Bedard on the "reform DPI" bandwagon

[QuantumMechanic]

Bedard: Blanket Coverage: DPI penalties are out of control

I for one would like to see a 2-tiered system. One would be for the vast majority of DPI calls and would be 15 yards or the spot, whichever is less, and no automatic first down. The other would be for flagrant DPI and would be the spot.

In general, I'd like to get rid of the automatic first down for all defensive penalties except unsportsmanlike conduct and personal fouls.

A fairly good discussion of Bedard's article here: FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Time to Get Pass Interference Under Control

 

[Tony2046]

Good read.

When teams have plays designed to draw DPI flags (see Rat Birds last year) it's time to alter the rule. (Surprisingly the Ravens don't have any this year.)

Another penalty I would like to see changed, although not as bad as DPI, is Offensive holding. Specifically O line holding. 10 yards for a penalty that happens practically every play seems to be excessive and gives the refs too much control to kill drives. Would rather see a 5 yard penalty and only if it happened within the vicinity of the play action.

 

[Froob]

I'd rather leave it and make it challengeable.

 

[Deus Irae]

When teams have plays designed to draw DPI flags (see Rat Birds last year) it's time to alter the rule.

Why? Teams have plays/tricks designed to draw players offsides, free receivers via semi-legal picks, etc.... Why should PI be specifically targeted?

 

[Deus Irae]

The spot foul argument is foolish, and should be a non-starter. He does have two suggestions which most people would be fine with, as they've been screaming for them for years:

Start enforcing the actual rule. The NFL rule book states that interference should be called when a player “significantly hinders the progress of an eligible player of such player’s opportunity to catch the ball.” Also, “if there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference.” Let’s get back to the “significantly hinders” part of the rule.

• The rule also states that there is no interference if the pass is “clearly uncatchable,” so let’s bring back the enforcement of catchable passes. When I was growing up in the 1980s, every kid on the playground knew the uncatchable ball signal and enforced it in pickup games. It’s used so seldomly now I doubt kids even know what the signal is.

PI call craziness exists because the league wants it to. It could easily get the officials to tighten up the calls, but it chooses not to, because the league wants points on the board.

 

[The Gr8est]

Intentional grounding penalty includes loss of down, but there are so many defensive penalties that have automatic 1st down as part of the penalty, which is a killer, say, on 3rd and 23 where defensive holding gives the automatic 1st down.

Why doesn't offensive holding bring an automatic 4th down?

It's rhetorical, I know why the NFL* doesn't have automatic 4th downs, because offense.

 

[Tony2046]

Why? Teams have plays/tricks designed to draw players offsides, free receivers via semi-legal picks, etc.... Why should PI be specifically targeted?

Good points.

My perspective is from giving the refs less ability to change the game. Some of the DPI's are just ticky tack calls but have the ability to be game changers. Green Bay 66 yards on one call?

That was the reasoning behind my post but maybe Froob's "make it challengeable" post is closer to the remedy.

 

[Froob]

Why? Teams have plays/tricks designed to draw players offsides, free receivers via semi-legal picks, etc.... Why should PI be specifically targeted?

It's okay until someone does it to the Ravens. Then it will be fixed.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's okay until someone does it to the Ravens. Then it will be fixed.

If Moss was still here and in his prime, Patriots fans would be loving the way they call PI today.

 

[patfanken]

Bedard: Blanket Coverage: DPI penalties are out of control

I for one would like to see a 2-tiered system. One would be for the vast majority of DPI calls and would be 15 yards or the spot, whichever is less, and no automatic first down. The other would be for flagrant DPI and would be the spot.

In general, I'd like to get rid of the automatic first down for all defensive penalties except unsportsmanlike conduct and personal fouls.

A fa irly good discussion of Bedard's article here: FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Time to Get Pass Interference Under Control

This is the 3rd really exceptional article today. Posts that give you insight, are about football, and ask you to think. Thanks for all who posted them.

DI and I are in partial agreement in that the most important change of the PI that needs to happen is that they start to enforce the rule AS it was written. Now even announcers think think that just contact should cause a PI, yet the rule states clearly that the receiver has to be HINDERED from catching the ball.

The second part of the rule that needs emphasizing is the uncatchable ball part of it, as Bedard states. Way too many times teams are rewarded for bad plays. I'd add a third emphasis and make sure that there cannot be PI if the defender has established the position FIRST. Having the receiver merely run over the defender and get the call like what happened to Ryan (in the Miami game IIRC) is simply unfair.

Unlike DI, I'm all for making a 15 yd maximum on most PI's, but would add the category of "flagrant PI" that would be a spot foul, to alleviate the fear of DB's simply tackling a receiver that beat. So on this aspect I agree with QM

Where I disagree with QM is that I think both PI and Defensive Holding should remain automatic first downs. Now I hate it when an defense get called for holding on a 3rd and 24, but that should be a part of situational football. Players should be aware.

I'm OK with reviewing PI's, but only on those called by the refs. Giving HC's the right to challenge calls that might have been missed simply goes too far and would REALLY slow the game down.

Another rule that has bothered me that I'd like changed is the "half the distance to the GL" rule. I think that rule is unfair to the offense. If a team is on the 16 and a personal foul is called, the ball would be put at the 8, and that is just wrong. Why should the defense be awarded 7 critical yards when THEY got the penalty. The ball should go to at least the 2 if not the 1.

Finally my oldest pet peeve, and one that is constantly shot down , which is I HATE that offenses only have to "cross the plane of the GL" to get 6 points. I take the word touchdown literally. Like Rugby, you need to touch the ball DOWN in the endzone, or in the case of a pass, have your feet IN the endzone when you catch the ball. So when a RB tries to jump over the pile, and gets pushed back, without having the ball "touch down" in the end zone, too bad. Like up and try again. Put the ball AT the GL, but no touching down, no score.

And this rant is over.

 

[Froob]

If Moss was still here and in his prime, Patriots fans would be loving the way they call PI today.

The hilarious thing about Moss is the one time they got him for pushing off he didn't even do it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Unlike DI, I'm all for making a 15 yd maximum on most PI's, but would add the category of "flagrant PI" that would be a spot foul, to alleviate the fear of DB's simply tackling a receiver that beat them as stated by QM.

The 15 yard DPI is an abomination, and everyone who helped to get it instituted in college should be flayed alive on national television, in order to serve as a warning to others.

15 yard foul DPI is grossly unfair to the offense, if the penalty is committed any real distance downfield. Furthermore, the current spot foul DPI is actually a defensive help when the DPI is committed less than the 15 yards you're talking about, so you'll be harming defenses on short routes, unless you further screw over the offense by not even giving them the full 15 yards on short routes.

 

[patfanken]

The 15 yard DPI is an abomination, and everyone who helped to get it instituted in college should be flayed alive on national television, in order to serve as a warning to others.

15 yard foul DPI is grossly unfair to the offense, if the penalty is committed any real distance downfield. Furthermore, the current spot foul DPI is actually a defensive help when the DPI is committed less than the 15 yards you're talking about, so you'll be harming defenses on short routes, unless you further screw over the offense by not even giving them the full 15 yards on short routes.

I see your point.....to a degree. But the fact is that most passes in the NFL are thrown LESS than 15 yds down field so by making it 15 yds for all PI's (except for flagrant PI's) it would even out over time. Not totally fair to either side for a specific call, but "pretty fair" over the long haul for both....and a lot simpler for the refs to enforce.

But DI, don't get hung up on this single point. The fact is that a great majority of the issues fans can coaches have with the PI call would be solved if they simply called the play AS IT IS WRITTEN in the rule book.

 

[RobertWeathers]

1/2 of the problem is the yardage assessed. 5yds, 15yds, spot of the foul. Just make it the spot of the foul for Gods sake.

1/2 of the problem is what is DPI? The refs f-up the call more often than not.

The rule needs more clarity and simplification. My beefs are in bold.

I understand why the refs favor the receiver but it annoys me. I can only imagine how BB feels.

ARTICLE 2. PROHIBITED ACTS BY BOTH TEAMS WHILE THE BALL IS IN THE AIR
Acts that are pass interference include, but are not limited to:

1. Contact by a player who is not playing the ball that restricts the opponent’s opportunity to make the catch. So of the DB is standing still is that DPI?
2. Playing through the back of an opponent in an attempt to make a play on the ball. So if he touches the back it is DPI?
3. Grabbing an opponent’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass. This is clear.
4. Extending an arm across the body of an opponent, thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, and regardless of whether the player committing such act is playing the ball. SO the DB does not have a right to the ball if their arm is there first?
5. Cutting off the path of an opponent by making contact with him, without playing the ball. They blow this call all the time.
6. Hooking an opponent in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the opponent’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving. Reasonable rule but hat if the WR does not turn?
7. Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass. Can call this everytime.

2016 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations

 

[skspikex2]

They need to cut down defensive holding or illegal contact to just 5 yards without the first down.

 

[XLIX]

Bedard: Blanket Coverage: DPI penalties are out of control

I for one would like to see a 2-tiered system. One would be for the vast majority of DPI calls and would be 15 yards or the spot, whichever is less, and no automatic first down. The other would be for flagrant DPI and would be the spot.

I think that just opens another can o' worms as refs will have a whole 'nother level of bad calls to get wrong.

I think the idea of making it reviewable makes the most sense.

 

[XLIX]

Furthermore, the current spot foul DPI is actually a defensive help when the DPI is committed less than the 15 yards you're talking about, so you'll be harming defenses on short routes, unless you further screw over the offense by not even giving them the full 15 yards on short routes.

You seem to think college does this. They don't. It is a spot foul with a 15 yard maximum, so there's no 15 yard gain on a short route for DPI.

 

[Nehalem]

If Moss was still here and in his prime, Patriots fans would be loving the way they call PI today.

Didn't work out so well for Gronk last year

 

[varjao]

The clowns and bedard had a nice discussion on this and Nfl favoring offenses this week, screwing up the game with all these recent rules, tuesday I think.

 

[XLIX]

I just don't see any solution that pleases everyone. The NFL is too punitive for bad calls, the NCAA is too easy for PI on deep passes.

I think the only real solution is to do everything possible to eliminate the bad calls, hence my support for replay. (I don't particularly care what the NCAA does)