OT: Cavs vs. Warriors (Who Wins the NBA Finals?)

[Patsfanin Philly]

You're kidding, I hope. Of course Mr. 1-8 in the NBA finals is going to defend James.

And the only reason he got that "1" was because Russell retired. At least Elgin Baylor and West could hang their heads knowing they lost to legendary Celtic teams. LeBron hasn't won a title without Dwayne Wade......

 

[1960Pats]

1. Russell (We all know he couldn't score with those guys. More rings than fingers....)

More rings than fingers and that's counting thumbs.

 

[1960Pats]

For the uninformed one here who wants to throw stats out there to claim that any players is/was better than Bill Russell.

- Russell led USF to NCAA championships in 1955 & 1956, including 55 straight wins. He was a scoring leader, shot blocker and the best defensive player of his time.
- Russell also represented USF in track and field as a 440 runner and was a world ranked high-jumper.
- In 1956 Red Auerbach wanted Russell for his defense and rebounding even though NBA centers of that time were defined by their offense.
- After Red pulled off a trade for Russell he was allowed to join the Olympic basketball team for the 56 Olympics. Russell led that team in scoring on the way to the gold medal.
- Prior to Russell's arrival the Celts never won a title.
- Once Russell started to play the Celts went on to win 11 titles in his 13 seasons with the team. During that run came the season that Wilt averaged 50 points per game and scored 100 in one game. Russell was named the NBA MVP for that season.
- During Russell's last 3 years with the team he was the player/coach and they won 2 more titles and lost in the NBA finals in the other.
- Once Russell left the Celts didn't win again for 5 more years, and never again with the regularity of the Russell led teams.

You could take all of the accomplishments of the 3 top NBA players after him and they still might not add up to the accomplishments of Russell.

 

[1960Pats]

Oh, one more thing on the amazing stats of Wilt "The Stilt" Chamberlain.

During his early years in the NBA there wasn't any such thing as offensive goaltending or interferrence. That was when Wilt used his bulk to get under the basket, wait for his team's outside shots to get to the hoop and then jump up and guide the ball into the net with his hands. If the ball hit his hands he would be credited with the basket. I'm not sure exactly when that was stopped but I think it was.

 

[letekro]

Which basketball experts would take LBJ over Bill Russell?

SI's 50 greatest players in NBA history

All-Time #NBArank: The greatest players ever

 

[letekro]

For the uninformed one here who wants to throw stats out there to claim that any players is/was better than Bill Russell.

- Russell led USF to NCAA championships in 1955 & 1956, including 55 straight wins. He was a scoring leader, shot blocker and the best defensive player of his time.
- Russell also represented USF in track and field as a 440 runner and was a world ranked high-jumper.
- In 1956 Red Auerbach wanted Russell for his defense and rebounding even though NBA centers of that time were defined by their offense.
- After Red pulled off a trade for Russell he was allowed to join the Olympic basketball team for the 56 Olympics. Russell led that team in scoring on the way to the gold medal.
- Prior to Russell's arrival the Celts never won a title.
- Once Russell started to play the Celts went on to win 11 titles in his 13 seasons with the team. During that run came the season that Wilt averaged 50 points per game and scored 100 in one game. Russell was named the NBA MVP for that season.
- During Russell's last 3 years with the team he was the player/coach and they won 2 more titles and lost in the NBA finals in the other.
- Once Russell left the Celts didn't win again for 5 more years, and never again with the regularity of the Russell led teams.

You could take all of the accomplishments of the 3 top NBA players after him and they still might not add up to the accomplishments of Russell.

These are all team accomplishments. Russell played with an AVERAGE of 3 HOFers per year. There was no free agency. Russ had a very limited offensive game. Since when does offense not matter? He averaged 12.6 ppg after the league widened the key in the middle of his career.

 

[RobertWeathers]

SI's 50 greatest players in NBA history

All-Time #NBArank: The greatest players ever

No question McCallum is an expert. I do have some issues with his list but overall its ok.

Of course as an individual player he would take LBJ.

If I was putting $100 on a 1 on 1 tourney I'd probably take LBJ over Russ too.

If I was building a team and needed to win and had all the scoring in the world, the choice of Russ is a no-brainer.

He basically says that in his comments.

 

[rochrist]

I wouldn't venture to guess many. LeBron being compared to Jordan is a disservice to Jordan. LeBron's best comparison, IMO, is Magic. And, even then, I'd probably take Magic when the stakes are high over LeBron.

Remember in Magic's rookie year, Kareem went out in the finals in game 5, so in game 6, Magic (the PG) started at center, ended up playing all 5 positions, and had 42 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists to lead them to the title. Magic was the antithesis of LeBron.

 

[rochrist]

These are all team accomplishments. Russell played with an AVERAGE of 3 HOFers per year. There was no free agency. Russ had a very limited offensive game. Since when does offense not matter? He averaged 12.6 ppg after the league widened the key in the middle of his career.

You're an idiot.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

What is that going to do? Show him how much Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love suck on defense? How he doesn't have a jump shot to speak of (much less confidence in it)? How Cleveland doesn't have a coach? How he checked out in the third quarter again?

I'm serious when I ask whether or not people think he's leaving again if the Cavs get swept or if they lose.

Gee, I wonder why that is. . . .

 

[letekro]

You describe him as a guy who couldn't play offense and was good because he played against 6'7 white guys. You are being a ****, period just like you were with your idiotic phone crap with deflategate, pretending missing texts to Jimmy Garrapolo were the key to Bradys guilt or innocence. you are going out of your way to start fights, I.e... You are behaving like a troll..

Not at all. Those that read and had the capacity to understand my posts were able to engage in thoughtful discourse. That would exclude you. The 6 7 white guy comment was of course an exaggeration to point out that players were shorter and less athletic back then, certainly when compared to those that could hold their own today like Russell and Wilt. I mean Clyde Lovellete was making all star games at the center position back then. No question, Bellamy, Thurmond, Russell, and Wilt were legit big men but they were outliers.

 

[Kontradiction]

Remember in Magic's rookie year, Kareem went out in the finals in game 5, so in game 6, Magic (the PG) started at center, ended up playing all 5 positions, and had 42 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists to lead them to the title. Magic was the antithesis of LeBron.

I was speaking in more of a sense of each player's strengths. Both are excellent facilitators and both are good at getting their teams involved. Both are very good at slashing and scoring in the paint. LeBron has the edge on Magic when it comes to defense and Magic has the edge on LeBron when it comes to shooting and, of course, being clutch.

 

[Ivan]

Not at all. Those that read and had the capacity to understand my posts were able to engage in thoughtful discourse. That would exclude you. The 6 7 white guy comment was of course an exaggeration to point out that players were shorter and less athletic back then, certainly when compared to those that could hold their own today like Russell and Wilt. I mean Clyde Lovellete was making all star games at the center position back then. No question, Bellamy, Thurmond, Russell, and Wilt were legit big men but they were outliers.

Whatever douchebag, i have had enough of the troll act.

 

[letekro]

You're an idiot.

You lash out when confronted with an opinion (Russell was not very good offensively) that is backed up by facts (44% FG, 12.6 ppg game with the wide key). The counter is team accomplishments, when he was surrounded by Hall of Famers in a pre-fee agency time period. I trust the old timers who say he was really really good. But even they are not suggesting he was great on offense.

 

[letekro]

Whatever douchebag, i have had enough of the troll act.

You might be happier if you limit your engagements to those who share your exact viewpoint.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

You're kidding, I hope. Of course Mr. 1-8 in the NBA finals is going to defend James.

not kidding. both west and bron are all time greats. just getting there is an achievement. better team always wins in a 7 game series. and even though west went 1-8, it ain't his fault. check his stats. dude balled in finals.

bron will get there more. 1 more chip would cement his legacy as a top 5 all time IMO. overall body of work is already too great. cavs are losing to 73-9 one of the all time great team. no shame in that.

oh by the way, i'm from michigan. i hate the cavs.

 

[letekro]

not kidding. both west and bron are all time greats. just getting there is an achievement. better team always wins in a 7 game series. and even though west went 1-8, it ain't his fault. check his stats. dude balled in finals.

bron will get there more. 1 more chip would cement his legacy as a top 5 all time IMO. overall body of work is already too great. cavs are losing to 73-9 one of the all time great team. no shame in that.

oh by the way, i'm from michigan. i hate the cavs.

The incessant focus on championships to the exclusion of all else is particularly maddening given what we just witnessed in the NFL season and what we are currently witnessing in the finals. It's very simple: The better TEAM wins. It is so intellectually lazy to just count up the rings to determine the better player. It is a factor, but not even close to the whole story.

 

[BobDigital]

Basketball is not like a lot of other spots. If you are the best player on the court you usually win. Full stop. Now other circumstances come into effect too but generally that is the rule. Rarely are you a top 5 player with nothing around you. Some teams have more and some have less around their top guy but generally top guys attract other top guys so it is usually not a problem over a career.

How many truly great players have losing records in the finals? I honestly can not think of any but i am not the worlds biggest basketball fan. So who in the top 10-15 NBA players off all time is under 500 in the finals?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Remember in Magic's rookie year, Kareem went out in the finals in game 5, so in game 6, Magic (the PG) started at center, ended up playing all 5 positions, and had 42 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists to lead them to the title. Magic was the antithesis of LeBron.

Greatest. Clinching. Performance. Ever.

 

[realtime]

Basketball is not like a lot of other spots. If you are the best player on the court you usually win. Full stop. Now other circumstances come into effect too but generally that is the rule. Rarely are you a top 5 player with nothing around you. Some teams have more and some have less around their top guy but generally top guys attract other top guys so it is usually not a problem over a career.

How many truly great players have losing records in the finals? I honestly can not think of any but i am not the worlds biggest basketball fan. So who in the top 10-15 NBA players off all time is under 500 in the finals?

Elgin Baylor
Jerry West
Wilt Chamberlain
LeBron