Adios, Donald Brown

[BradyFTW!]

Not really surprised, called it yesterday in my roster projection. Even with Lewis out, Brown still had to beat out Bolden as the backup pass-catching RB by a wide enough margin to nullify Bolden's ST value. Didn't happen. There may have still been room on the roster for him if Blount and/or Gaffney had struggled to recover, but they both look good.

So, between Blount, White, Bolden, Gaffney, and Develin, we already go 5 deep at RB, and there just isn't much that Brown offers against that would make you inclined to take him over any of those guys.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Not reaching for Forte hurts now for sure.

In a vacuum, sure. He's better than White. But when you account for how much he's getting paid, the Jets can have him. He's still a really, really good receiver at RB--would instantly be the best we have by a wide margin--but strictly as a rusher he's dropped off to the point that I'm not sure he's significantly better than White anymore.

For $4M per year ($3M per year guaranteed) over the next 3 years, on a guy who's already in a pronounced decline and on the wrong side of 30, I'd rather lean on White and Bolden on the cheap until Lewis comes back. We need every dollar we can find, going forward, to try to lock up at least 2 of Collins/Hightower/Butler long-term. In an offseason where we already had to trade Chandler Jones because there just isn't enough money to go around going forward, I would've been pretty pissed if we committed $9M guaranteed to Matt Forte.

 

[BradyFTW!]

so what about DJ Spiller ? .... Saints may be in search for a new DT

Knile Davis probably still best option .... Kansas City is in search at DE and CB

Tennessee would like to get something for Sankey ...

If we could get Spiller without giving much up for him, that would be a great haul for us. I think he'd be really, really good in this offense, and once the Saints eat his guaranteed money his contract isn't bad at all.

Not a fan of Davis or Sankey, but if we traded for either they would probably be competing directly with Tyler Gaffney.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Kniles Davis isn't an option. Guy is horrible. He couldn't step up last year for the Chiefs when Charles went down and 2 rookies made him expendable.

I pretty much agree, in that from the times I've watched him I can't really see how Davis is an upgrade over Tyler Gaffney. I think Davis pretty much sucks. I'm pretty much okay with the RBs we have now, probably because I seem to be higher on Gaffney and Bolden than most, and I don't want to throw future cap dollars at the position knowing that we're about to have to extend Hightower/Collins/Butler.

But just as a general point, Belichick has gone out of his way in the past to target guys who fit the profile you're describing. Guy who flashed some potential at one in a limited role, is going to be a FA at the end of the season, has been passed on the depth chart and therefore can be had for almost nothing.

 

[Deus Irae]

but strictly as a rusher he's dropped off to the point that I'm not sure he's significantly better than White anymore.

Come on, now.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Just read that Ridley might not make it in Detroit, mostly due to how their 7th round pick has been excelling and would be a better value. I know the guy has a Jets tattoo and been in the fumblerooski doghouse, but...

He looked really, really bad last year. It's weird, we're so used to seeing players return from ACL tears that knee injuries in general are starting to seem routine, but Ridley's was really bad. Multiple ligament tears (his was ACL, MCL) are still a fairly iffy proposition, and Ridley may be on the wrong side of that. I was hopeful for him that he'd just need some more time to recover, but if he can't make the Lions' roster then I think this might be it for him.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Come on, now.

I'm not saying that as a compliment to White, at all. I think there's a solid case to be made that he's one of the 10 worst RBs in the league at grinding out yards on the ground (I'd say in the running for worst if I hadn't seen Dexter McCluster play, and I think he's still technically a WR/RB). But for the last two years Forte has looked only marginally better when relied upon to run between the tackles.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Has any ex-Colt EVER succeeded with the Pats under BB?

The Colts generally draft somewhere between 0 and 2 decent players per year - few enough that they can afford to extend anyone who doesn't suck. So anyone who makes it to free agency after being drafted by the Colts almost certainly sucks, pretty much by definition.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not saying that as a compliment to White, at all. I think there's a solid case to be made that he's one of the 10 worst RBs in the league at grinding out yards on the ground (I'd say in the running for worst if I hadn't seen Dexter McCluster play, and I think he's still technically a WR/RB). But for the last two years Forte has looked only marginally better when relied upon to run between the tackles.

Forte ran for 4.1 last year, on 218 carries. James White racked up the whopping 2.5. If you've seen something about Forte during this training camp, I'm more than willing to have you pass that on. Otherwise, your hyperbole is in overdrive.

 

[Joey007]

The Colts generally draft somewhere between 0 and 2 decent players per year - few enough that they can afford to extend anyone who doesn't suck. So anyone who makes it to free agency after being drafted by the Colts almost certainly sucks, pretty much by definition.

They're only good because they literally fell into Luck.

They'd be a doormat, 3-4 win team right now if they didn't tank so bad in 2011.

 

[PatsFan2]

Just read that Ridley might not make it in Detroit, mostly due to how their 7th round pick has been excelling and would be a better value. I know the guy has a Jets tattoo and been in the fumblerooski doghouse, but...

Average runner -Fumbler plus is cannot catch a cold no thanks on Riddler!

 

[BradyFTW!]

It's a ridiculous claim. Forte ran for 4.1 last year, on 218 carries. James White racked up the whopping 2.5

Context matters. For one, you're dealing with a tiny sample size, which you'd be the first to point out if it wasn't advantageous to your claim not to. I'm also positive that you're aware that the 2.5 YPC came running behind a patchwork OL that was arguably the worst in the league by the time Lewis was out and White was getting significant snaps. And for good measure, Edelman and Gronk were injured too. There may be RBs that could have succeeded in that situation, but White clearly isn't one of them, and for that matter neither is Forte.

And if we're completely disregarding tiny sample sizes, then I'd just point to 2014 as being far more relevant, since White's 4.2 YPC then came behind an OL manned by actual healthy NFL talent. Not even remarkably good talent, just healthy-ish and not ****ty.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Why would I foolishly limit my search list to RBs who'd sign for just $80k guaranteed?

You said better options were overlooked. I'm simply pointing out that some of the better options were MUCH more expensive. I was hoping for Forte for a while. For $10 million guaranteed? No thanks.

If we had spent on a RB and then went with JAGs at another spot and got hit by injuries, we could make the same argument somewhere else on the roster.

 

[Deus Irae]

Context matters. For one, you're dealing with a tiny sample size, which you'd be the first to point out if it wasn't advantageous to your claim not to. I'm also positive that you're aware that the 2.5 YPC came running behind a patchwork OL that was arguably the worst in the league by the time Lewis was out and White was getting significant snaps. And for good measure, Edelman and Gronk were injured too. There may be RBs that could have succeeded in that situation, but White clearly isn't one of them, and for that matter neither is Forte.

And if we're completely disregarding tiny sample sizes, then I'd just point to 2014 as being far more relevant, since White's 4.2 YPC then came behind an OL manned by actual healthy NFL talent. Not even remarkably good talent, just healthy-ish and not ****ty.

Context matters? OK.

Forte hasn't sucked, even if he hasn't been spectacular. White, on the other hand, has been absolute horseshit. Forte's had to do it on a ****ty team, too. White's had the benefit of running as a change of pace back who's expected to pretty much only catch passes, as opposed to running against a focused opponent, the way Forte has had to do.

And, pointing to 2014? Again, come on.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You said better options were overlooked. I'm simply pointing out that some of the better options were MUCH more expensive. I was hoping for Forte for a while. For $10 million guaranteed? No thanks.

If we had spent on a RB and then went with JAGs at another spot and got hit by injuries, we could make the same argument somewhere else on the roster.

With the added caveat that we have a bunch of our own young talent that requires big pay raises within the next year. Maybe some people are willing to throw substantial guaranteed money at in-decline RBs on the wrong side of 30, but I'm absolutely not. Not if it makes our chances of re-upping Collins/Butler/Hightower even 5% less likely.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Context matters? OK.

Forte hasn't sucked, even if he hasn't been spectacular. White, on the other hand, has been absolute horseshit. Forte's had to do it on a ****ty team, too. White's had the benefit of running as a change of pace back who's expected to pretty much only catch passes, as opposed to running against a focused opponent, the way Forte has had to do.

If you've concluded that James White is "absolute horseshit" to the point that even bad runners are clearly much better than him, all based on a grand total of 22 carries behind a line that nobody on this roster (or possibly any roster) could effectively run behind, then that's that. It's a ridiculous, asinine conclusion, and one that I'm sure you'd be the first to call out if you weren't stuck defending it due to your prior oversights, but that's that.

 

[Deus Irae]

You said better options were overlooked. I'm simply pointing out that some of the better options were MUCH more expensive. I was hoping for Forte for a while. For $10 million guaranteed? No thanks.

If we had spent on a RB and then went with JAGs at another spot and got hit by injuries, we could make the same argument somewhere else on the roster.

You weren't pointing out anything. You tried to put the Brown signing in an inapplicable box.

 

[Triumph]

 

[Deus Irae]

If you've concluded that James White is "absolute horseshit" based on a grand total of 22 carries behind a line that nobody on this (or possibly any roster) could effectively run behind, then that's that. It's a ridiculous, asinine conclusion, and one that I'm sure you'd be the first to call out if you weren't stuck defending it due to your prior oversights, but that's that.

You've concluded he's at some level, just as I have, regardless of what that level might be. Without doing so, you couldn't have made your initial claim about where Forte would rank in comparison to him, so stop with the straw man. And, given that you've already stated your opinion of White's level, in this very thread:

I'm not saying that as a compliment to White, at all. I think there's a solid case to be made that he's one of the 10 worst RBs in the league at grinding out yards on the ground (I'd say in the running for worst if I hadn't seen Dexter McCluster play, and I think he's still technically a WR/RB).

I think we should just dismiss this post of yours and move on.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Alfred Morris was the guy to go after. Will make only about a $400,000 more this year than Brown would have made. Signed for 2 years $3.5 million. Pats should have been on that with their lack of quality depth at the position. With Elliot now, the Cowboys may trade one of their Morris or McFadden.