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Get rid of Donte, Keep Asante

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ALP, Nov 19, 2007.

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  1. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    If they got rid of the extra WR, who really isnt doing THAT much (i really really like Donte, dont get me wrong) and keep Asante, i would not mind at all....


    give the money to the guy who is harder to replace....Asante is very good, and with Hobbs not doing too great (even if gay is doing amazing this year, defenetely resign him---maybe he playes CB2 next year)


    let Chad Jackson replace Donte....but dont ruin this great defense....i LOVE it
  2. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    I'm with ya. I like them both, but Asante is really, truly an elite corner. I always thought he was a little overrated, but he has proven me wrong. I think he is way harder to replace than Donte. It's not even debateable.
  3. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 Rookie

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    I like Donte and I have since he was a Saint but I'd rather have Asante back. Moss is priority #1, of course, then Asante, and if there's money left over and Stallworth will take the paycut then he's #3, otherwise it was nice for a year, Donte.
  4. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Um, unfortunately the question is not Donte or Asante, it's Moss or Asante. Unless one of them (Moss) is willing to take a discout, they probably can't keep both. Donte's as good as gone iMO, with CJ filling his role next year.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I do like Stallworth but between Chad Jackson or Gaffney (he would be a lot cheaper to re-sign), we can clearly get by just fine without Stallworth assuming we keep Moss. They $$$ can be well spent elsewhere, whether it's Asante or whoever else.
  6. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I hope we keep Donte..NOT SURE it's a choice...Moss is needed and keeping DS would be really good....but AS?? I think he wants the big money..and that will not happen here..no matter what...If he were reasonable, I might agree..but I do not think that will happen...
  7. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    We're paying AS $8M this year, so I guess you mean, we would'nt pay him that kind of money over several years? To me, a CB who can shut down his side of the field is one of the few players worth that kind of money - only a QB and Moss-like WR have greater impacts on the game. I'm not saying it can be done, but I think at the very least we make him a near-market offer.
  8. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Get rid of both of them. Asante is pretty good, but a lot of it is the system.

    Get some new blood in there, see how it goes. Use the cap space to sign Moss..that'll be 8M per in cap hit, most likely.
  9. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    I would certainly like to see us keep Asante. Especially since Hobss is our weak link now. Maybe it is because teams choose to go after him, but he is not all that good...
  10. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Wow, that's an ignorant post. Maybe we should say the same thing about Brady (Oh, that's right, everyone did used to say that about Brady).

    If you're not prepared to explain the "system," and more specifically, what it is about the "system" that makes him such a great playmaker, tackler, and cover guy, then....stfu.
  11. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Can we enjoy the season first and start thinking of this stuff in February?

    I don't like to see posts that start "Get rid of Donte..." during this big winning run.
  12. Denzera

    Denzera Rookie

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    Did Lee Evans even get a catch last night, given Samuel was covering him all night?

    edit: answered my own question.

    1-10-BUF 18 (Q1 14:53) (Shotgun) 7-J.Losman pass deep left to 83-L.Evans pushed ob at BUF 34 for 16 yards (27-E.Hobbs). Caught along sideline at BUF 34.
    2-10-BUF 30 (Q1 6:28) 7-J.Losman pass short right to 83-L.Evans pushed ob at BUF 39 for 9 yards (22-A.Samuel). Caught along sideline at BUF 39.
    2-10-BUF 41 (Q1 5:15) 7-J.Losman to BUF 30 for -11 yards (97-J.Green). FUMBLES (97-J.Green), and recovers at BUF 25. 7-J.Losman pass short right to 86-M.Gaines to NE 46 for 13 yards (22-A.Samuel).
    3-6-BUF 33 (Q2 3:05) (Shotgun) 7-J.Losman pass deep middle to 83-L.Evans to BUF 49 for 16 yards (37-R.Harrison). Caught at BUF 49. New England challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 7-J.Losman pass incomplete deep middle to 83-L.Evans. Pass bounced to receiver at BUF 49.
    2-7-NE 34 (Q3 6:18) 7-J.Losman pass incomplete short left to 83-L.Evans (27-E.Hobbs) [75-V.Wilfork]. Receiver and coverage along sideline at NE 22.
    1-10-BUF 47 (Q4 11:55) 7-J.Losman pass incomplete deep middle to 83-L.Evans (27-E.Hobbs). Receiver and coverage at NE 5.
    1-10-BUF 35 (Q4 3:49) 22-F.Jackson right tackle to BUF 38 for 3 yards (22-A.Samuel, 94-T.Warren).
    3-5-BUF 40 (Q4 2:24) (Shotgun) 7-J.Losman pass short left to 83-L.Evans to BUF 46 for 6 yards (27-E.Hobbs). Caught in flat at BUF 43.
    2-6-midfield (Q4 1:12) (Shotgun) 7-J.Losman pass short left to 83-L.Evans ran ob at NE 41 for 9 yards. Caught along sideline at NE 41.

    Asante was covering Evans most of the game and essentially took him out of the game. Plus made a tackle on a running play and on the broken-play fumble-recovery-scramble-pass for a 1st down routine. Not a bad performance. Did roughly the same to Reggie Wayne too.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  13. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    yeah, I saw at least one mid range grab
  14. cartmen

    cartmen Rookie

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    I love them both but if it comes to nut cutting time I would have to say they may loose both and give that money to Moss and other guys heading to FA. Gay is playing like everyone thought he could finally and is staying healthy doing it. AS is gonna want multi year 8-10 mil. That aint gonna happen not when BB is so good at hiding a CB short comings. Gay is good enough that the gap is not hard to hide in a scheme and with the O being as bad ass as it is they dont need to be #1 in D. they can be top 10 and still win 13 games a year for years to come. I say they let both of them go take that 1st rounder and trade down for a lower 1st rounder and they draft a CB and another saftey or perhaps a LB. Yes I know the pats dont draft LB's often but what else do they need??
  15. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rookie

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    Asante is the man. Plain and simple.

    Moss.
    Asante.
    Re-structure Rosey.
  16. Dragda

    Dragda Yes, it's really me... PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #93 Jersey

    People said about Brady: Get rid of both of them and let's get some new blood in here? I waded through a lot of Bledsoe vs. Brady posts and I never heard anything remotely like that. Telling people to stfu and posting stuff like that in retort makes me wonder if your not just a troll from another team trying to start crap.
  17. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. I just don't see Asante coming down on his demands and I don't
    see PATs paying that much. Gay and Hobbs may be next years starters
    which isn't all that bad.
    This doesn't mean Donte is automatically in but I bet PATs will try to bend
    a little more to keep this receiver core intact for next year.
  18. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    It's not ignorant at all. Asante benefits greatly from coaching and the system.

    Other players who've left Branch, Givens, Patten haven't done as well in other systems.

    You'll see when they get rid of him and he's a good but not great CB. Until then, don't tell people to 'stfu' as it's not your board.

    Basically, I think they could take a good athletic CB from college and make him a very good CB pretty quickly...and he'd cost about 1/8th as much as Samuel, if that.

    Why have all these draft picks if you have no place to put them? 8M per year is steep. I think he's good, just not as good as he thinks he is. They need to save money somewhere if they want to sign moss at 8M per or so...what he brings, can't be taught, IMO. He's unique.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  19. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    It seems unlikely that they'll keep either--Stallworth for the reasons mentioned (apparently adequate replacements, etc.), and Samuel for cost. My understanding is that they can't franchise him again, and Samuel will be looking for the biggest deal possible. Knowing the way the league works, there will definitely be some team out there that will trump the Pats.
  20. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is anyone else worried about the lack of quality CBs in the pipeline? I think we gotta resign Asante.
  21. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Learn how to read. He said Asante is only good because of the system.

    Maybe you should read all the relevant posts before you accuse me of being a troll.

    I'll b waiting 4 your apology, which I'm sure will not be forthcoming.
  22. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    I just have a problem with people making the "system" argument. What is it about the system that helps Asante cover so well? He plays just as well in zone as when he's man2man. He tackles well. Unless you're prepared to explain what it is about the "system" that makes him good (which you clearly aren't), then like I said...

    Also, Branch and Givens were fine players for us, but no one in their right mind would claim that either one of them was even one of the 20 best WR's in the league. Branch has been about as good as he was with us - above average. Givens has suffered catastrophic injuries. Patten is playing well right now. And so is, believe it or not, old Ty Law. So don't give me that media garbage about "players suck when they leave the patriots."

    By all accounts, including Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick who paid him like a top-5 corner this year, Samuel is an ELITE corner. There are some that would say he is the best CB in the league. So, again, it may be impossible to resign him at $9-10M per year, but I bet we try.
  23. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Did you pay attention to the fact that it was Hobbs on Evens during some of those plays you quoted? Lee Evans has usually been covered by Hobbs the past few years, and for some reason, he generally does absolutely nothing against the Patriots.

    Asante Samuel covered Moorehead and others a lot more than he covered Reggie Wayne against the Colts. Hobbs got a lot of time against Wayne in this years game, and he covered him for the most part in the AFCCG. I agree that Asante is very good, but let's not forget what's actually taken place in these games. Oh, and I like how that was the first TD Hobbs has given up this season, and some of us are getting on him for it, when Asante had already given up 3 TD's prior to the Buffalo game. Let's also forget Hobbs' heads up play where he cought the fumble out of the air, and returned it for a TD in this very same Buffalo game.

    I'm going to tell all those saying "Keep Asante, and let Stallworth go" that you are completely off. That's right, Asante Samuel has nothing to do with NE's ability to keep Stallworth past this season, and Semual's leaving won't be effected by Stallworth. Here's the deal, NE has already offered the guy a decent contract, and about the max they were willing to offer. Samuel said the offer was almost insulting, and he wanted $10M+ per year, with something like $30M+ over the first three years. He wouldn't agree to sign his tender that earns him $7.79M for one year, until NE agreed not to franchise him next year, if they won 12 games.

    Asante IS going to hit free agency, someone WILL give him what he wants, and it is NOT going to be the Patriots.

    Sorry, but I really believe you are dreaming if you think Asante Samuel's wearing a Patriots uniform in 2008. Yea, I'd like to keep the guy to, and hopefully he'll come around, but I wouldn't bank on it.

    Also, in the past BB and Pioli have proven more than capable of finding replacements in the secondary, and they've been able to get by with other teams practice squad players, so I don't understand why any of you worry so much about Asante moving on. Oh, Let's also remember NE has some pretty nice draft picks this year, and there is going to be a decent amount of top level DB's in this years draft for NE to choose from.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  24. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    They paid him like an ELITE corner for a one year franchise, which is higher cap wise as there is no guaranteed money after that year...I don't think it means they're willing to pay him that much on average.

    Part of the "system" as I put it, is just the coaching system. They took an UDFA rookie and played most of the year they won the super bowl against Philly. BB has a background as a DB coach and defensive coach and apparantly can take a good college DB and make a starter out of him.

    I don't think Samuel is the "best in the league", not even close. He misses tackles and players do get open on him. Nice tackle of Wayne in the Colts game for a PI...at least Hobbs (not that I think he is as good as Samuel) interference was a bad call.

    He wants what, 2.5x the money of Vrabel? 2x of Colvin or Thomas? As much as Brady almost? As much as Moss will get? 2nd highest paid player on the team? For that reason alone, I think they should get rid of him. He just isn't being reasonable. Borderline delusional, IMO.

    They made him, they can make another just like him.

    Who won't be signed at top $? Mankins? He's good, sign him! Moss? For sure. Watson? Yep! Sanders? Yep! Wilfork? You bet! You can't sign everyone to veteran contracts, the pie is only so big.
  25. MoLewisrocks

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    Who has Asante "shut down" per se?

    Hobbs seems to be drawing the primary receiver on the somewhat offensively anemic teams we have faced.

    Whether or not Asante is resigned will have less to do with what we can afford than what we are willing to pay. They will not overpay. They can afford to keep them all if Moss and Samuel are remotely reasonable. Somehow I don't think Bill wants to go back to just managing. If Moss goes down I want Stallworth on the field, not CJ or Gaffney who have done nothing to prove they can be a #1 in this or any offense...
  26. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Here we go again. Patriots don't flip their CB's. Knowing this, teams may try to line up their #1 against Hobbs. Ever wonder why you see Hobbs 10-15 times a game and Samuel only 3-5 times? Because teams don't throw near Samuel if they have a choice.
  27. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Right as rain. But it still doesn't mean he's worth $10M. The art of the team is getting the best players you can get...provided they all fit under the cap. Getting rid of him frees money. It's not that he's "not good".
  28. MoLewisrocks

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    Bill explained it last year in the end of the season wrap on WEEI. Said he respects all Asante did to develop himself, but coaching and system get some of that credit too. Said Dean worked with him tirelessly on technique. Remember, he wasn't valued very highly throughout the 2005 season and started the 2006 season as the RCB to Hobbs LCB, a position he claims he is uncomfortable with probably because it is perceived as the 2nd CB in a tandem. He was always something of a ballhawk with good instincts, but he didn't learn to catch the errant pass until last season. In this system Bill can put a ballhawk in position to capitalize on their skill without compromising the entire defense in an undisciplined fashion...
  29. PatsWickedPissah

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    Disable Jersey

    Let some other paniced GM over pay for Asante. Ask youself just how well Denver is doing with their pair of highly paid corners this season? I'd love to keep the guy but how many times do we need to go over the fact that he wants TOP dollar and the Pats won't pay it? Not value received.

    That being said, the Pats will likely draft a CB high next year and should be able to keep Blue.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  30. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Wait, what? The "coaching and the system" help him? Who is this clown Belichick? Tell him to STFU. Asante gets Champ Bailey money! Now! Hand it over.

    They trained him, they can train another. Maybe Gay and Andrews or a vet CB who wants to play with a good team will step up.

    Should they pay him if he wants 12M per year? Yes? How about 15M? 20? How about A-Rod money? Why not? It's not like he could ever be replaced.
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