OT: Boston, G.O.A.T.

[1960Pats]

With the death of Ali it got me to thinking once again about the term "greatest of all time." When I look back at my life it seems that I had the opportunity to root for players on all of my Boston teams that could be considered the GOAT of their sport.

I'll put the players in the order of most GOAT-like first.

NBA - Bill Russell. This one is an absolute no-brainer. He stands alone by a country mile as the greatest basketball player of all time. I'd post his incredible record of success at every level but it would probably give me carpal tunnel to type it all and headaches to people who would read it.

MLB (Hitting) - Ted Williams. Another one that I feel is a no-brainer, but because of the crappy teams he played on and the loaded Yankees he had to compete agaisnt for playoff action, he never had the chance to rack up some MLB titles. Too bad that Ted lost a few seasons to the armed forces and WWII.

MLB (Pitching) - Pedro Martinez. As I look through the important stats that define a pitcher, many of the names pop up in a few places (like Clemens, Koufax, Johnson, Gibson and others) but none of them are ranked high in as many categories as Pedro. He was the most dominant pitcher that I ever saw pitch, and I go back to the 50's.

NFL (QB) - Tom Brady. Although I think some people can try to make a case for Joe Montana over TB12, I think Brady has moved just slightly ahead of Joe. One more SB winning season and it will be another no-brainer.

NHL - Bobby Orr. If he didn't just play defense I can only imagine how much more he could have accomplished statistically. That and the early ending to his career makes him the toughest sell as GOAT, but he's definitely in the discussion.

When I look back and realize that I was within 10 miles of the Garden and Fenway, and less than 40 miles from Foxboro, and that I got to see all of those players and their contemporaries play in person, I feel truly blessed.

 

[signbabybrady]

Love that dirty water! I'm a bit younger but I feel blessed to have watched Pedro, Brady, and Papi live and love looking back at Russell, Orr, and Teddy Ballgame. I am so fortunate to have had season tickets to the Pats and I don't take it for granted I have never missed a home game with Brady as QB and don't plan on missing one. I have witnessed some magical Fenway moments of Papi and Pedro too.

 

[fnordcircle]

ARod > Ted Williams

PROVACATIVE POST

 

[IcyPatriot]

Ted Williams couldn't carry Jeter's jock.

PROVACATIVE POST

Definitely not if one is speaking of getting laid ...
Jeter is definitely a candidate for G.O.A.T is that area for baseball players .. Russell had him beat there.

... as for baseball the game ... well

 

[oldrover]

Ted Williams couldn't carry Jeter's jock.

PROVACATIVE POST

Also... it's provocative.

 

[fnordcircle]

Also... it's provocative.

BRB editing post.

Edit: haha I edited the post to say ARod is better than Ted Williams, suck it Boston rubes

 

[Jackson 2]

With the death of Ali it got me to thinking once again about the term "greatest of all time." When I look back at my life it seems that I had the opportunity to root for players on all of my Boston teams that could be considered the GOAT of their sport.

I'll put the players in the order of most GOAT-like first.

NBA - Bill Russell. This one is an absolute no-brainer. He stands alone by a country mile as the greatest basketball player of all time. I'd post his incredible record of success at every level but it would probably give me carpal tunnel to type it all and headaches to people who would read it.

MLB (Hitting) - Ted Williams. Another one that I feel is a no-brainer, but because of the crappy teams he played on and the loaded Yankees he had to compete agaisnt for playoff action, he never had the chance to rack up some MLB titles. Too bad that Ted lost a few seasons to the armed forces and WWII.

MLB (Pitching) - Pedro Martinez. As I look through the important stats that define a pitcher, many of the names pop up in a few places (like Clemens, Koufax, Johnson, Gibson and others) but none of them are ranked high in as many categories as Pedro. He was the most dominant pitcher that I ever saw pitch, and I go back to the 50's.

NFL (QB) - Tom Brady. Although I think some people can try to make a case for Joe Montana over TB12, I think Brady has moved just slightly ahead of Joe. One more SB winning season and it will be another no-brainer.

NHL - Bobby Orr. If he didn't just play defense I can only imagine how much more he could have accomplished statistically. That and the early ending to his career makes him the toughest sell as GOAT, but he's definitely in the discussion.

When I look back and realize that I was within 10 miles of the Garden and Fenway, and less than 40 miles from Foxboro, and that I got to see all of those players and their contemporaries play in person, I feel truly blessed.

That's a really good analysis. I'm old enough to have seen all of them in person, including Ted who was my boyhood hero. I saw him in person as a young kid 1957-60 at the end of his career. In 1957 and 1958 he won batting championships at the ages of 39 and 40. In '57 he batted an amazing .388, which was about 5 hits shy of .400. With that said, David Ortiz in my mind is the greatest clutch hitter I've ever seen.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Definitely not if one is speaking of getting laid ...
Jeter is definitely a candidate for G.O.A.T is that area for baseball players .. Russell had him beat there.

... as for baseball the game ... well

Does Brady get extra credit in this category for marrying Gisele?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Let's not get carried away.

Russell (yes but Jordan better individual player)

Gretzky (better career and more titles than Orr)

Mays (better player than Ted)

Kofax (better pitcher than Pedro)

Brady but could argue Rice easily.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

With the death of Ali it got me to thinking once again about the term "greatest of all time." When I look back at my life it seems that I had the opportunity to root for players on all of my Boston teams that could be considered the GOAT of their sport.

I'll put the players in the order of most GOAT-like first.

NBA - Bill Russell. This one is an absolute no-brainer. He stands alone by a country mile as the greatest basketball player of all time. I'd post his incredible record of success at every level but it would probably give me carpal tunnel to type it all and headaches to people who would read it.

MLB (Hitting) - Ted Williams. Another one that I feel is a no-brainer, but because of the crappy teams he played on and the loaded Yankees he had to compete agaisnt for playoff action, he never had the chance to rack up some MLB titles. Too bad that Ted lost a few seasons to the armed forces and WWII.

MLB (Pitching) - Pedro Martinez. As I look through the important stats that define a pitcher, many of the names pop up in a few places (like Clemens, Koufax, Johnson, Gibson and others) but none of them are ranked high in as many categories as Pedro. He was the most dominant pitcher that I ever saw pitch, and I go back to the 50's.

NFL (QB) - Tom Brady. Although I think some people can try to make a case for Joe Montana over TB12, I think Brady has moved just slightly ahead of Joe. One more SB winning season and it will be another no-brainer.

NHL - Bobby Orr. If he didn't just play defense I can only imagine how much more he could have accomplished statistically. That and the early ending to his career makes him the toughest sell as GOAT, but he's definitely in the discussion.

When I look back and realize that I was within 10 miles of the Garden and Fenway, and less than 40 miles from Foxboro, and that I got to see all of those players and their contemporaries play in person, I feel truly blessed.

Right On! Except you left out NFL (OL) - John Hannah. The last person on Earth you ever want to be lined up against, and he wasn't even dirty. Pats emphasized the run and set records, mainly because of him.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

i love bill russell, but Jordan is consensus GOAT. not even debatable.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Let's not get carried away.

Russell (yes but Jordan better individual player)

Gretzky (better career and more titles than Orr)

Mays (better player than Ted)

Kofax (better pitcher than Pedro)

Brady but could argue Rice easily.

Thank you for your input...but, guessing you never saw Orr play. And, got a huge laugh this morning when it was mentioned on the radio that Michael Jordan was selected somehow as the "Athlete of the Century." First of all, MJ might be in the top 20 basketball players ever. Maybe. But he'd be lucky to crack the top 200 Greatest Athletes of the Twentieth Century. Sorry, he's simply not that good. I can rattle off 100 better right off the top of my head...but again no disrespect and thanks for your thoughts, keep it up!

 

[wolverinejoe80]

Thank you for your input...but, guessing you never saw Orr play. And, got a huge laugh this morning when it was mentioned on the radio that Michael Jordan was selected somehow as the "Athlete of the Century." First of all, MJ might be in the top 20 basketball players ever. Maybe. But he'd be lucky to crack the top 200 Greatest Athletes of the Twentieth Century. Sorry, he's simply not that good. I can rattle off 100 better right off the top of my head...but again no disrespect and thanks for your thoughts, keep it up!

name me 19 basketball players who were better than MJ.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Thank you for your input...but, guessing you never saw Orr play.

I go back far enough. I also played. I'll assume you have a similar level of authority on the topic.

Orr was GoAT defenseman no question but was not Gretzky.

And, got a huge laugh this morning when it was mentioned on the radio that Michael Jordan was selected somehow as the "Athlete of the Century." First of all, MJ might be in the top 20 basketball players ever. Maybe. But he'd be lucky to crack the top 200 Greatest Athletes of the Twentieth Century. Sorry, he's simply not that good. I can rattle off 100 better right off the top of my head...but again no disrespect and thanks for your thoughts, keep it up!

There is no might....Jordan is in the top 20, top 10 and top 5. You must be trying to just debate for the hell of it.

 

[Love The Drake]

name me 19 basketball players who were better than MJ.

You cant on good faith even name 5
3 is highly debatable

 

[scout]

Let's not get carried away.

Russell (yes but Jordan better individual player)

Gretzky (better career and more titles than Orr)

Mays (better player than Ted)

Kofax (better pitcher than Pedro)

Brady but could argue Rice easily.

Tommy Heinsohn said Russell averaged 7 blocks per game. Red said 9 out of 10 of Russell's blocks went to Celtics. How much intimidation was that? How many shots were forced or didn't have a chance? Russell also jumped his height. Jordan was probably better, but Russell gets forgotten.

Gretzky scored a lot and won more titles.....However, he didn't change the game.

Mays was a better player, but not hitter.

Pedro had the greatest all-time game (recent publication). Also, Koufax pitched with a mound that had not been cut down.

Jerry Rice? No.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You cant on good faith even name 5
3 is highly debatable

I love this debate because there is no right answer.

I put Russell ahead of MJ because he was A) the MJ of defense, an excellent passer and the GoAT rebounder in history and B) To win 11 championships in 13 years is incomprehensible. You can't quantify it statistically. You just have to believe that the man figured out how to win games and championships at a level that 99.9999% of the players in NBA never could. Jordan got close. Then Magic/Larry and Jabbar.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

Tommy Heinsohn said Russell averaged 7 blocks per game. Red said 9 out of 10 of Russell's blocks went to Celtics. How much intimidation was that? How many shots were forced or didn't have a chance? Russell also jumped his height. Jordan was probably better, but Russell gets forgotten.

Gretzky scored a lot and won more titles.....However, he didn't change the game.

Mays was a better player, but not hitter.

Pedro had the greatest all-time game (recent publication). Also, Koufax pitched with a mound that had not been cut down.

Jerry Rice? No.

MJ is the GOAT. IMO, russell ain't even GOAT in boston.

bird > russell any time any day.

high jump = / = max vert.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

I love this debate because there is no right answer.

I put Russell ahead of MJ because he was A) the MJ of defense, an excellent passer and the GoAT rebounder in history and B) To win 11 championships in 13 years is incomprehensible. You can't quantify it statistically. You just have to believe that the man figured out how to win games and championships at a level that 99.9999% of the players in NBA never could. Jordan got close. Then Magic/Larry and Jabbar.

it's comprehensible. 60's nba had 8 to 12 teams. celtics happened to have the best team every year and the greatest coach was light years ahead of other coaches. honestly it's like playing bunch of bad buffalo bills every year to the championship. objectively speaking MJ was just a better basketball player than russell ever was. just watch them play. watch some old 60's footage. MJ would literally avg 60-70 pts every season in that era. not joking.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Tommy Heinsohn said Russell averaged 7 blocks per game. Red said 9 out of 10 of Russell's blocks went to Celtics. How much intimidation was that? How many shots were forced or didn't have a chance? Russell also jumped his height. Jordan was probably better, but Russell gets forgotten.

Agreed

Gretzky scored a lot and won more titles.....However, he didn't change the game..

Gretzky didn't change hockey? C'mon.

Mays was a better player, but not hitter.

Yes

Pedro had the greatest all-time game (recent publication). Also, Koufax pitched with a mound that had not been cut down.

So a higher mound is a knock vs Koufax? During their prime years Pedro played in the most prolific offensive period in history so he absolutely is in the discussion. I put Kofax a notch above for more IP, Ks and playoff success.

Jerry Rice? No.

Yes to your no. If Brady gets to 5 SBs...