he wants around 7, and is willing to accept that, i think well bring him back

 

[ATippett56]

If the Patriots trade down with the Dallas Cowboys, the Patriots could select two cornerbacks in the first round while signing a linebacker in free agency.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsLB.html

Kawika Mitchell UFA New York Giants

 

[patsonmyback]

If they got rid of the extra WR, who really isnt doing THAT much (i really really like Donte, dont get me wrong) and keep Asante, i would not mind at all....


give the money to the guy who is harder to replace....Asante is very good, and with Hobbs not doing too great (even if gay is doing amazing this year, defenetely resign him---maybe he playes CB2 next year)


let Chad Jackson replace Donte....but dont ruin this great defense....i LOVE it

Donte makes a great play every now and then, but he has never been on my list of game changing receivers. He's definitely replaceable. Asante is not.

 

[satz]

Donte makes a great play every now and then, but he has never been on my list of game changing receivers. He's definitely replaceable. Asante is not.

Question here is if moss is down for a week or 2 would you prefer donte or bet your chances on chad jackson again with him showing no proof that he can be a no1 for any game.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Asante is the man. Plain and simple.

Moss.
Asante.
Re-structure Rosey.

I'm glad someone mentioned Rosey.

Colvin is in the final year, so he can be extended at a significantly lower cap figure. If he and the team can't reach an agreement, then he will likely be cut. Thomas can take his place.

Tedy will likely retire. I doubt the team has enough cap room to continue paying him more than the veteran minimum. Moreover, Tedy's at the age when his producition will likely decline.

The team will take the brunt of the dead money hit from Dillon's contract this off season.

I like Stallworth but his salary is very high and I don't see the team keeping him.

Samuel's contract demands are very high. IMO, he walks. The Pats will be in line to take the best CB in the 2008 draft.

Re-signing Moss should be the #1 priority. If he walks, he could wind up in Indy. Think about it. I doubt the Colts will take a chance on having a 36 year old Marvin Harrison remaining healthy and playing at his career level in 2008. In other words, the Colts need to keep Pay-a-ton happy and if that means tossing aside Marvin like an old shoe, so be it. Moss respects Dungy and wouldn't mind playing with him or Peyton for top dollar. And, as we all know, Polian would love to stick it to the Pats.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO
1) There is exactly zero chance of Samuel playing for the pats next season.
2) We will be fine without him.

CORNERBACK
Extending Randall Gay need to be a high-priority item for the patriots. We will then have our starters and presumably go to camp with the following competing for the nickel and #4 CB positions: Chad Scott (an easy re-sign; alternatively we could have another jag or two in camp), Richardson, Eddie Jackson, and a couple of 2008 draft choices, including at least one Day One pick (first or second round).

SAFETY
We are set at safety with Harrison, Sanders, Meriweather and Baker. Yes, I know Wilson could come back, but I suspect that the Front Office isn't very interested. If he comes back, that's fine, but he certainly isn't necessary.

 

[PatSunday]

Do we need a defense? Re-sign the same wide receivers and have Hobbs and Gay play. We'll do better than most years, maybe even better than this year.

I think Samuel will want to stay with this team because he realizes the combo of Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Brady, and the o-line is more important than having Samuel on defense. Yes, he did want out, but once he saw how great Moss and Stallworth fit in, he decided to be quiet. If we win the Super Bowl, and now that we can give him a good reason to save up money (like to pay Moss), I think Samuel will be a happier camper.

 

[mcbee]

Do we need a defense? Re-sign the same wide receivers and have Hobbs and Gay play. We'll do better than most years, maybe even better than this year.

I think Samuel will want to stay with this team because he realizes the combo of Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Brady, and the o-line is more important than having Samuel on defense. Yes, he did want out, but once he saw how great Moss and Stallworth fit in, he decided to be quiet. If we win the Super Bowl, and now that we can give him a good reason to save up money (like to pay Moss), I think Samuel will be a happier camper.

Are you kidding? SAve money to pay other players? That would make him want to leave more. He wants to be top dog, not second fiddle to a bunch of offensive players. He thinks he's the top CB in the league.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So when did Johnny Cochran's Ghost join the damn board?

If it's not the line,
You must re-sign?

PFnV

 

[ATippett56]

IMHO
1) There is exactly zero chance of Samuel playing for the pats next season.
2) We will be fine without him.

CORNERBACK
Extending Randall Gay need to be a high-priority item for the patriots. We will then have our starters and presumably go to camp with the following competing for the nickel and #4 CB positions: Chad Scott (an easy re-sign; alternatively we could have another jag or two in camp), Richardson, Eddie Jackson, and a couple of 2008 draft choices, including at least one Day One pick (first or second round).

SAFETY
We are set at safety with Harrison, Sanders, Meriweather and Baker. Yes, I know Wilson could come back, but I suspect that the Front Office isn't very interested. If he comes back, that's fine, but he certainly isn't necessary.

At safety the Patriots are indeed set for next year:

Willie Andrews
Rashad Baker
Rodney Harrison
James Sanders
Brandon Meriweather

As for the cornerback position, Randall Gay is a high priority to re-sign in the offseason with an additional two cornerbacks selected in the first day (at least one selected in the first round) of the 2008 NFL Draft. Chad Scott blows while Mike Richardson is just another guy. As for a tenth defensive back, the New England Patriots have Eddie Jackson under contract for another year.

 

[Ring 6]

Why are people talking like we are going to have cap problems next year?
We currently have 42 players signed for next year and 11,000,000 of projected cap room.
The 42 signed include quite a few players that can/will be restructured, Colvin, Stallworth, Faulk to name a few.
We dont have a ton of top guys not signed through next year. Moss, Wilson, Bruschi, Gay, Asante.
I dont think its going to take a whole lot of manuevering to keep what we have, and add a few players in the draft.
The first year of long term deals is the cheapest, so surmising that Moss and Samuel are going to cost 8mill on next years cap is off the mark. (Unless Samuel gets tagged again).

 

[mgteich]

I strongly agree with your general conclusion that we are not in cap trouble and can keep everyone if we wish, in addition to signing our draft picks.

SOME COMMENTS
1) Colvin is the obvious to be extended, since his contract ends in 2008. His 2008 cap should be greatly reduced, adding to the $11M now available.
2) I don't think there are a lot of other opportunities for restructuring. I wouldn't restructure Stallworth or Faulk; but perhaps you are correct. If Washington is cut, there will enough savings to balance the future amounts pushed out for Faulk and Stallworth.
3) I think we will save cap money by not exercising Washington's option and signing Gaffney instead. The out-year savings is very large. 2008 savings would be about $1M.
4) I agree that the first year of Moss's contract won't be much.
5) I don't think Asante has any intention of playing for New England. And just BTW, he can't be franchised unless he injured and doesn't play enough reps.
6) I think that draft costs will be up unless we again push a couple of picks forward.
7) We need to extend Colvin. If not, he'll be expensive for his last season, but we WILL keep him.
8) We do need to re-sign Gay or Samuel. I think Gay is very doable.
9) We still have a free agent need at linebacker. It could be costly. Even if Bruschi and/or Seau are re-signed, we should expect their reps to decrease. In any case, we need another to add to our three top free agent linebackers. And yes, we certatinly could add a top draftee to the mix.
10) We need TWO Day One corners.
11) Finally, I would add a running back and a veteran backup QB. For me, these are the #3 and #4 need, after CB and LB.
12) Oh, I forgot, re-sign our snow angel.

Why are people talking like we are going to have cap problems next year?
We currently have 42 players signed for next year and 11,000,000 of projected cap room.
The 42 signed include quite a few players that can/will be restructured, Colvin, Stallworth, Faulk to name a few.
We dont have a ton of top guys not signed through next year. Moss, Wilson, Bruschi, Gay, Asante.
I dont think its going to take a whole lot of manuevering to keep what we have, and add a few players in the draft.
The first year of long term deals is the cheapest, so surmising that Moss and Samuel are going to cost 8mill on next years cap is off the mark. (Unless Samuel gets tagged again).

 

[ALP]

oww, this thread got really complicated....

why do most of you think there is no way for asante to come back? i think the odds are very good...

he IS playing very well, and Hobbs i think will get better...

Our O is good as long as we have Moss, but we need asante on D...and i think well sign him, if were willing to pay him 7mil for this yr, why not for more yrs?